Brad Marchand - HHOF?

[hamzarocks]

Eight

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2016 and 2023 are not elite in any way whatsoever

 

[The Hockey Tonk Man]

2016 and 2023 are not elite in any way whatsoever

2023 coming off double? hip surgery was a pretty solid outing for an older player

but yea, not elite. Still solid all things considered

 

[BostonBruins11]

2016 and 2023 are not elite in any way whatsoever

So by your standards phil Kessel was never elite? Leaf fan were shouting Kessel elite ever year he was a Leaf.
37g is elite(2016)

2023 he literally had ZERO pres season training or training camp, literally came in out of shape, back from double hip Injury. Not many players would come back from that and pace for 75pts+ the fact ge even produced over 50 pts given his circumstances is ABSOLUTELY Elite.

 

[The Hockey Tonk Man]

This is the HOF criteria for a player:



Sportsmanship and character are a clear part of the criteria. Licking someone's face against their will the way Brad Marchand did would be considered sexual assault where I work. I don't know why the hockey community is not more firm on this. He has also gone out of his way to cause injury to other players after the whistle blows, as was the case with Marcus Johansson.

Marchand's ability and contributions to his team are good enough to get him in, but his atrocious character and lack of sportsmanship easily warrant keeping him out IMO.

And no, the PR campaign currently being waged to rebrand Marchand into a funny twitter personality doesn't make a dent in any of this.

If I'm a voter I'm not voting for him.

Dropping your coffee and fighting a guy that doesn't want to fight would also be psychical assault at your work.

 

[CapsCrazyX17]

This might be a hot take but nobody should be seriously using All Star Game appearances and First/Second All Star Team selections as compelling evidence of major career accomplishments for the purposes of a Hall of Fame induction.

Think of all of the elite players (Crosby) who missed out on All Star games merely due to injury. Guys who make it in as injury replacements when two or three guys who play their same position couldn't make it doesn't automatically mean they were among the best in their position that season.

Think of all of the elite players who just didn't care enough to want to go and skipped it (Ovechkin). If the players don't take All Star games seriously then why should HHOF voters?

Not to mention how trolling/biased fan voting made a joke of All Star selections (John Scott, Mike Komisarek, etc.). Were those guys truly top 5 or even top 10 in their position in the entire league those seasons? Hell no.

Even the end-of-year All Star selections are a joke; remember that year Ovi was voted in as both LW and RW because the voters didn't know what they were doing? Since he made it twice at two positions in the same year does that mean Ovi was the best player in the universe and a HHOF lock? Of course not, it is his other career accomplishments that get him there, not a silly voting error.

To get back to the original topic, I do think Marchand is one of those guys who will get in eventually but I don't see him being a first-ballot choice.

 

[Sheppy]

He's better than a lot of people in it.

 

[hamzarocks]

So by your standards phil Kessel was never elite? Leaf fan were shouting Kessel elite ever year he was a Leaf.
37g is elite(2016)

2023 he literally had ZERO pres season training or training camp, literally came in out of shape, back from double hip Injury. Not many players would come back from that and pace for 75pts+ the fact ge even produced over 50 pts given his circumstances is ABSOLUTELY Elite.

Lol come one dude

37 goals but 61 pts only showed he was a one wsy producer.

He had 6 years where he was an incredibly rounded producer *40 goals and 60 assists or so type player

No body cares about injuries, if you play nearly all the year. Matthews had a down year with it being said his wrist screwed him this year. Yet his year was still bad for a player of his level

Kessel was putting 37 goaks and like 80 pts at his best in a low scoring era.

Marchand in 2016 wasnt regarded as a top 15 winger while 2017 to 2022 he was top 3 or 5 at worst.

2023 he played in a very high scoring era and was still below ppg despite having Pastrnak on his team.

He visibly fell off this year pretty hard and isnt an elite wonger any more

 

[Walkingthroughforest]

Brad Marchand in the HHOF would devalue everyone else’s accomplishments who are in there.

I’m sure there are many other questionable inclusions, but Marchand does not have the goals or points to be a hall of fame worthy player.

He is a very good player, but nothing exceptional at all

Looks like he belongs in the Bruins hall of Fame. That's about it.

His team success plus international is very much on par with the average HHOF selection.

4x NHL All Star Team is a significant accomplishment, as is 4x top 10 finishes, 6x PPG seasons, 1x 100 point season, 3x Cup Finals, 1x Cup 1x World Cup gold, and most elimination goals in an 06 franchise.

He’ll finish off with 400+ goals and 1000+ points. Especially finishing his career off as Bruins captain and likely a B for life, he has a good chance of being first ballot.

 

[BostonBruins11]

Lol come one dude

37 goals but 61 pts only showed he was a one wsy producer.

He had 6 years where he was an incredibly rounded producer *40 goals and 60 assists or so type player

No body cares about injuries, if you play nearly all the year. Matthews had a down year with it being said his wrist screwed him this year. Yet his year was still bad for a player of his level

Kessel was putting 37 goaks and like 80 pts at his best in a low scoring era.

