Bobby Hull legacy thread (see admin warning post #1)

[daver]

Do you? Not sure how else they plan on handling the period from 1979 to 2003 in their history, which involved at least two major wars and then ended with a third that completely changed their nation.

I give no shits about athletes conforming to my moral compass. I do think that when a man is talked about and being lionized by a segment of a fan base that their whole life should be put into context when appropriate. Like Hull was a wife beating POS and an exceptional hockey player. Those that want to avoid one half of the story are the ones that actively want to ignore a piece of reality to suit their agenda. Those actions were real. They happened. Pretending they didn't serves no one but the man who perpetrated them.

My agenda is to enjoy sports and sports only here on HFboards, and in general.

 

[Bear of Bad News]

My agenda is to enjoy sports and sports only here on HFboards, and in general.

And yet you made it through the first post in this thread and decided to not just hang around, but pitch a tent?

 

[daver]

What a bunch of nonsense. You said were indifferent to his terrible actions. That's a gross comment, simple as that. Now go ahead and move the goal posts around like usual.

I said "There is a difference between pretending what he did wasn't terrible (noone on this thread is remotely coming close to inferring this as far as I can tell) and being indifferent to it for reasons that do not need to be explained."

Did not say I was indifferent. Merely pointing out that people are trigger happy to show their virtue online, in this case desperately looking for anyone who isn't meeting the level of outrage and disgust established by groupthink.

But if it makes you happy thinking that spousal abuse doesn't move the emotional needle for me, go right ahead. I am sure you will sleep well tonight knowing you called out some anonymous poster.

And yet you made it through the first post in this thread and decided to not just hang around, but pitch a tent?

Hard to enjoy HFboards when we now have to qualify any mention of Hull with "noted serial spousal abuser" lest anyone appreciate his hockey contribution without knowing the whole story.

Sorry for not toeing the "Hull is POS" narrative. I guess I ruined what was destined to be one heck of a thread.

 

[Bear of Bad News]

Merely pointing out that people are trigger happy to show their virtue online,

And you're immune to this phenomenon somehow?

 

[Bear of Bad News]

Hard to enjoy HFboards when we now have to qualify any mention of Hull with "noted serial spousal abuser" lest anyone appreciate his hockey contribution without know the whole story.

Skip the thread and move on if you don't want to read about it. You clearly like being in this thread - you seem to be "enjoying HFBoards" quite a bit the last few days.

 

[Walkingthroughforest]

It is official. Hfboards now makes assurances who is in Hell now with former players. Okay, do Beliveau, Shore, Howe, Lindsay and Richard next.



The fact we don't know, is enough for me not to join in the ugliness I have seen on the main boa.........I mean HOH.

The man played some insane hockey, that much I know, I don't know the rest, and I am glad he did what he did in the NHL.

Your responses are really disappointing. I mean, seriously disappointing, especially for a poster like myself, and likely many others, who have respected you and your content for years.

How you’re manipulating the tone and content of this thread is upsetting. The only thing that 99% of all the posters are saying in this thread is that Bobby was both a legendary hockey player and a documented serial abuser, and both of these things are valid. You say you’re not downplaying his history of abuse, but every chance you get you do just that, as you said above.

This man was not a product of the times. I know enough people who were alive in the 1980’s who didn’t beat their wives with shoes and attempt to murder them by nearly throwing them over a balcony.

Food for thought. If Bobby was 27, playing today and these exact same instances came to light, he would never play another NHL game again and it would have been well deserved.

Really, really disappointing, Phil.

 

[DaaaaB's]

I said "There is a difference between pretending what he did wasn't terrible (noone on this thread is remotely coming close to inferring this as far as I can tell) and being indifferent to it for reasons that do not need to be explained."

Did not say I was indifferent. Merely pointing out that people are trigger happy to show their virtue online, in this case desperately looking for anyone who isn't meeting the level of outrage and disgust established by groupthink.

But if it makes you happy thinking that spousal abuse doesn't move the emotional needle for me, go right ahead. I am sure you will sleep well tonight knowing you called out some anonymous poster.



Hard to enjoy HFboards when we now have to qualify any mention of Hull with "noted serial spousal abuser" lest anyone appreciate his hockey contribution without knowing the whole story.

Sorry for not toeing the "Hull is POS" narrative. I guess I ruined what was destined to be one heck of a thread.

Ok whatever, I'm sure you have good reasons for being indifferent to his spousal abuse. It's hilarious that you're calling people trigger happy and outraged when you're the one freaking out on everyone who says he wasn't a good guy. You also keep saying you now have to qualify blah blah blah when that's not true at all. I'm pretty sure it won't get brought up if someone mentions Hull in a thread about the best goalscorers of all-time and nor should it. This thread is about his legacy though and that goes beyond hockey.

