Books: Book(s) you are Currently Reading | Part 3

Thucydides

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Kind of an obscure read from the '80s I'd been looking for..
Basically the history of how Hawaii became American.

I think I have a dissident opinion on this subject..but I think both the annexation (& subsequent statehood) of Hawaii were not beneficial for average Americans or native Hawaiians. The Hawaiian independence movement seems to be fading in to obscurity, and Hawaiian statehood is solidly taken for granted now. But, who knows, maybe one day Hawaii & the US will peacefully go their separate ways. I hope..

I don't know enough about the subject to have any kind of opinion on it, but I'm curious about yours. Why do you hope they go their seperate ways?
 

Babe Ruth

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I don't know enough about the subject to have any kind of opinion on it, but I'm curious about yours. Why do you hope they go their seperate ways?
Basically I think it was an unnecessary and immoral conquest of Hawaii. The native Hawaiians had their way of life destroyed, with little to no benefit for Americans. In my opinion annexation was a lose-lose scenario, that only benefitted a narrow private business interest (sugar).
Then when Hawaii gained statehood 60 years later, it compounded the lose-lose arrangement. The US absorbed a society with political power, that was fundamentally incompatible with a Western society.. and the native Hawaiians were deracinated.

I'm not really a fan of America's 'benevolent' imperialism. I believe we could return Hawaii to basically a sovereign kingdom, while maintaining a friendly relationship with them. Being in the middle of the Pacific makes Hawaii a valuable location for international traveling & military. So I forsee the US sustaining a military relationship. But that could be done even if Hawaii was no longer a state.
The problem tho, native Hawaii has been pretty thoroughly deracinated & colonized..so the Hawaiian independence movement is fading fast, or is more interested in arrangements that replicate mainland Indian arrangements with the Federal government.. which are more lose-lose. And I get the logistics of Americans who would want to leave a newly sovereign Hawaii would be hard, but.. Just my opinion..
and I have a similar take on why Puerto Rico should be given full independence & shouldn't be admitted as a state.
 

Thucydides

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Dec 24, 2009
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Basically I think it was an unnecessary and immoral conquest of Hawaii. The native Hawaiians had their way of life destroyed, with little to no benefit for Americans. In my opinion annexation was a lose-lose scenario, that only benefitted a narrow private business interest (sugar).
Then when Hawaii gained statehood 60 years later, it compounded the lose-lose arrangement. The US absorbed a society with political power, that was fundamentally incompatible with a Western society.. and the native Hawaiians were deracinated.

I'm not really a fan of America's 'benevolent' imperialism. I believe we could return Hawaii to basically a sovereign kingdom, while maintaining a friendly relationship with them. Being in the middle of the Pacific makes Hawaii a valuable location for international traveling & military. So I forsee the US sustaining a military relationship. But that could be done even if Hawaii was no longer a state.
The problem tho, native Hawaii has been pretty thoroughly deracinated & colonized..so the Hawaiian independence movement is fading fast, or is more interested in arrangements that replicate mainland Indian arrangements with the Federal government.. which are more lose-lose. And I get the logistics of Americans who would want to leave a newly sovereign Hawaii would be hard, but.. Just my opinion..
and I have a similar take on why Puerto Rico should be given full independence & shouldn't be admitted as a staBasically I think it was an unnecessary and immoral conquest of Hawaii. The native Hawaiians had their way of life destroyed, with little to no benefit for Americans. In my opinion annexation was a lose-lose scenario, that only benefitted a narrow private business interest (sugar).
Then when Hawaii gained statehood 60 years later, it compounded the lose-lose arrangement. The US absorbed a society with political power, that was fundamentally incompatible with a Western society.. and the native Hawaiians were deracinated.

I'm not really a fan of America's 'benevolent' imperialism. I believe we could return Hawaii to basically a sovereign kingdom, while maintaining a friendly relationship with them. Being in the middle of the Pacific makes Hawaii a valuable location for international traveling & military. So I forsee the US sustaining a military relationship. But that could be done even if Hawaii was no longer a state.
The problem tho, native Hawaii has been pretty thoroughly deracinated & colonized..so the Hawaiian independence movement is fading fast, or is more interested in arrangements that replicate mainland Indian arrangements with the Federal government.. which are more lose-lose. And I get the logistics of Americans who would want to leave a newly sovereign Hawaii would be hard, but.. Just my opinion..
and I have a similar take on why Puerto Rico should be given full independence & shouldn't be admitted as a state.

I just learned something new, thanks. What you said makes sense. Is this book you're reading now the best on the subject ?
 

