Brad Treliving is doing a great job.

[Ports]

Cost is at least a legitimate reason to not like a trade. I would have preferred not spending as much on him. Of course, we also know from the behind the scenes footage that multiple teams were offering 1sts for Foligno, because he was one of the most coveted players that deadline. I'm not sure where you got your perceptions of these players, but we could start with the fact that Noesen isn't even a defenseman. FYI, calling the former GM childish names really just reflects poorly on you and takes away from your argument.

Lol. Even for just the Leafs specifically, he's the best GM we've had in decades.

Dubas biggest problem was he built a team that was way too easy to defend in the playoffs and had no pushback. He put all his eggs in four baskets and didn’t augment those players with the support cast they needed. He would try to velcro toughness to his soft core every deadline but they never built enough team chemistry to jell together and then he let those players walk away for nothing.

Cost is at least a legitimate reason to not like a trade. I would have preferred not spending as much on him. Of course, we also know from the behind the scenes footage that multiple teams were offering 1sts for Foligno, because he was one of the most coveted players that deadline. I'm not sure where you got your perceptions of these players, but we could start with the fact that Noesen isn't even a defenseman. FYI, calling the former GM childish names really just reflects poorly on you and takes away from your argument.

Lol. Even for just the Leafs specifically, he's the best GM we've had in decades.

Definitely not better than Quinn or Fletcher who each built teams that went to the Conference finals twice. Better than JFJ and Burke, I’ll give you that.

 

[Ports]

I really like what he has done with this team
Klingberg the only regret.
He forced Keefe to use Holmberg McMann and Robertson by not trading for a forward at the deadline.

And they could have used Klingberg on the PP right now. Not sure how much they could have played him 5v5 though.

 

[Gabriel426]

I think that's incorrect. Konecny and Aho were more fan favorite picks at the time of the draft as an OHL star and a more progressive Euro skill player, and Dermrott was a bit of a darkhorse, but not a big deal since the Leafs were sniffing around home run swing type picks like Timashov, Bracco, Korostelev, Dzierkals, etc in the 2015 and 2016 drafts anyway.

At the time, Dermott was the 1D defenseman on the Erie Otters with Connor McDavid and Dylan Strome, and the Leafs trading down twice to get him seemed to indicate maybe they had something special like a Letang or Subban type guy, but don't think there was any draft day controversy since the regime was brand new and who could have known how dumb of a sequence that whole thing turned out to be.

That Dermott pick still hurts. Not so much of Aho and Konecny but more on Carlo. That’s big physical RHD.

 

[Stephen]

That Dermott pick still hurts. Not so much of Aho and Konecny but more on Carlo. That’s big physical RHD.

It’s funny. The Leafs spent a lot of time drafting those not big, swift skating, decent skillset type defensemen who see the game well but are neither defensive specialists or offensively impactful. Like they were cornering some market inefficiency. And so many years down the road you realize why you don’t really want too many of these guys clogging up a blueline.

 

[Dekes For Days]

That's not the praise you think it it is.

I agree that that statement is not even big praise, and it shouldn't be a matter of contention. The fact that some people can't even acknowledge that bare minimum, and legitimately think that he is "easily the worst GM in the history of hockey", is concerning.

Treliving’s competence was called into question by a lot of Dubas people like Jonas Siegel when he suffered a season ending injury and went on the LTIR…

I assume you're talking about Klingberg? Treliving's competence was called into question because he signed Klingberg for 4.15m and expected him to fill a spot in the top-4 after years of injuries drastically reducing his effectiveness, not because Klingberg got injured while with us. Klingberg getting injured saved Treliving.

Then you remember the fact that Dubas had always been fairly poor with managing injured players. Such as the Foligno deal which you seem to be in complete denial about. And that wouldn’t be such a unique case when you look at the fact he traded for Matt Murray, who was coming off a big injury when we got him from Ottawa. Or that we traded for Riley Nash, who was injured when we got him and was never healthy to do anything. Or the fact that he knew Jake Muzzin was completely done but didn’t manage his situation until the first day of fitness testing when he hurt himself. And then suffered a career ender 4 games into last season.

The only one in "denial" about the Foligno deal here is you. The simple fact is, he was healthy when he joined us, and he got a debilitating injury that he had never before experienced on May 3rd, which negatively impacted his effectiveness throughout the rest of his time with us. We saw it with our own eyes - as it happened and behind the scenes - and it's been confirmed by everybody involved, including explicitly by the person it actually happened to. Everything else is conspiracy theories.