 

[Bocephus86]

My agenda is to enjoy sports and sports only here on HFboards, and in general.

If this is your agenda then why are you actively reading and posting in a thread that is designed to talk about the whole man? No one is forcing you to participate or read about the reality of the sports heroes you worship, you are free to go back and keep your focus solely on the game and ignore the whole picture. That is fine, no one is telling you that you cannot. But you are also not able to police the rest of the world and what those in it want to discuss. Or, dare I say, cancel those discussions.

 

[Jets4Life]

Food for thought. If Bobby was 27, playing today and these exact same instances came to light, he would never play another NHL game again and it would have been well deserved.

Considering that both Patrick and Evander Kane have had similar problems, I really doubt it.

 

[blueandgoldguy]

It's pretty hard to reconcile the man who was by all accounts a great teammate and consummate professional on-the ice, along with the great interactions he had with fans (Hull was known for staying late after games to sign everyone's autograph) with the awful person he was off the ice with his family. If only he showed the same amount of care and consideration for those close to him as he did for the game of hockey and its fans.

As for his career, I guess he presents one of the more interesting "what-if" scenarios of hockey greats. What if he had stayed in the NHL for an additional 5 - 7 years? Would he have scored 800 goals? 850? Maybe an outside chance at having more goals than Gretzky? Total points somewhere between 1600 - 1750?

I noticed in another thread that a big Ovie supporter who has a user name that rhymes with Daylight Nudges stated that he had greater longevity than Hull. Um, how is that? Hull was tied for second in the league with 50 goals and 7th in points before he left for the WHA at the age of 33. He still had a lot more to give by all accounts. And he went on to dominate the WHA winning 2 MVP awards and scoring 303 goals in 411 games.

 

[Walkingthroughforest]

Considering that both Patrick and Evander Kane have had similar problems, I really doubt it.

Neither Evander Kane nor Patrick Kane’s accusations are even close to holding the criminal validity to Bobby’s confirmed, serial criminal abuse.

Joanne described his actions in detail, on record, and his children confirmed her account. That’s such nonsense and you should feel embarrassed just by saying that.

A better comparison would be Slava Voynov, who is suspended indefinitely from the NHL after his domestic violence became public.

 

[Jets4Life]

Neither Evander Kane nor Patrick Kane’s accusations are even close to holding the validity to Bobby’s confirmed, serial abuse.

They are actually worse. I don't want to get into what either Kane has done, but at the very least, Bobby Hull has never been accused of rape, among other things.

 

[Walkingthroughforest]

They are actually worse. I'm not going to get into what either Kane has done, but at the very least, Bobby Hull has never been accused of rape.

Use better reading comprehension. Validity of accusations. Both the Kane’s have been accused of pretty vile things that haven’t held up criminally due to lack of evidence.

Bobby is not that case. There is no doubt he did those things. That is the clear distinction between those situations.

 

[Jets4Life]

Use better reading comprehension. Validity of accusations. Both the Kane’s have been accused of pretty vile things that haven’t held up due to lack of evidence.

Bobby is not that case. There is no doubt he did those things. That is the clear distinction between those situations.

Evander Kane abuse accusation #1 ( ex-wife):

Evander Kane’s wife Anna alleges physical, sexual abuse in restraining order filing

Evander Kane abuse accusation #2 (rape case) Evander Kane's lawyer says player has settled lawsuit with Buffalo woman

Evander Kane chokes woman at nightclub, assaults bouncer: https://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/nhl/kane-buffalo-charged-1.3691108

Evander Kane putting teammates health and safety at risk: NHL suspends Evander Kane for 21 games over COVID-19 vaccination status | Globalnews.ca

Evander Kane abortion lawsuit: Judge rules Sharks' Evander Kane must face discovery in abortion-for-pay lawsuit

Evander Kane sued in BC for assault: Jets' Evander Kane sued over alleged Vancouver assault


Then again, I suppose all these people are just making things up. After all, pro athletes that make millions of dollars have never bought their way out of legal problems before...

 

[Walkingthroughforest]

Evander Kane abuse accusation #1 (against ex-wife):

Evander Kane’s wife Anna alleges physical, sexual abuse in restraining order filing

Evander Kane abuse accusation #2 (rape case) Evander Kane's lawyer says player has settled lawsuit with Buffalo woman

Evander Kane chokes woman at nightclub, assaults bouncer: https://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/nhl/kane-buffalo-charged-1.3691108

Evander Kane putting teammates health and safety at risk: NHL suspends Evander Kane for 21 games over COVID-19 vaccination status | Globalnews.ca

Evander Kane abortion lawsuit: Judge rules Sharks' Evander Kane must face discovery in abortion-for-pay lawsuit

Evander Kane sued in BC for assault: Jets' Evander Kane sued over alleged Vancouver assault


Then again, I suppose all these people are just making things up. After all, pro athletes that make millions of dollars have never bought their way out of legal problems before...