Babe Ruth

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I just learned something new, thanks. What you said makes sense. Is this book you're reading now the best on the subject ?
Last Among Equals is a good, comprehensive history of Hawaiian annexation & statehood. Was written in the 80s, so it took me a while to find a copy that (I felt) was affordable, but.. I do think all the issues are still relevant 40 years after this book was written, tho it seems that Hawaiian sovereignty is a fading issue.
Back in the 90s (on the 100th anniversary of annexation), Clinton issued a formal apology to the native Hawaiians.. which in my opinion was a completely worthless virtue-signal. And there was a Republican Senator (Gorton) who basically responded to Clinton's hollow apology and said, if we recognize that annexing Hawaii was wrong, shouldn't we be working to return their independence? And it probably was a partisan effort to embarass Clinton, but the guy wasn't wrong.

I actually got in to Hawaii's history (with America), reading about Grover Cleveland. He was the prez at the time, and actually tried to prevent annexation, but powerful sugar interests were working against his principled position. Cleveland is an underrated president.. but that would be another long post.
 
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Thucydides

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Another one started last year, finishing today .

If you're interested in sci fi, aliens, string theory, quantum physics, immortality, etc this is for you. The great thing about Kaku is that he breaks everything down, turning the extremely complex(string theory) into something anyone can understand.

8/10
 

Thucydides

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Last one started last year that I'm finishing. I'm about 50% done, and it's probably "the book" you'd want to read if you wanted to read a biography on Hitler.
 

Babe Ruth

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Feb 2, 2016
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Account of Jack Ruby's murder trial.. I saw the terrible Ruby movie back in the late 90s. But i thought it was time to do a dive in to the known facts of Ruby's killing of Oswald.
 
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Kane One

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Just finished Anansi Boys by Neil Gaiman about 15 minutes ago, and posted this to his subreddit. I thought I’d get some opinions from you guys here:

So I just read Anansi Boys and am I the only one disappointed by the ending? This is the first Neil Gaiman book I read so I’m not sure if he has any sort of pattern on how his books end, to be fair.

The whole book I felt bad for Charlie. Daisy and Rosie’s mom both knew that Spider and Charlie didn’t look alike, and at the end of the book when Rosie saw both Charlie and Spider together, she said how she now realizes they don’t look the same. So Rosie cheated on Charlie and got a happy ending.

I was hoping that Charlie and Spider would morph back together into one person how they used to be, and Rosie would apologize to Charlie, while Charlie ignores that apology and leaves her for Daisy.

Am I the only one?

Edit - also let me add that this isn’t to say I didn’t like the book, because it was definitely enjoyable, based on going through this sub for the first time I see it’s really well-regarded, and I knocked it off in only a couple days (I don’t read all that often so this is probably the quickest I’ve read a book since Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy). Maybe just my current mental state has me a bit more spiteful right now and way more anti-Rosie than other people here.
 
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Kane One

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Does anyone have any recommendations for books similar to Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy in its sarcasm, or anything even a tenth as funny?

The only thing that came close for me was Catch-22. I got a lot of Neil Gaiman recommendations, but Anansi Boys didn’t quite do it for me and it made me even more depressed than I was going into it.
 
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Thucydides

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Does anyone have any recommendations for books similar to Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy in its sarcasm, or anything even a tenth as funny?

The only thing that came close for me was Catch-22. I got a lot of Neil Gaiman recommendations, but Anansi Boys didn’t quite do it for me and it made me even more depressed than I was going into it.

If you want a challenge - David Foster Wallace - Infinite Jest.

If you've never read DFW before I would start with his non fiction to get a feel for his writing. He's extremely gifted. A supposedly fun thing I'll never do again, and consider the lobster are his two non fiction works. Both have laugh out loud moments. Plenty of them.

Infinite Jest is full of laugh out loud moments - if intelligent humour is what you're looking for I'd recommend DFW.
 
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Babe Ruth

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For people who remember FOX in it's hit or miss, edgy, early days.. this is a cool behind the scenes.
 

Thucydides

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I'm only 25% into this, but man, can Melville write! I've always heard this book being one that people couldn't get through , it's boring, or whatever , but I don't find it that way at all. The writing is very dense, however. Every page or two I find myself having to re-read a line or a paragraph and being blown away at his writing and his use of metaphor. I also had no idea that Moby Dick is also funny, some great little bits.

If you're a fan of great writing I would, so far, recommend!
 

