He is a third liner for us because of DK/Bergy ahead of him, 49 pts w/ limited time and a revolving door of linemates that mostly included jimmy hayes being invisible for 20 games at a time. Real linemates and he should put up more, crazy good on the powerplay, had some of the most primary assists in the league this year. Played rw with bergy and marchy put up .5 ppg in one of his earlier callups to the bruins. I think he could hit 60+pts easily with the right linemates, needs work defensively but put his with a kesler and let kesler do the defensive work and faceofffs and have spooner work hsi maigc as a center in the o-zone while kesler bangs and goes to the net ala backes.
Proposal: Boston - Anaheim
- Thread starter Coach Parker
- Start date
He is a third liner for us because of DK/Bergy ahead of him, 49 pts w/ limited time and a revolving door of linemates that mostly included jimmy hayes being invisible for 20 games at a time. Real linemates and he should put up more, crazy good on the powerplay, had some of the most primary assists in the league this year. Played rw with bergy and marchy put up .5 ppg in one of his earlier callups to the bruins. I think he could hit 60+pts easily with the right linemates, needs work defensively but put his with a kesler and let kesler do the defensive work and faceofffs and have spooner work hsi maigc as a center in the o-zone while kesler bangs and goes to the net ala backes.
weaponomega
Registered User
I disagree. Spooner in his first full season playing 3rd line minutes put up 49 points. To say he's already reached his max potential at 24 with one season under his belt seems rather dubious.
He's a fairly one dimensional player, but I think his potential is 65 points and I don't think its that far off saying he's worth Fowler 1 for 1. The Bruins probably add some what but I think Spooner and Senyshyn for Fowler is overpayment.
wintersej
Registered User
wintersej
Registered User
Yeah, I think you are off on Spooner's point potential. Spooner is a play maker that was playing with Jimmy Hayes and Matt Beleskey as his primary targets. Despite that, he was a top 10 primary assist guy in the league during 5 on 5 play. Not per minute, but overall. While playing only 15 minutes a game.
You are not wrong that one for one for Fowler is crazy talk.
Number1RedWingsFan52
Registered User
Totally agree with some saying that Spooner is a 60+ point scorer, I mean 49 points in his first full season with Boston on the 3rd line is pretty darn good. For starters and if he was traded to Anaheim i could easily see him putting up big numbers there.
Yeah Fowler is slightly more valuable then Spooner. Would think that Boston would need to at least add a pick or something.
Vipers31
Advanced Stagnostic
That's how you do it. Proclaim noone will offer anything one fanbase will be happy with for player X. See a fan of a third team offer something that the fanbase is decently happy with. Claim "it's too much". Good job.
WhatTheDuck
9 - 20 - 8
He'll likely need another year of junior but could probably challenge for a job next season.
KaseMeOutside
Based
- Oct 18, 2011
- 44,278
- 10,201
value seems good but I think at this point the ducks are going to start the season with Fowler, RC likes him so I expect that RC may try to partner him with someone good for once
You seem to always pop up at a similar time/place time as me saying similar things...Great minds and such.
Ducks in a row
Go Ducks Quack Quack
Pennaduck
Registered User
I'd make this deal. I'd add a pick or non-blue chip prospect to even things out a bit too, if need be. I think the trade would be great both both teams really
wintersej
Registered User
His opponents Corsi % was the same as Perry's. Research before posting. It's a 30 second Google search.
DavidBL
Registered User
I wouldn't expect you to know this as a fan of another team but Perry spent a significant portion of the year on the "third line" with Rakell at center. Hence they both got 3rd line level competition.
Halla
Registered User
- Jan 28, 2016
- 14,727
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Spooner just outproduced Tatar and he was born in 92..Tatar in 90.
Id take Spooner everyday of the week and I hate the Bruins
That stat is beyond a joke. Are you seriously denying the idea that a 3rd liner doesn't see the same level of competition as guys on the 2nd and 1st line?
wintersej
Registered User
Honestly, over the course of a season it tends to mostly even out. In an individual playoff series, or game, a certain player can be matched up against someone else, but over a whole season most players play a bit of time against everyone. The Bruins, outside of the playoffs against Crosby or something, don't tend to do a lot of trying to match lines. What they do is give Bergeron all the d-zone draws, and Spooner as many offensive zone draws as Getzlaf or Perry. Despite getting zone starts that favorable, Spooner's line still got outshot. If you want to attack Spooner, that is the line of attack, not quality of competition.
Interesting breakdown on quality of competition over the course of a season: http://nhlnumbers.com/2012/7/23/the-importance-of-quality-of-competition
Paul4587
Registered User
- Jan 26, 2006
- 31,206
- 13,233
Two problems with that article are that it used corsi and corsi rel as the basis for the measure of what competition players are facing (those are terrible measures and don't reflect who the top players on teams are) and that it doesn't appear to account for score effects - in a 5-1 game in the 3rd period 4th liners are likely going to see time against 1st liners because the score doesn't matter and generally the game calms down into a boring non affair.
wintersej
Registered User
I don't think the score effects particularly matter in the context of the "Ryan Spooner only plays against 3rd liners!" argument. Using corsi based stats as a proxy for quality of competition is certainly flawed, but it is the best (or at least easiest) we got. The real point is to show that over the course of home/away games throughout the season, the idea that 1st liners play against the shut down line and 4th liners play against 4th liners and yada yada don't really work that way. You might see those kind of match ups happen in an individual game or a playoff series, but, overall, everyone plays against everyone.
wintersej
Registered User
The more I think on it, the more I think Senyshyn as the plus is too steep. Unlike Shattenkirk, Boston can't extend Fowler, yet, which, despite his low cap hit for the next two seasons, actually lowers his value compared to the pending UFA, oddly.
caliamad
Registered User
I like to look at Derek Stepan and Brassard, Dubinsky, kadri. They are all older(kadri only a year). All have much more time in the league, all have only ourscored spooner by 8ts at the most, all have been considered 1c's/great 2c's.
Spooner was good for 86th in forward scoring meaning top line forward on a lower level offensive team. one pt away from adam henrique who had five more minutes average toi.
He doesn't have the defensive responsibility most of those other players have, and only 12 minutes of pk time, similar to domi, malkin, more than zuccarello. Also heavy offensive zone usage, like most offensive weapons, especially teams who have someone like bergy to do everything close to rask.
He put up 29 primary assists, one more than krecji, crosby, three more than seguin and benn, four more than giroux, pavelski and kopitar. Difference his linemates are hayes and beleskey perrenial 30-40 pt sccorers.
Better linemates, more time on ice and player growth no reason to think he can score 5 pts easy with more offensive linemates, 60-65 isnt out of the realm of possibility.
Not saying spooner for fowler is straight up fair, but there is a lot of spooner underselling.
Spooner was good for 86th in forward scoring meaning top line forward on a lower level offensive team. one pt away from adam henrique who had five more minutes average toi.
He doesn't have the defensive responsibility most of those other players have, and only 12 minutes of pk time, similar to domi, malkin, more than zuccarello. Also heavy offensive zone usage, like most offensive weapons, especially teams who have someone like bergy to do everything close to rask.
He put up 29 primary assists, one more than krecji, crosby, three more than seguin and benn, four more than giroux, pavelski and kopitar. Difference his linemates are hayes and beleskey perrenial 30-40 pt sccorers.
Better linemates, more time on ice and player growth no reason to think he can score 5 pts easy with more offensive linemates, 60-65 isnt out of the realm of possibility.
Not saying spooner for fowler is straight up fair, but there is a lot of spooner underselling.