I am not saying they are making things up. I’m saying that there isn’t enough evidence to prove Kane committed criminal actions beyond a reasonable doubt, as noted in your second article which is discussing a civil case.

I know Evander Kane. I’ve dealt with him personally for years. He’s been nothing but human trash and I believe he did all those things. But that isn’t enough proof.

Bobby Hull beat his wife bloody for years and did it beyond a reasonable doubt. That’s the difference.

The fact you’ve completely glossed over Slava Voynov, who is a clear example of the consequences of criminal abuse on an NHL career, is telling.

 

[daver]

If this is your agenda then why are you actively reading and posting in a thread that is designed to talk about the whole man? No one is forcing you to participate or read about the reality of the sports heroes you worship, you are free to go back and keep your focus solely on the game and ignore the whole picture. That is fine, no one is telling you that you cannot. But you are also not able to police the rest of the world and what those in it want to discuss. Or, dare I say, cancel those discussions.

How many posts in here are insisting that the whole man needs to be discussed regardless of context? That is policing the rest of the world.

The bolded post is the apparent justification for this policing; that someone has an agenda to not take spousal abuse as serious as any normal human being should. And it is better to presume that anyone who is not on board with the narrative has to secretly have this agenda.

 

[Voight]

They are actually worse. I'm not going to get into what either Kane has done, but at the very least, Bobby Hull has never been accused of rape, among other things.

The only "bad" thing Patrick Kane ever did was the cab driver tussle.

If you are referencing the false rape accusations from 2015 - those were thrown out when it became clear that it was an attempted shakedown by the girl and her mother.

 

[Bocephus86]

How many posts in here are insisting that the whole man needs to be discussed regardless of context? That is policing the rest of the world.

The bolded post is the apparent justification for this policing; that someone has an agenda to not take spousal abuse as serious as any normal human being should. And it is better to presume that anyone who is not on board with the narrative has to secretly have this agenda.

Very few, if any? I'm certainly not. Yet you are continuing to participate in a discussion about the whole man and complaining about it. You are not required to participate in a discussion that hurts your feelings.

I don't even understand your second paragraph. If I was coming into the other Bobby Hull thread saying that we must also discuss his domestic violence history that maybe you'd have a point. Hell, the HF mods decided to keep that focused on hockey only and opened this one to discuss everything. Yet that isn't enough for you. You've now spent days in this thread trying to shut down the discussion. Its odd.

 

[daver]

Very few, if any? I'm certainly not. Yet you are continuing to participate in a discussion about the whole man and complaining about it. You are not required to participate in a discussion that hurts your feelings.

I don't even understand your second paragraph. If I was coming into the other Bobby Hull thread saying that we must also discuss his domestic violence history that maybe you'd have a point. Hell, the HF mods decided to keep that focused on hockey only and opened this one to discuss everything. Yet that isn't enough for you. You've now spent days in this thread trying to shut down the discussion. Its odd.

The thread is called the "Bobby Hull legacy thread", Not "Bobby Hull, the whole man, legacy".

People are choosing to define him by his off-ice stuff and some clearly have an issue with those who choose to not see things in terms as black and white as "Hull was a POS" and then paint themselves as being on the higher moral ground to justify their black and white stance.

 

[Jets4Life]

The only "bad" thing Patrick Kane ever did was the cab driver tussle.

If you are referencing the false rape accusations from 2015 - those were thrown out when it became clear that it was an attempted shakedown by the girl and her mother.

Patrick Kane's 2012 bender: Reconstructing Patrick Kane's Drunken Weekend In Madison, With Eyewitness Testimony

Dozens of people witnessed Kane choking out a college woman at a frat party (that he didn't even know), then witnessed him assaulting other people in a drunken bender.

Rape is one of the hardest cries to prosecute. There are several starting NFL Quarterbacks that would be in prison right now, if it was easier to get a conviction. Whether we like to admit it or not, money buys justice in America. Hell, Ben Roethlisberger was a serial rapist, yet he remained virtually unpunished throughout his NFL career.

Despite what a member posted about things being "different" today, as opposed to when Bobby Hull played in the 60s/70s, this is obviously incorrect. In fact, an argument can be made that players today are far more likely to get away with criminal behaviour than 50 years ago, considering how much money is invested into pro sports today, as opposed to half a century ago

I love how the same people who literally want to burn Bully Hull at the stake, are going through hoops trying to defend current NHL players transgressions.

PS...It's interesting how you minimise beating up an innocent 62 year old cab driver, by placing the word "bad" in quotation marks.