Babe Ruth

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can Melville write!.. Every page or two I find myself having to re-read a line or a paragraph and being blown away at his writing and his use of metaphor.
I liked Melville's story Bartleby. I think we had to read it in high school. I don't really remember the quality of the writing, but it was psychologically interesting.
 
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Kane One

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Project Hail Mary is by the same author who wrote The Martian. It’s about this guy who wakes up from a coma on a spaceship on a mission to save earth from a catastrophic ice age about to come.

It was really fun and went really in-depth into science, and I wasn’t able to put it down.

It’s also apparently going to be made into a movie, so I’d definitely recommend reading it beforehand.

@Thucydides I ordered Infinite Jest and I should get it on Monday. I’ll let you know how that goes in the next couple weeks since I’ll probably start something else before I get it.
 
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Thucydides

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Project Hail Mary is by the same author who wrote The Martian. It’s about this guy who wakes up from a coma on a spaceship on a mission to save earth from a catastrophic ice age about to come.

It was really fun and went really in-depth into science, and I wasn’t able to put it down.

It’s also apparently going to be made into a movie, so I’d definitely recommend reading it beforehand.

@Thucydides I ordered Infinite Jest and I should get it on Monday. I’ll let you know how that goes in the next couple weeks since I’ll probably start something else before I get it.

Awesome man - so the first two hundred pages or so are going to be a bit much, but you'll get used to it and it'll start to flow after that. Just got to stick with it. I'm interested to hear your thoughts on it! :)
 
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Kane One

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Awesome man - so the first two hundred pages or so are going to be a bit much, but you'll get used to it and it'll start to flow after that. Just got to stick with it. I'm interested to hear your thoughts on it! :)
I just stopped by the bookstore because I was desperately out of books, so I picked up three different earth doomsday type of books like Project Hail Mary. I’ll read one of them before I start Infinite Jest, but I’ll definitely update you when I’m done!
 
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Hockey Outsider

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"On the Shortness of Life" (Seneca the Younger c. 46 – Penguin Great Ideas series, 2004)

First, a note on the Great Ideas series. Starting in 2004, Penguin has released 120 books under this banner. Although the majority of the texts can be categorized as (primarily Western) philosophy, some of the publications cover history, psychology, and politics. Each of the volumes is around 100 pages. As a result, some of the classic texts have been shortened, while others have been combined with other (less famous) compositions from the authors. The series was an inexpensive way to get a physical copy of some of the greatest essays ever written. The downside is the publications were spartan, and there's typically no explanatory information about the writer, their broader beliefs, and their historical context.

"On the Shortness of Life" was the first volume in the Great Ideas series. The essay was written by Seneca the Younger, a Roman politician, playwright, and Stoic philosopher. More than 100 of his philosophical texts have survived. (The majority of those are relatively short letters, which primarily discuss how to live a productive, dignified life. Although most of the letters are addressed to a friend, they were likely intended for a broader audience). This publication contains the namesake essay (which is fairly short – the English version is only around 11,000 words), along with two other selections.

I first read "On the Shortness of Life" a decade ago. Seneca argues that life, in fact, is not short, but most people waste their time. He compares a man's life to a ship that leaves the harbour during a storm; it may have been tossed around, but it didn't travel very far. Similarly, he says that even though a man has grey hairs or wrinkles, he hasn't necessarily lived for a long time - he may have merely existed for a long time. Seneca notes that although time is "the one thing in which it is right to be miserly", most people guard their money more carefully. He admonishes people for acting as if they have an unlimited amount of time, and for failing to recognize their mortality.

Seneca says that one can live a long, full life by not wasting time on frivolities, and living in the moment. I found the advice logical, though somewhat generic. (It's easy to understand that we shouldn't waste our time, but much tougher to put this into practice). Seneca's most interesting recommendation was to study philosophy, because doing so allows you to add the years of a philosopher's life to your own. He argues that the philosopher transcends the limits of mortality that most people face. Given that we're talking about Seneca's writings nearly two thousand years later, there's some truth to this idea. I would argue that this applies to all types of reading (not just philosophy).

The next essay is "Of Consolation to Helvia". After being exiled in approximately 41 AD, he wrote a long letter to his mother, reassuring her of his wellbeing. I found this the least interesting of the three works. Seneca tells his mother that although it's been appropriate for her to grieve, she must move on. Although his arguments are logical, they probably would have been useless in comforting his saddened mother. (It's possible that the true purpose of the essay was to espouse Stoic doctrines, which could explain the somewhat formal tone). He dedicates several paragraphs to talking about how humans have moved from one location to another throughout history, so his forced departure from Rome can't be inherently bad. (His argument is valid, but it was a long discussion about something that seems obvious). Seneca notes that although he may have lost his possessions, "very little is required to keep a man alive", and that he's really only lost "distractions". He ends the letter by reassuring his mother that he's "joyous and cheerful", and that he now has time to study philosophy and contemplate the universe. (This is consistent with the Stoic belief that events aren't inherently good or bad, and that we choose how to react to them). The letter's final, vivid paragraph was the most compelling section.