Marchand in 2016 wasnt regarded as a top 15 winger while 2017 to 2022 he was top 3 or 5 at worst.

2023 he played in a very high scoring era and was still below ppg despite having Pastrnak on his team.

He visibly fell off this year pretty hard and isnt an elite wonger any more

Visually fell off? Yeah anyone with a hint of common sense would understand why ..... zero training, pre season camp, training camp.... are confusing Elite with generational? He literally just had double hip surgery aka career ending situation for 99% of players. This year he's been on the ice 2 weeks in since the season ended, he's going to have a major bounce back year book it.

Also discounting on the best 2-way wingers of his Era and best penalty killing winger. He has more short handed goals than anyone in the league.

 

[hamzarocks]

Visually fell off? Yeah anyone with a hint of common sense would understand why ..... zero training, pre season camp, training camp.... are confusing Elite with generational? He literally just had double hip surgery aka career ending situation for 99% of players. This year he's been on the ice 2 weeks in since the season ended, he's going to have a major bounce back year book it.

Also discounting on the best 2-way wingers of his Era and best penalty killing winger. He has more short handed goals than anyone in the league.

No one looking back will view Marchand this year as elite

Look at his scoring finish, goal finish, ppg, hart voting etc.

He either needs a big time bounce back year next year to show the injuries actually did impact him, or its the start of his decline as he enters his mid 30s

 

[GrumpyKoala]

I think he worth considering
As for the points production only, the current cut off seem to be around 1100 - 1200 points

Jeremy Roenick, Bernie Nicholls and Damphousse are the only players not in with more than 1200 pts
While around 25 (active or not) are also not in between 1000-1100 pts

 

[TheDawnOfANewTage]

His team success plus international is very much on par with the average HHOF selection.

4x NHL All Star Team is a significant accomplishment, as is 4x top 10 finishes, 6x PPG seasons, 1x 100 point season, 3x Cup Finals, 1x Cup 1x World Cup gold, and most elimination goals in an 06 franchise.

He’ll finish off with 400+ goals and 1000+ points. Especially finishing his career off as Bruins captain and likely a B for life, he has a good chance of being first ballot.

I do not like Bradley Marchand, but goddammit do I respect his numbers. Like, ya man, that’s a HOF resume.

 

[jgatie]

Brad Marchand in the HHOF would devalue everyone else’s accomplishments who are in there.

Bobby Clarke is in the HHOF, and he may be the filthiest, dirtiest, most loathsome human being to ever lace up a pair of skates.

 

[Voight]

This might be a hot take but nobody should be seriously using All Star Game appearances and First/Second All Star Team selections as compelling evidence of major career accomplishments for the purposes of a Hall of Fame induction.

Think of all of the elite players (Crosby) who missed out on All Star games merely due to injury. Guys who make it in as injury replacements when two or three guys who play their same position couldn't make it doesn't automatically mean they were among the best in their position that season.

Think of all of the elite players who just didn't care enough to want to go and skipped it (Ovechkin). If the players don't take All Star games seriously then why should HHOF voters?

Not to mention how trolling/biased fan voting made a joke of All Star selections (John Scott, Mike Komisarek, etc.). Were those guys truly top 5 or even top 10 in their position in the entire league those seasons? Hell no.

Even the end-of-year All Star selections are a joke; remember that year Ovi was voted in as both LW and RW because the voters didn't know what they were doing? Since he made it twice at two positions in the same year does that mean Ovi was the best player in the universe and a HHOF lock? Of course not, it is his other career accomplishments that get him there, not a silly voting error.

To get back to the original topic, I do think Marchand is one of those guys who will get in eventually but I don't see him being a first-ballot choice.

.... those are end of season all star teams, basically the best player at reach position.... why wouldn't you use them as evidence?

 

[jgatie]

So by your standards phil Kessel was never elite? Leaf fan were shouting Kessel elite ever year he was a Leaf.
37g is elite(2016)

Remember the "40 Goal Scorer" who never scored 40 goals?

 

[Voight]

Nope began to late

Hes got 5-6 elite years only

2017-2022 he was elite

Even this year hes not a elite winger. Production was below ppg in a high scoring season

From 2017 to 2022 he was a top 5 winger for sure (kuch, breadman, kane, marchand are 4 of the 5 with 5th being 1 of marner/pasta/OV/rantanen)

Thats enough to get him into the HHOF.

 

[armani]

For better it worse, Brad Marchand is one of the most well known players of his generation.

Breaking down his accomplishments so far:

1x Stanley Cup
1x World Cup Gold
1x 100 point season
5x 80+ point seasons
6x PPG seasons
5x 30 goal seasons
3x Top 10 finishes
2x First Team All Star
2x Second Team All Star
3x Stanley Cup Finals
2x WJC Gold
6x Team leader in points

He holds significant Bruins records:
- Most OT goals in history
- Most shorthanded goals in history
- Most playoff elimination goals in history

He has been a consistently high level playoff performer and, barring injuries, will finish with over 1000 points and 400 goals.