And none of your examples show "poor management of injured players", or anything related to Foligno, who didn't have a concerning injury history and hadn't missed any games that season prior to that one. Muzzin was not done. He was coming off an excellent playoffs, and the fluke career-ending cervical spine injury he suffered early last season had nothing to do with any injury history. Yes, Murray did have an injury history, but that injury risk was known and factored in, and why we got retention and got paid to take him. Nash was acquired specifically BECAUSE he was going to be injured through the rest of the regular season. That was why he cost next to nothing, and it let us add him as depth for the playoffs (which he did play in, for the record) without cap impacts. That's literally an example of good management of injured players.

 

[acrobaticgoalie]

This would be the first I've heard of that, it also seems unlikely. Do you have a source?

Me too. The only thing I remember hearing was that Babcock wanted a D man because he didn't get his way with the 4th overall pick.

 

[Stephen]

I agree that that statement is not even big praise, and it shouldn't be a matter of contention. The fact that some people can't even acknowledge that bare minimum, and legitimately think that he is "easily the worst GM in the history of hockey", is concerning.

I assume you're talking about Klingberg? Treliving's competence was called into question because he signed Klingberg for 4.15m and expected him to fill a spot in the top-4 after years of injuries drastically reducing his effectiveness, not because Klingberg got injured while with us. Klingberg getting injured saved Treliving.

The only one in "denial" about the Foligno deal here is you. The simple fact is, he was healthy when he joined us, and he got a debilitating injury that he had never before experienced on May 3rd, which negatively impacted his effectiveness throughout the rest of his time with us. We saw it with our own eyes - as it happened and behind the scenes - and it's been confirmed by everybody involved, including explicitly by the person it actually happened to. Everything else is conspiracy theories.

And none of your examples show "poor management of injured players", or anything related to Foligno, who didn't have a concerning injury history and hadn't missed any games that season prior to that one. Muzzin was not done. He was coming off an excellent playoffs, and the fluke career-ending cervical spine injury he suffered early last season had nothing to do with any injury history. Yes, Murray did have an injury history, but that injury risk was known and factored in, and why we got retention and got paid to take him. Nash was acquired specifically BECAUSE he was going to be injured through the rest of the regular season. That was why he cost next to nothing, and it let us add him as depth for the playoffs (which he did play in, for the record) without cap impacts. That's literally an example of good management of injured players.

Dekes, most of us don't really care. Nick Foligno was a failed experiment. We got humiliated in the Montreal series. The GM who acquired him was fired, and is now knee deep in crap in another organization far away from us with his trusty followers in tow. No one cares about Babcock either. And we don't care about Lou. At the end of the day, People just like pissing and moaning about the bad old days.

Treliving has had his ups and downs, but mostly it's a breath of fresh air.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

When you look at all off the mistakes Kyle Dumbass made - - lopsided rip off trades, brutal overpaid free agents, horrible drafting - - he’s much worse than Ferguson Jr and Gord Stellick.

When Mark Hunter was the assistant GM to Lamorielo, Hunter had the ultimate source of scouting intel from his brother in London. This is why Hunter pushed so hard for Toronto to draft Mitch Marner in 2015.

Unfortunately for Toronto, their scouts all wanted to take Sebastian Aho in the 2nd round, but Dumbass pushed hard for Travis Dermott. Even though everyone else recommended Aho, Shanahan sided with Dumbass - - presumably, because he wanted to give his other assistant GM authority over the 2nd round pick just as he had given Hunter authority over the 1st round pick.

This was an early indication that Kyle Dumbass has ZERO ability to evaluate players.

I had actually had heard it the, other way around, that Dubas wanted Aho, but they went with Dermott because they already had picked Marner.

They could have had Marner, Konecy and Aho, it Would have gone down as arguably the greatest draft in franchise history.

Hell even just Marner and Aho.

Instead we get Marner and Dermott, Dermott worked out to a point because he is an NHL regular but it's not the same

 

[weems]

That 2nd round of the 2015 draft was stacked

Aho #35
Carlo #37
Hintz #49
Rasmus Andersson #53
Vince Dunn #56

Add in guys like Cernak, Sprong, Trenin, Siegenthaler etc and so much talent was drafted in that second round.