The final letter is "On the Tranquility of Mind". In the first section, Seneca writes from the perspective of his friend Annaeus Serenus, pleading for help with his malaise. Seneca's response covers many of the key themes of Stoic philosophy. This essay is less focused than the previous two, but the advice is more practical. He talks about the value of serving your community, being objective about your strengths, the dangers of accumulating excessive wealth or possessions, and the need to spend your time wisely. Seneca acknowledges that a person can't always remain focused, and the importance of making time for leisure. (He shares a very short but fascinating anecdote about Socrates playing with children). The most interesting part of the essay is Seneca's reflections on death. He wrote with admiration about the serene calmness of Julius Canus, a Stoic philosopher, before his execution. Seneca states that he'll never shed a tear for a man who dies, because everyone must face their final moments either cheerfully or sadly: "the former wipes away my tears, the latter by his tears makes himself unworthy that any should be shed for him". I don't think I've ever read a better reflection on dying well.

I dislike the formatting of this edition. Seneca generally wrote in long paragraphs, many spanning an entire page or more. The lack of spaces between paragraphs made the text harder to read.

Comparing this book to Marcus Aurelius's "Meditations", I find Seneca to be more verbose, and there's a much stronger emphasis on formulating rigourous logical arguments. Seneca is a much more thorough, analytical thinker. On the other hand, these letters are more abstract, and provide less practical guide than Aurelius's masterpiece. Both texts, despite being two thousand years old, have ideas that are still relevant in the 21st century. Seneca makes a plausible case that life isn't actually short – if you spend your time wisely. (Since I first read the namesake essay a decade ago, I've generally spent my time well, but should strive to work a bit less, and waste less time on frivolities).
 

Babe Ruth

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Feb 2, 2016
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Old book I'd been wanting to read.. The story of Gene Klein, who became wealthy & then purchased the (then) San Diego Chargers. Funny insights in to the financial and emotional ups & downs of owning a team.
Klein died in the early 90s, this seems like a good testament, but I still got a lot left.
 

Thucydides

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"On the Shortness of Life" (Seneca the Younger c. 46 – Penguin Great Ideas series, 2004)

First, a note on the Great Ideas series. Starting in 2004, Penguin has released 120 books under this banner. Although the majority of the texts can be categorized as (primarily Western) philosophy, some of the publications cover history, psychology, and politics. Each of the volumes is around 100 pages. As a result, some of the classic texts have been shortened, while others have been combined with other (less famous) compositions from the authors. The series was an inexpensive way to get a physical copy of some of the greatest essays ever written. The downside is the publications were spartan, and there's typically no explanatory information about the writer, their broader beliefs, and their historical context.

"On the Shortness of Life" was the first volume in the Great Ideas series. The essay was written by Seneca the Younger, a Roman politician, playwright, and Stoic philosopher. More than 100 of his philosophical texts have survived. (The majority of those are relatively short letters, which primarily discuss how to live a productive, dignified life. Although most of the letters are addressed to a friend, they were likely intended for a broader audience). This publication contains the namesake essay (which is fairly short – the English version is only around 11,000 words), along with two other selections.

I first read "On the Shortness of Life" a decade ago. Seneca argues that life, in fact, is not short, but most people waste their time. He compares a man's life to a ship that leaves the harbour during a storm; it may have been tossed around, but it didn't travel very far. Similarly, he says that even though a man has grey hairs or wrinkles, he hasn't necessarily lived for a long time - he may have merely existed for a long time. Seneca notes that although time is "the one thing in which it is right to be miserly", most people guard their money more carefully. He admonishes people for acting as if they have an unlimited amount of time, and for failing to recognize their mortality.

Seneca says that one can live a long, full life by not wasting time on frivolities, and living in the moment. I found the advice logical, though somewhat generic. (It's easy to understand that we shouldn't waste our time, but much tougher to put this into practice). Seneca's most interesting recommendation was to study philosophy, because doing so allows you to add the years of a philosopher's life to your own. He argues that the philosopher transcends the limits of mortality that most people face. Given that we're talking about Seneca's writings nearly two thousand years later, there's some truth to this idea. I would argue that this applies to all types of reading (not just philosophy).