To me, this is a HHOF resume.

Marchand is easily a Hall of Famer. Such an impressive resume playing the style he plays.

 

[hamzarocks]

Thats enough to get him into the HHOF.

It might be but other guys with similar careers like Moginly, and Fleury didnt get in

Kariya also took forever to get in when he was better than peak marchand and his prime was longer despite massive injuries and played a decent bit in DPE

 

[Voight]

It might be but other guys with similar careers like Moginly, and Fleury didnt get in

Kariya also took forever to get in when he was better than peak marchand and his prime was longer despite massive injuries and played a decent bit in DPE

Honestly, tin foil hat here, I think it took a while for Karina to get int because he criticized the league and what they did with concussions. The OBC doesn't like that. Probably the same for Fleury once he came out with the sexual assault allegations.

Mogilny and Fleury were great players, but IMO neither put up a 5/6 season run like Marchand did.

 

[hamzarocks]

Honestly, tin foil hat here, I think it took a while for Karina to get int because he criticized the league and what they did with concussions. The OBC doesn't like that. Probably the same for Fleury once he came out with the sexual assault allegations.

Mogilny and Fleury were great players, but IMO neither put up a 5/6 season run like Marchand did.

Thats fair.

Marchand had a better peak and prime than Toews and and a better prime than Getzlaf and both likely go to the hall

Marchand probably ends with around 1100 pts if he plays another 3-4 years

 

[BostonBruins11]

Remember the "40 Goal Scorer" who never scored 40 goals?

Yup the constant mental gymnastics lol

 

[trentmccleary]

Similar position, accolades, T10 scoring finishes, career stats (for now) and story (peaked while on a super line, but not seen as the dominant part of it); how about John Leclair as a career comparable?

Player	Leclair	Marchand
T10 Pts	4,5,9,9	3,5,5,6
T10 G	3,3,5,5,7,10	4,6,6
T10 A	N/A	5,8,10
1st AST	2​	2​
2nd AST	3​	2​
SC win	1​	1​
SCF loss	1​	2​
GP	967​	947​
G	406​	372​
A	413​	490​
Pts	819​	862​
GPG	0.42​	0.39​
PPG	0.85​	0.91​

 

[Neil Racki]

Backstrom (35 yrs old) 1097 games, 1032 points

Marchand (35 years old), 947 games, 862 points

Hopefully they both get in

 

[Walkingthroughforest]

It might be but other guys with similar careers like Moginly, and Fleury didnt get in

Kariya also took forever to get in when he was better than peak marchand and his prime was longer despite massive injuries and played a decent bit in DPE

Those are all very different circumstances.

Theo Fleury

A first ballot HHOF player, and his not being in the hall has nothing to with hockey. His behaviour around drugs and alcohol, his toxic tendencies around numerous teams, his inappropriate statements to the media, and now his Qanon crusade will likely keep him out of the hall until his death.

Paul Kariya

Kariya’s career fell off a cliff when he left Anaheim. Injuries, location and age were all factors.

The final six seasons of his career, starting at 29, were statistically very average compared to the rest of his career, was well the final two years of his prime were wasted on a disastrous season in Colorado and the the lockout year.

Post lockout he disappeared from any major media coverage by signing in Nashville. He was effectively forgotten by the hockey world, as he never had a resurgence year in the “New NHL” like Selanne or Jagr, as the injuries he sustained during his career were difficult to treat.

His two years in Nashville were great for an above average top line winger, but they were completely forgettable to anyone outside of Tennessee, and they were nowhere close to Kariya’s prime. When he signed in St. Louis, he was on his last legs and the team only qualified for the playoffs once and he was injured for it.

He also pissed off some pretty important people in hockey when he left Anaheim the way he did. If he had stayed in the pond I think he would have been first ballot.

I’d argue that the last game that was relevant to his legacy was Game 6 of the 2003 SCF.

Alexander Mogilny

Mogilny should be in today and his exclusion is wrong, however it’s hard to justify him over the applicants that are coming in every year.

I honestly don’t think any of the three are good comparables to Marchand.

Comparables

Fleury has a completely different set of circumstance.

Kariya’s HHOF resume ended at 29 and then floundered until retirement, while that’s around the age Marchand found his elite level game.

Mogilny is the closest, but Marchand has the advantage of being a single team player on a wildly successful O6.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

So by your standards phil Kessel was never elite? Leaf fan were shouting Kessel elite ever year he was a Leaf.
37g is elite(2016)

2023 he literally had ZERO pres season training or training camp, literally came in out of shape, back from double hip Injury. Not many players would come back from that and pace for 75pts+ the fact ge even produced over 50 pts given his circumstances is ABSOLUTELY Elite.

So now being considered elite factors in how much training a player has had?