Value of: Boone Jenner

[major major]

He's been a very good powerplay player in recent years (look at his scoring rate). If he was still on the first unit he'd have a lot more production (that's where almost all of Atkinson and Wennberg's scoring is right now). The second unit isn't even getting out there because the first is scoring!

That and Boone hasn't been good 5 on 5. Like others I'm not sure why, but half of the team's scorers have yet to get going 5 on 5.

 

[TML1967]

Would a deal around Kadri (better playmaker) for Jenner (better finisher) work?

Jenner is more ideal for what the Leafs want long term, and Id add to Kadri some decent futures (picks and/or prospects) to get it done.

I like what Jenner can do as a elite 3C behind Matthews and Nylander (think Jordan Stall light with the Penguins) or 2nd like W as a forechecker/net front guy.

Id go as far as Kadri + Kapanen + Marincin for Jenner+Jack Johnson (half cap dump)

 

[Viqsi]

Would a deal around Kadri (better playmaker) for Jenner (better finisher) work?

The cap hit difference is significant enough that we'd need to address that somehow. It's not completely out of the question or anything; it's just kind of "meh". We don't really have a need to move the guy at the moment, after all.

Id go as far as Kadri + Kapanen + Marincin for Jenner+Jack Johnson (half cap dump)

That's... headed in the wrong direction. Marincin and Kapanen are not really of that much value to us (we've got plenty of youngsters and prospects at both positions), but JJ is.

 

[TML1967]

The cap hit difference is significant enough that we'd need to address that somehow. It's not completely out of the question or anything; it's just kind of "meh". We don't really have a need to move the guy at the moment, after all.



That's... headed in the wrong direction. Marincin and Kapanen are not really of that much value to us (we've got plenty of youngsters and prospects at both positions), but JJ is.

Agreed on both, was just trying to sus out value wise what the difference was from Columbus view on a possible trade. I see JJ as mostly a cap dump, or bottom pairing guy who is vastly overpaid.

Id think we can offer most people on short (3 years or less) contracts at 50% if that helps find balance in a trade.

 

[WannabeFinn]

Id go as far as Kadri + Kapanen + Marincin for Jenner+Jack Johnson (half cap dump)

Wow, that far?! How generous of you.

 

[TML1967]

Wow, that far?! How generous of you.

I know hilarious Leaf fan right?

As I explained, I see JJ as mostly a cap dump for CLB.
Kapanen is having a hell of an AHL season so far, and is still just 20. I think most people see him as a pretty valuable piece with top 6 upside.
Marincin has some good advanced stats numbers, is younger, is cheaper, and is a more fluid skater than JJ.

 

[mikeyp24]

JJ is in no way a cap dump he is a rock solid 2nd pair D. Ever since they moved him from our #1 to 2nd pair he has thrived.

Kadri is of no use to us. We have our 2nd and 3rd C for the next 4 years locked up. We would need a 1C in return for Jenner and a + added if it is a really high caliber. Nylander I'd assume would be the guy we target if Jenner is involved. Kadri is a 3C at the end of the day. Maybe low end 2C. Just not enough skill.

 

[Gavy]

TIL Kadri is just a 3C

 

[HoseEmDown]

Tyler Johnson + Jason Garrison for Boone Jenner + Jack Johnson?

 

[Viqsi]

I know hilarious Leaf fan right?

As I explained, I see JJ as mostly a cap dump for CLB.
Kapanen is having a hell of an AHL season so far, and is still just 20. I think most people see him as a pretty valuable piece with top 6 upside.
Marincin has some good advanced stats numbers, is younger, is cheaper, and is a more fluid skater than JJ.

The problem is that your assessment of JJ's value to Columbus is very badly off-track. Kapanen's work in the AHL, while nice, doesn't really endear him to us above and beyond what we've got in guys like Bjorkstrand and Milano and so on. And Marincin is not of interest at all - we have plenty of young blueliners if we want to go that route. So, really, the "value added" proposal attempt doesn't add much value for us, but it certainly does take away someone who's very valuable.