 

[Gabriel426]

It’s funny. The Leafs spent a lot of time drafting those not big, swift skating, decent skillset type defensemen who see the game well but are neither defensive specialists or offensively impactful. Like they were cornering some market inefficiency. And so many years down the road you realize why you don’t really want too many of these guys clogging up a blueline.

Yep. I know some like to think it was Hunter draft picks and not Dubas. BUT I do find the direction for drafting during those years were really trying to find players whom they think are being over looked by other teams. Just so happened they didn't get any Point, and Cirelli. And most of those picks were just like any other draft picks that just didnt even end up with a ELC contract.

Mods, can we please start to delete irrelevant Dubasite posts that contribute nothing but drag down every thread?

Or at least give them their own thread to pander to their hero and let the rest of us get on with the here and now.

Thanks

Or we can just collectively put them on ignore, lol.

 

[LeafSteel]

Yep. I know some like to think it was Hunter draft picks and not Dubas. BUT I do find the direction for drafting during those years were really trying to find players whom they think are being over looked by other teams. Just so happened they didn't get any Point, and Cirelli. And most of those picks were just like any other draft picks that just didnt even end up with a ELC contract.


Or we can just collectively put them on ignore, lol.

Pretty sure the rest of us have posts deleted that are irrelevant to the topic at hand, or stop when a Mod asks us to move on from a topic. Some people appear unable to follow those simple instructions.

Ignoring makes the threads confusing to follow.

Tired of giving platforms for one-dimensional posters who never have anything relevant to add but always have the most to say…….. for Daze…….

 

[thewave]

Dekes, most of us don't really care. Nick Foligno was a failed experiment. We got humiliated in the Montreal series. The GM who acquired him was fired, and is now knee deep in crap in another organization far away from us with his trusty followers in tow. No one cares about Babcock either. And we don't care about Lou. At the end of the day, People just like pissing and moaning about the bad old days.

Treliving has had his ups and downs, but mostly it's a breath of fresh air.

He gave us a spine. The Dubas years are marked by a spineless culture. So far we have some character.

Getting a character player at the deadline is different than a team that grows with character players.

Dubas and his fans never got that.

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

When you look at all off the mistakes Kyle Dumbass made - - lopsided rip off trades, brutal overpaid free agents, horrible drafting - - he’s much worse than Ferguson Jr and Gord Stellick.

When Mark Hunter was the assistant GM to Lamorielo, Hunter had the ultimate source of scouting intel from his brother in London. This is why Hunter pushed so hard for Toronto to draft Mitch Marner in 2015.

Unfortunately for Toronto, their scouts all wanted to take Sebastian Aho in the 2nd round, but Dumbass pushed hard for Travis Dermott. Even though everyone else recommended Aho, Shanahan sided with Dumbass - - presumably, because he wanted to give his other assistant GM authority over the 2nd round pick just as he had given Hunter authority over the 1st round pick.

This was an early indication that Kyle Dumbass has ZERO ability to evaluate players.

My understanding was that because Dubas sided with Hunter on Marner over Hanifin he was given the second of the first round picks that year to draft someone.

Hunter was the head of scouting and used the first one on Marner. The second was assigned to Dubas who traded down from the Konecny pick to draft three duds in Dermott, Bracco, and Dzierkals. Aho wasn't high on many people's list because he was relatively unheard of until the WJC that year where he was a standout but otherwise never showed any real promise previously.

This is the first I've ever heard anything about the Leafs having any interest in him.

The 2015 draft is gonna go down as one of the best ever. Other than Marner the Leafs whiffed pretty large. Hunter and Dubas both share the blame for that.

Other than the obvious "can't miss" top picks neither one of them could draft worth a damn.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Dubas is easily the worst GM in the history of hockey.

I wouldn't go that far, but he's easily the worst Leafs GM since JFJ.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Seems more a case of being wrong about something for so long that there is no turning back now.

I’ll be glad once Dubas is no longer a topic and the new GM is solely responsible for the product we see.

If we win the Cup ten years from now and the only current Leaf still playing is Timmins, he'll still say it's all thanks to Dubas.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

It’s funny. The Leafs spent a lot of time drafting those not big, swift skating, decent skillset type defensemen who see the game well but are neither defensive specialists or offensively impactful. Like they were cornering some market inefficiency. And so many years down the road you realize why you don’t really want too many of these guys clogging up a blueline.

