Brad Treliving is doing a great job.

[thewave]

He is doing well. Other than not firing Keefe.

 

[LeafEgo]

Again, I'm not one to put full stock into advanced stats and don't think they are the be all, end all.

I highly doubt GMs will only look at the stat sheet and think someone like Gardiner is incredible. They can see watching the games that he was prone to brain farts but also see that he was really good at possessing the puck the majority of the time and then the advanced stats would back that up.

My point is that if you're evaluating 2 equivalent players, they might defer to the one who shows a tendency to keep the play going longer or when it comes to goalies, they might go with the one who comes up with a save in high danger areas over one that doesn't as much.

High danger can't be captured in a material way. The number of simulations available can't overcome the variables to make it very useful, which is the issue generally with advanced stats today, and why they don't have demonstrable predictive value.

There will be a time when advanced stats are useful, but at this point you're still better off consulting the goalie coach, or on a hockey forum, leaning on knowledge and experience.

JFresh cards are scammy.

 

[Dekes For Days]

it's been proven a few times that we traded for an injured Nick Foligno already.

That has never been proven. The only thing proven is that a couple sites listed his absence from the pre-deadline game as an undisclosed day-to-day injury. We don't know if he was actually injured or if it was protecting the asset, and if he was injured, we don't know what it was beyond it being minor, and we don't know whether he healed up prior to the trade. Either way it's irrelevant, because we traded for Nick Foligno to play games with us when he came out of his quarantine starting April 22nd, and on April 22nd, we got a fully healthy Foligno.

Things we actually know? He was given the option to take it slow coming out of the extended quarantine. He said that no, he was fully ready to go. He played great for us from the day he joined us until his injury on May 3rd. We all saw it happen. We all saw the behind the scenes of it happening. We all saw him struggle after that point. We have Foligno explicitly saying that that injury was brand new, debilitating, and something he had never experienced before.

So whether the undisclosed day-to-day injury before he was traded and weeks before he was even eligible to play for us was real is really kind of missing the point. And to say that we traded for an injured Foligno - true on a technicality or not - really fails to capture what actually happened. We traded for somebody that joined us at the earliest possible date healthy, and he experienced an injury with us that severely decreased his effectiveness. It sucks that we didn't get the true Foligno, but injuries aren't anybody's fault. We've had a ton of injuries and sickness this season, and it would be equally wrong to blame that on Treliving.

 

[Donnie740]

That has never been proven. The only thing proven is that a couple sites listed his absence from the pre-deadline game as an undisclosed day-to-day injury. We don't know if he was actually injured or if it was protecting the asset, and if he was injured, we don't know what it was beyond it being minor, and we don't know whether he healed up prior to the trade. Either way it's irrelevant, because we traded for Nick Foligno to play games with us when he came out of his quarantine starting April 22nd, and on April 22nd, we got a fully healthy Foligno.

Things we actually know? He was given the option to take it slow coming out of the extended quarantine. He said that no, he was fully ready to go. He played great for us from the day he joined us until his injury on May 3rd. We all saw it happen. We all saw the behind the scenes of it happening. We all saw him struggle after that point. We have Foligno explicitly saying that that injury was brand new, debilitating, and something he had never experienced before.

So whether the undisclosed day-to-day injury before he was traded and weeks before he was even eligible to play for us was real is really kind of missing the point. And to say that we traded for an injured Foligno - true on a technicality or not - really fails to capture what actually happened. We traded for somebody that joined us at the earliest possible date healthy, and he experienced an injury with us that severely decreased his effectiveness. It sucks that we didn't get the true Foligno, but injuries aren't anybody's fault. We've had a ton of injuries and sickness this season, and it would be equally wrong to blame that on Treliving.

Regardless of whether Foligno was 100% healthy or not, giving away a 1st and two 4th round picks for a 3rd line hack like Foligno and a no-talent scrub defenseman like Stef Noesen was yet another horrifically brutal trade by Kyle Dubas.

Almost as embarrassing as giving away a 3rd round pick for Dave The Save Rittich.