* * *​

JJ is in no way a cap dump he is a rock solid 2nd pair D. Ever since they moved him from our #1 to 2nd pair he has thrived.

Kadri is of no use to us. We have our 2nd and 3rd C for the next 4 years locked up. We would need a 1C in return for Jenner and a + added if it is a really high caliber. Nylander I'd assume would be the guy we target if Jenner is involved. Kadri is a 3C at the end of the day. Maybe low end 2C. Just not enough skill.

I wouldn't go quite that far. He can still be useful; it's just that right now Jenner is likely to be moreso. And calling him a #3C is like someone referring to Dubinsky as a #3C - sure, he could play that role, but he's better than that and those of us familiar with the guy know it.

* * *​

Tyler Johnson + Jason Garrison for Boone Jenner + Jack Johnson?

Mmmmmmaybe. Seems a not unreasonable setup on the surface; I'm just not in any hurry to say "yeah, sure, let's trade away Jenner".

 

[JohnnyJacket13]

Tyler Johnson + Jason Garrison for Boone Jenner + Jack Johnson?

I would probably do this

 

[mikeyp24]

Tyler Johnson + Jason Garrison for Boone Jenner + Jack Johnson?

Is Johnson still hurt? And what is garrisons contract?

 

[Viqsi]

Is Johnson still hurt? And what is garrisons contract?

About $250k/year more than JJ's, and that's it - same term, even. We end up taking on something around $0.6-0.7m in cap space this year, and would have to resign TJ this summer.

 

[mikeyp24]

I wouldn't go quite that far. He can still be useful; it's just that right now Jenner is likely to be moreso. And calling him a #3C is like someone referring to Dubinsky as a #3C - sure, he could play that role, but he's better than that and those of us familiar with the guy know it.

I've seen Kadri play more then enough times to know he will never be better then a low 2C but a very good 3C. He's in the 50-70 range of centers in the league. Dubi on the other hand consistently defends like a 2C and scores like a 2C but right now I would say Dubi is aging his way into a 3C now too by the way his year has started.

Also to the leafs poster JJ is in no way remotely close to over paid or a cap dump. He is also not a bottom pairing guy he is a 3-4.

 

[WannabeFinn]

I know hilarious Leaf fan right?

As I explained, I see JJ as mostly a cap dump for CLB.
Kapanen is having a hell of an AHL season so far, and is still just 20. I think most people see him as a pretty valuable piece with top 6 upside.
Marincin has some good advanced stats numbers, is younger, is cheaper, and is a more fluid skater than JJ.

That's cool. JJ isn't a cap dump and Jenner is >>>>> Kapanen. Kadri is just more of the same in regards to our center situation and doesn't give us any clear 1C option.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Ottawa would offer Colin White and a 2017 2nd.

you sure they have a 2017 2nd?

 

[Randy Randerson]

I've seen Kadri play more then enough times to know he will never be better then a low 2C but a very good 3C. He's in the 50-70 range of centers in the league. Dubi on the other hand consistently defends like a 2C and scores like a 2C but right now I would say Dubi is aging his way into a 3C now too by the way his year has started.

Also to the leafs poster JJ is in no way remotely close to over paid or a cap dump. He is also not a bottom pairing guy he is a 3-4.

Will disagree on Kadri, if you take out last year where he had a brutally, unsustainably low shooting percentage he's been a fine 2nd line centre. And if you're giving him credit for being the 50th best centre in the league, that's a good 2nd line centre. He also had atrocious line mates last year. His career production is slightly better than Dubinsky's but almost identical, and aside from last year they look like very very good comparable players. Kadri is 4 years younger and makes $1.35mil less on the same term. It's easy to fall in love with your own guys, but there appears to be very little separating Dubinsky and Kadri other than age and contract - also understand that acquiring him doesn't address your need for a #1C