I agree. People point out that Benoit only has 5pts etc...but you know what? He can defend very well, which is not something we were getting from the "In-Betweeners" that the organization loved for so many years (Holl, Dermott and Sandin). The "Meh" offense to go along with the "Meh" defense is not something that did our team any favors in the playoffs.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Seems more a case of being wrong about something for so long that there is no turning back now.

I’ll be glad once Dubas is no longer a topic and the new GM is solely responsible for the product we see.

You will be waiting a long time.

 

[PromisedLand]

LMAO at Dubas

This is what a REAL GM looks like

 

[sxvnert]

Looking forward to next season (24/25):

Forwards

1) Matthews $13,250,000   
2) Nylander $11,500,000
3) Tavares $11,000,000
4) Marner $10,903,000
4) Bertuzzi $5,000,000
5) Domi $4,000,000
6) Kämpf $2,400,000
7) Järnkrok $2,100,000
8) Reaves $1,350,000
9) McMann $1,350,000
10) Dewar $1,250,000
11) Knies $925,000
12) Holmberg $800,000
13)
TOTAL: $65,828,000

Defence

1) Rielly (LD) $7,500,000
2) RHD
3) McCabe (RD) $2,000,000
4) Edmundson (LD) $2,000,000
5) Lyubushkin (RD) $2,000,000
6) Benoit (LD) $1,350,000
7) Timmins (RD) $1,100,000
TOTAL: $15.95

Goaltenders

1) Woll $766,667
2)
TOTAL: $766,667

GRAND TOTAL: $82,544,667
CAP: $87,500,000
-$4,955,333

Finding a way to dump Tavares @ 50% would add another 5.5M to the cap to allow Tre to bring in a top RD, decent 2 & 3 centers, and spend a few bucks on a 1A/B goaltender to play with Woll.

 

[Peasy]

Think I'm more confident in this years roster going into the playoffs than lasts years roster even though you can argue it looks worse on paper and we will likely finish with less points in the regular season.

We actually finally have some bite and push back, and its not just coming from a single 4th line enforcer.

 

[Martin Skoula]

My understanding was that because Dubas sided with Hunter on Marner over Hanifin he was given the second of the first round picks that year to draft someone.

Hunter was the head of scouting and used the first one on Marner. The second was assigned to Dubas who traded down from the Konecny pick to draft three duds in Dermott, Bracco, and Dzierkals. Aho wasn't high on many people's list because he was relatively unheard of until the WJC that year where he was a standout but otherwise never showed any real promise previously.

This is the first I've ever heard anything about the Leafs having any interest in him.

The 2015 draft is gonna go down as one of the best ever. Other than Marner the Leafs whiffed pretty large. Hunter and Dubas both share the blame for that.

Other than the obvious "can't miss" top picks neither one of them could draft worth a damn.

I distinctly remember rumours about us liking Aho before the draft, I think we were also linked to targeting one of Rantanen/Provorov in that trade-down scenario with Columbus (4 for 8, 34, and 38). Aho is the prototypical undersized intelligent high work rate waterbug Dubas overfocused. I would assume if we do the Columbus trade they don’t get cute with the Konecny pick. Could have been a draft on par with McDonagh Pacioretty Subban in 2007 for MTL.

 

[IPS]

Honestly makes wanna puke that we drafted dermott instead of aho. Dubas was legitimately terrible at drafting yet got made out as some drafting genius for some benign reason.

 

[ACC1224]

Honestly makes wanna puke that we drafted dermott instead of aho. Dubas was legitimately terrible at drafting yet got made out as some drafting genius for some benign reason.

I think most people lay that one at Hunters feet.

 

[Pebble live]

I think most people lay that one at Hunters feet.

GM makes the final call at the end of the day. That's where the buck stops. I'd have loved to be a fly on the wall for those conversations though.

 

[Peasy]

Honestly makes wanna puke that we drafted dermott instead of aho. Dubas was legitimately terrible at drafting yet got made out as some drafting genius for some benign reason.

We went from god awful drafting for years (like near worse in the league) to probably around average. That change probably is making people build him up more than he actually was. Still no where near a great drafting team like the Canes or Stars. But the improvement is welcomed.