Dubas is easily the worst GM in the history of hockey.

 

[Punch Drunk Loov]

If there was an exercise to grade Dubas' trades one by one we are definitely the ones giving up more value (losing) most of the trades. I don't think you can even say that this is what happens to buyers because he made non-deadline trades that were also terrible.

 

[hullsy47]

Regardless of whether Foligno was 100% healthy or not, giving away a 1st and two 4th round picks for a 3rd line hack like Foligno and a no-talent scrub defenseman like Stef Noesen was yet another horrifically brutal trade by Kyle Dumbass.

Almost as embarrassing as giving away a 3rd round pick for Dave The Save Rittich.

Dumbass is easily the worst GM in the history of hockey.

Dubas was average at best .he ll get better I assume
Likely learn that u need proper balance to win In the playoffs
He ll learn goaltending depth and overpaying isn't good
He ll learn to stud mobile defenceman have to be part of your core 4
Even if it cost u an elite forward

 

[Dekes For Days]

Regardless of whether Foligno was 100% healthy or not, giving away a 1st and two 4th round picks for a 3rd line hack like Foligno and a no-talent scrub defenseman like Stef Noesen was yet another horrifically brutal trade by Kyle Dumbass.

Cost is at least a legitimate reason to not like a trade. I would have preferred not spending as much on him. Of course, we also know from the behind the scenes footage that multiple teams were offering 1sts for Foligno, because he was one of the most coveted players that deadline. I'm not sure where you got your perceptions of these players, but we could start with the fact that Noesen isn't even a defenseman. FYI, calling the former GM childish names really just reflects poorly on you and takes away from your argument.

Dumbass is easily the worst GM in the history of hockey.

Lol. Even for just the Leafs specifically, he's the best GM we've had in decades.

 

[Havoc]

Lol. Even for just the Leafs specifically, he's the best GM we've had in decades.

We all wish we had a friend that is as loyal to us the way Dekes is loyal to Dubas. No matter how much dumb stuff we do, we know they have our back.

 

[ACC1224]

We all wish we had a friend that is as loyal to us the way Dekes is loyal to Dubas. No matter how much dumb stuff we do, we know they have our back.

Seems more a case of being wrong about something for so long that there is no turning back now.

I’ll be glad once Dubas is no longer a topic and the new GM is solely responsible for the product we see.

 

[Dekes For Days]

We all wish we had a friend that is as loyal to us the way Dekes is loyal to Dubas.

I'm loyal to the Leafs, which is what everybody here should be. The fact that you think him being a better GM than the straight trash we've had otherwise for decades is a more egregious take than him being "easily the worst GM in the history of hockey" really says it all.

 

[ToneDog]

Regardless of whether Foligno was 100% healthy or not, giving away a 1st and two 4th round picks for a 3rd line hack like Foligno and a no-talent scrub defenseman like Stef Noesen was yet another horrifically brutal trade by Kyle Dumbass.

Almost as embarrassing as giving away a 3rd round pick for Dave The Save Rittich.

Dumbass is easily the worst GM in the history of hockey.

Noesen is a forward and is currently playing for the Canes. He actually had value but probably played 1 game for the Leafs. Dubas f***ed that up as well. LOL.

 

[All Mod Cons]

Dubas was average at best .he ll get better I assume
Likely learn that u need proper balance to win In the playoffs
He ll learn goaltending depth and overpaying isn't good
He ll learn to stud mobile defenceman have to be part of your core 4
Even if it cost u an elite forward

How does a guy get to the position he got to, not knowing these things? There really should be a documentary showing how he pulled the wool over this organization's eyes.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Yes, no congratulations have been earned.

Leafs are having a worse year, but the playoffs are his opportunity to indicate if he's moved the team forward, or as I suggested in another thread, this is his gap year where nothing matters.

I don't agree that nothing matters but I do see this coming off season as his chance to put his stamp on this team, because this time he's not coming in 5 weeks before the draft.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Regardless of whether Foligno was 100% healthy or not, giving away a 1st and two 4th round picks for a 3rd line hack like Foligno and a no-talent scrub defenseman like Stef Noesen was yet another horrifically brutal trade by Kyle Dumbass.