I don't watch enough of Johnson to know what he brings, but a quick glance at the numbers makes him look like a guy who is asked more than 3rd line pairing minutes and quality of competition, but gets thoroughly overmatched by his competition with negative affects on his teams own shots, the other teams shots and productive possession - while getting paid like a second pairing guy. I've heard he can go beast mode and make you see what got him drafted so high at times. The data I'm looking at is last season and previous, so I would expect his usage to change quite a bit with Werenski hitting the scene. At face value, Johnson looks like a guy at risk of becoming a bad contract who was asked too much of and didn't deliver - not a massive risk because of the term

I'm also not advocating this trade, it doesn't do anything for the leafs and I want to see what Kapanen turns in to. Jenner is an interesting piece but the fact that he scores all his goals from close range where someone else got the puck to the net worries me, he might fit will with uber-skilled linemates like we'll have going forward but I think that's a fillable need without giving up Kadri or Kapanen

 

[Zarathustra]

The only players who aren't going anywhere are Jones, Jenner, and Werenski. Take your pick at anyone else

I disagree with that quite a bit. I think they would trade Jenner if we could get another center.


I'd put Saad & Wennberg ahead of Jenner as well.

 

[major major]

For the record, Kadri is a fine 2C, and JJ a solid 2nd pair D. (All IMO of course).

Would a deal around Kadri (better playmaker) for Jenner (better finisher) work?

Jenner is more ideal for what the Leafs want long term, and Id add to Kadri some decent futures (picks and/or prospects) to get it done.

I like what Jenner can do as a elite 3C behind Matthews and Nylander (think Jordan Stall light with the Penguins) or 2nd like W as a forechecker/net front guy.

Id go as far as Kadri + Kapanen + Marincin for Jenner+Jack Johnson (half cap dump)

Good deal, maybe. The Jackets rebuild is earlier, and finishing now, and they(we) really need someone who can play up the middle and take the shutdown load off of Dubi. But after tonight's game, I doubt many Leafs fans would like the idea of moving Kadri. Realistically though, if we're not getting a center (>Bozak) we're not moving Jenner.

As far as the specific offer, if you think JJ is a dump, we'll just, you know, keep him. And you keep the prospects.

Tyler Johnson + Jason Garrison for Boone Jenner + Jack Johnson?

Might be a good classic change of scenery trade. Though is it really important to you to swap out Garrison? JJ appears to be the one player of the 4 actually playing well right now.

 

[major major]

That's cool. JJ isn't a cap dump and Jenner is >>>>> Kapanen. Kadri is just more of the same in regards to our center situation and doesn't give us any clear 1C option.

I wish. Our centers right now are:

Wennberg (good PP production)
Dubinsky (playing like ****)
Karlsson (a defensive star, but D only)
Sedlak (good 4th line rookie)

Kadri has 4 ES points, which is more than any of them. And he's a good matchup guy.

 

[HoseEmDown]

Might be a good classic change of scenery trade. Though is it really important to you to swap out Garrison? JJ appears to be the one player of the 4 actually playing well right now.

I think Johnson is too comfortable with Cooper, he needs something to kick start him back to the player he was 2 years ago. Part of swapping Garrison for Johnson is cap savings, it's just less than 300k but everything will help for us next year, I'm also over Garrison and want to move on from him and Johnson is someone I think who'll do great in Cooper system.

 

[Sens Vader]

would CBJ be interested in a package around Lazar++?

 

[Viqsi]

would CBJ be interested in a package around Lazar++?

That depends. Would the Sens be interested in a Prout++ for Ceci package?

 

[Sens Vader]

That depends. Would the Sens be interested in a Prout++ for Ceci package?

cant afford to lose a top 4 d,

but i understand youre just tryna be a dick

 

[Viqsi]

cant afford to lose a top 4 d,

but i understand youre just tryna be a dick

Well, given that we keep saying "top-6 center" and you responded with "what about this here bottom-6 center we have", I figured a response in kind was the best policy.