The next essay is "Of Consolation to Helvia". After being exiled in approximately 41 AD, he wrote a long letter to his mother, reassuring her of his wellbeing. I found this the least interesting of the three works. Seneca tells his mother that although it's been appropriate for her to grieve, she must move on. Although his arguments are logical, they probably would have been useless in comforting his saddened mother. (It's possible that the true purpose of the essay was to espouse Stoic doctrines, which could explain the somewhat formal tone). He dedicates several paragraphs to talking about how humans have moved from one location to another throughout history, so his forced departure from Rome can't be inherently bad. (His argument is valid, but it was a long discussion about something that seems obvious). Seneca notes that although he may have lost his possessions, "very little is required to keep a man alive", and that he's really only lost "distractions". He ends the letter by reassuring his mother that he's "joyous and cheerful", and that he now has time to study philosophy and contemplate the universe. (This is consistent with the Stoic belief that events aren't inherently good or bad, and that we choose how to react to them). The letter's final, vivid paragraph was the most compelling section.

The final letter is "On the Tranquility of Mind". In the first section, Seneca writes from the perspective of his friend Annaeus Serenus, pleading for help with his malaise. Seneca's response covers many of the key themes of Stoic philosophy. This essay is less focused than the previous two, but the advice is more practical. He talks about the value of serving your community, being objective about your strengths, the dangers of accumulating excessive wealth or possessions, and the need to spend your time wisely. Seneca acknowledges that a person can't always remain focused, and the importance of making time for leisure. (He shares a very short but fascinating anecdote about Socrates playing with children). The most interesting part of the essay is Seneca's reflections on death. He wrote with admiration about the serene calmness of Julius Canus, a Stoic philosopher, before his execution. Seneca states that he'll never shed a tear for a man who dies, because everyone must face their final moments either cheerfully or sadly: "the former wipes away my tears, the latter by his tears makes himself unworthy that any should be shed for him". I don't think I've ever read a better reflection on dying well.

I dislike the formatting of this edition. Seneca generally wrote in long paragraphs, many spanning an entire page or more. The lack of spaces between paragraphs made the text harder to read.

Comparing this book to Marcus Aurelius's "Meditations", I find Seneca to be more verbose, and there's a much stronger emphasis on formulating rigourous logical arguments. Seneca is a much more thorough, analytical thinker. On the other hand, these letters are more abstract, and provide less practical guide than Aurelius's masterpiece. Both texts, despite being two thousand years old, have ideas that are still relevant in the 21st century. Seneca makes a plausible case that life isn't actually short – if you spend your time wisely. (Since I first read the namesake essay a decade ago, I've generally spent my time well, but should strive to work a bit less, and waste less time on frivolities).

Great review. Loved that book, too. Really changed my thinking about life and death.

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I've got to read something else along with Moby Dick. The first 25% was fantastic, but after that he dives into so many pages all devoted to whaling, parts of the whale, whale oil, whale blubber. It's like Bubba from Forest Gump talking about shrimp after awhile.
 
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GB

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I've got to read something else along with Moby Dick. The first 25% was fantastic, but after that he dives into so many pages all devoted to whaling, parts of the whale, whale oil, whale blubber. It's like Bubba from Forest Gump talking about shrimp after awhile.
That's pretty close to my feeling when I read it. The start surprised me, I wasn't aware how queer it was, but then the encyclopaedic entries wore away at my enthusiasm. I knew they were coming & individually I did enjoy them but it turned the novel into something of a shaggy dog story and I don't have much tolerance for those. Having said that I don't in anyway regret reading it.
 
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Thucydides

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Dec 24, 2009
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That's pretty close to my feeling when I read it. The start surprised me, I wasn't aware how queer it was, but then the encyclopaedic entries wore away at my enthusiasm. I knew they were coming & individually I did enjoy them but it turned the novel into something of a shaggy dog story and I don't have much tolerance for those. Having said that I don't in anyway regret reading it.

Agreed! The beginning was so good, and I figured the rest of the book would proceed in that manner, which even with the density of the prose I would have enjoyed, but no, it turned into chapter after chapter of , like you said, encyclopaedic whaling entries. Luckily the chapters are extremely short, so you're able to read a couple and put it down.

By the way, I haven't seen you in forever. How have you been? You still reading lots? Any favourites lately? I still have to thank you for getting me into Ali Smith. I enjoyed the "seasons" books.
 
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