Almost as embarrassing as giving away a 3rd round pick for Dave The Save Rittich.

Dumbass is easily the worst GM in the history of hockey.

Both JFJ and Mike Milbury exist

 

[ToneDog]

How does a guy get to the position he got to, not knowing these things? There really should be a documentary showing how he pulled the wool over this organization's eyes.

I'd say he did even better pulling the wool over the Pens' eyes. Seriously, WTF were they thinking, especially after the bullshit he pulled at his last presser and the PP he pulled on Shanny, a day or two later.

His "if it is not the Leafs, you won't see me looking elsewhere" kind of reminds me of Bill Clinton, "I did not have sex with that girl". LOL.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Cost is at least a legitimate reason to not like a trade. I would have preferred not spending as much on him. Of course, we also know from the behind the scenes footage that multiple teams were offering 1sts for Foligno, because he was one of the most coveted players that deadline. I'm not sure where you got your perceptions of these players, but we could start with the fact that Noesen isn't even a defenseman. FYI, calling the former GM childish names really just reflects poorly on you and takes away from your argument.

Lol. Even for just the Leafs specifically, he's the best GM we've had in decades.

That's not the praise you think it it is.

A dog would have been a better GM than some of the GM's we have haf specifically JFJ.

A dog could not have been worse than JFJ because the dog wouldn't have traded Rask for Raycroft.

Or the picks that Lars Eller and eventually Logan Coture for Toskala and Mark Bell.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

It's early days in his tenure so far I'm more confident in Treliving than I ever was in Dubas.

Cowan looks like a gme.

Bobby Mac and Benoit signed to bargain extensions.

Matthews and Nylander here long-term

So far So good from Treliving.

 

[horner]

I really like what he has done with this team
Klingberg the only regret.
He forced Keefe to use Holmberg McMann and Robertson by not trading for a forward at the deadline.

 

[Canadian Finn]

It sounds like you just don't understand the point of these advanced stats. I'm not even one to post advanced stats but I at least have somewhat an understanding as to why they're used and think it's ignorant to just downright dismiss them.

They are just extra tools to help evaluate players and can even help make a decision between 2 similar players as to who might have more benefits.

When talking about expected stats when it comes to goalies for example. If they show that a particular goalie on a bad team is making saves from high danger spots that a goalie who plays on a good team isnt, it is extra information that teams can use to evaluate when deciding who they might go with in UFA in addition to just going by sv%, as well as using the eye test. They might help show that the goalie who has a higher sv% on a good team might just have his sv% inflated by being behind better players and structure. Like Jonathan Quick for example. Had an .876sv% on LA and then goes to a better team in Vegas and puts up a .901sv%. His numbers were propped up by a better team but he was still the same goalie.

alternate stats.

not advanced.

nothing advanced about them.

alternate stats, and nothing more.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

I really like what he has done with this team
Klingberg the only regret.
He forced Keefe to use Holmberg McMann and Robertson by not trading for a forward at the deadline.

He did trade for a forward though.

 

[Stephen]

alternate stats.

not advanced.

nothing advanced about them.

alternate stats, and nothing more.

Or “additional/supplementary” stats.

 

[Donnie740]

That's not the praise you think it it is.

A dog would have been a better GM than some of the GM's we have haf specifically JFJ.

A dog could not have been worse than JFJ because the dog wouldn't have traded Rask for Raycroft.

Or the picks that Lars Eller and eventually Logan Coture for Toskala and Mark Bell.

When you look at all off the mistakes Kyle Dumbass made - - lopsided rip off trades, brutal overpaid free agents, horrible drafting - - he’s much worse than Ferguson Jr and Gord Stellick.

When Mark Hunter was the assistant GM to Lamorielo, Hunter had the ultimate source of scouting intel from his brother in London. This is why Hunter pushed so hard for Toronto to draft Mitch Marner in 2015.

Unfortunately for Toronto, their scouts all wanted to take Sebastian Aho in the 2nd round, but Dumbass pushed hard for Travis Dermott. Even though everyone else recommended Aho, Shanahan sided with Dumbass - - presumably, because he wanted to give his other assistant GM authority over the 2nd round pick just as he had given Hunter authority over the 1st round pick.

This was an early indication that Kyle Dumbass has ZERO ability to evaluate players.

 

[Stephen]

That has never been proven. The only thing proven is that a couple sites listed his absence from the pre-deadline game as an undisclosed day-to-day injury. We don't know if he was actually injured or if it was protecting the asset, and if he was injured, we don't know what it was beyond it being minor, and we don't know whether he healed up prior to the trade. Either way it's irrelevant, because we traded for Nick Foligno to play games with us when he came out of his quarantine starting April 22nd, and on April 22nd, we got a fully healthy Foligno.

Things we actually know? He was given the option to take it slow coming out of the extended quarantine. He said that no, he was fully ready to go. He played great for us from the day he joined us until his injury on May 3rd. We all saw it happen. We all saw the behind the scenes of it happening. We all saw him struggle after that point. We have Foligno explicitly saying that that injury was brand new, debilitating, and something he had never experienced before.

So whether the undisclosed day-to-day injury before he was traded and weeks before he was even eligible to play for us was real is really kind of missing the point. And to say that we traded for an injured Foligno - true on a technicality or not - really fails to capture what actually happened. We traded for somebody that joined us at the earliest possible date healthy, and he experienced an injury with us that severely decreased his effectiveness. It sucks that we didn't get the true Foligno, but injuries aren't anybody's fault. We've had a ton of injuries and sickness this season, and it would be equally wrong to blame that on Treliving.

Treliving’s competence was called into question by a lot of Dubas people like Jonas Siegel when he suffered a season ending injury and went on the LTIR…

Then you remember the fact that Dubas had always been fairly poor with managing injured players.

Such as the Foligno deal which you seem to be in complete denial about. And that wouldn’t be such a unique case when you look at the fact he traded for Matt Murray, who was coming off a big injury when we got him from Ottawa. Or that we traded for Riley Nash, who was injured when we got him and was never healthy to do anything. Or the fact that he knew Jake Muzzin was completely done but didn’t manage his situation until the first day of fitness testing when he hurt himself. And then suffered a career ender 4 games into last season.

Dubas moving forward with damaged goods wasn’t unusual.

 

[Menzinger]

When you look at all off the mistakes Kyle Dumbass made - - lopsided rip off trades, brutal overpaid free agents, horrible drafting - - he’s much worse than Ferguson Jr and Gord Stellick.

When Mark Hunter was the assistant GM to Lamorielo, Hunter had the ultimate source of scouting intel from his brother in London. This is why Hunter pushed so hard for Toronto to draft Mitch Marner in 2015.

Unfortunately for Toronto, their scouts all wanted to take Sebastian Aho in the 2nd round, but Dumbass pushed hard for Travis Dermott. Even though everyone else recommended Aho, Shanahan sided with Dumbass - - presumably, because he wanted to give his other assistant GM authority over the 2nd round pick just as he had given Hunter authority over the 1st round pick.

This was an early indication that Kyle Dumbass has ZERO ability to evaluate players.

This would be the first I've heard of that, it also seems unlikely. Do you have a source?

 

[Stephen]

This would be the first I've heard of that, it also seems unlikely. Do you have a source?

I think that's incorrect. Konecny and Aho were more fan favorite picks at the time of the draft as an OHL star and a more progressive Euro skill player, and Dermrott was a bit of a darkhorse, but not a big deal since the Leafs were sniffing around home run swing type picks like Timashov, Bracco, Korostelev, Dzierkals, etc in the 2015 and 2016 drafts anyway.

At the time, Dermott was the 1D defenseman on the Erie Otters with Connor McDavid and Dylan Strome, and the Leafs trading down twice to get him seemed to indicate maybe they had something special like a Letang or Subban type guy, but don't think there was any draft day controversy since the regime was brand new and who could have known how dumb of a sequence that whole thing turned out to be.