 

[Bocephus86]

The thread is called the "Bobby Hull legacy thread", Not "Bobby Hull, the whole man, legacy".

People are choosing to define him by his off-ice stuff and some clearly have an issue with those who choose to not see things in terms as black and white as "Hull was a POS" and then paint themselves as being on the higher moral ground to justify their black and white stance.

"It's still a bit early in the overall timeline, but many people want to talk about Bobby Hull's full legacy, away from the typical decorum in a death announcement thread.

So here we are - have at it. Re-read the rules below (I just developed these off the top of my head, so if you want to suggest other rules and/or argue what I've got here, feel free). We're going to do our best."

Very first post in this thread. The point of this thread has been pointed out to you multiple times. You press on however. Strange how much effort you want to put into trying to police and/or cancel this conversation.

To be frank, someone that wants to ignore and/or dismiss verified and documented domestic abuse all because the guy was good at sports is not someone I would consider highly moral.

 

[Jets4Life]

The fact you’ve completely glossed over Slava Voynov, who is a clear example of the consequences of criminal abuse on an NHL career, is telling.

How have I glossed over Slava Voynov, when I never even mentioned him? I have other things to do, than to examine every single star NHL player, for legal beefs.

However, if we must go there, the Voynov case was so serious that Police initially considered charging Voynov with attempted murder, and the location of the assault looked like a homicide scene, considering there was so much blood. The women spend days in the hospital, suffering from multiple lacerations.

Voynov was found guilty in a court of law, and took a plea bargain and served jail time. Voynov was also not a permanent resident of either Canada or the United States, so he had his work visa revoked. If Voynov was a North American citizen, chances are he would have been reinstated in the NHL (most likely no later than 2016, if he was a citizen).

Voynov wasn't even eligible to re-apply for a work visa until 2018, and there is no guarantee he would be granted one due to his criminal conviction. It certainly didn't stop Voynov from playing in the KHL or going on to compete in the 2018 Olympic Games. A better comparison may be Austin Watson, who was convicted of domestic violence in 2018, and only suspended 18 games. IF Watson was a star player like Kane, he most likely would have have a more lenient suspension, if any.

I also find it very bizarre and telling that you actually state that "Evader Kane has never been found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt" when Bobby Hull was never convicted of domestic violence in a court of law. Like CCTV, multiple nightclub staff, and patrons are not to be believed. And of course Kane's fake Vaccination card (which put his own teammates health at risk) must have just been "a misunderstanding."

The mental gymnastics people here are going through to make Hull the worst person ever to play hockey, are amusing, to say the least.

 

[Walkingthroughforest]

How have I glossed over Slava Voynov, when I never even mentioned him? I have other things to do, than to examine every single star NHL player, for legal beefs.

However, if we must go there, the Voynov case was so serious that Police initially considered charging Voynov with attempted murder, and the location of the assault looked like a homicide scene, considering there was so much blood. The women spend days in the hospital, suffering from multiple lacerations.

Voynov was found guilty in a court of law, and took a plea bargain and served jail time. Voynov was also not a permanent resident of either Canada or the United States, so he had his work visa revoked. If Voynov was a North American citizen, chances are he would have been reinstated in the NHL (most likely no later than 2016, if he was a citizen). Austin Watson was convicted of domestic violence in 2018, and was only suspended 18 games. IF Watson was a star player like Kane, he most likely would have have a more lenient suspension, if any.

Voynov wasn't even eligible to re-apply for a work visa until 2018, and there is no guarantee he would be granted one due to his criminal conviction. It certainly didn't stop Voynov from playing in the KHL or going on to compete in the 2018 Olympic Games. A better comparison may be Sean Burke, and his domestic violence issues in the mid-late 90s, which were made public at the time.

I also find it very bizarre and telling that you actually state that "Evader Kane has never been found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt" when Bobby Hull was never convicted of domestic violence in a court of law. Like CCTV, multiple nightclub staff, and patrons are not to be believed. And of course Kane's fake Vaccination card (which put his own teammates health at risk) must have just been "a misunderstanding."The mental gymnastics people here are going through to make Hull the worst person ever to play hockey, are amusing, to say the least.

The mental hoops you’re going through are fascinating.

If you think I’m defending Evander Kane at all, you’re insane. I don’t agree with how the NHL has dealt with his behaviour, especially the vaccine passport crap.

But there is a clear difference between the accusations that his ex-wife brought forward and the accusations of Joanne with the eye witness accounts of his kids to confirm it. Bobby’s case never went to court, but if it did with that testimony (especially today), there would be little doubt he’d be facing a serious conviction.

The severity of Bobby’s abuse is nowhere close to the Austin Watson situation, which is not me defending Watson. There’s a difference in severity between that incident and Hull’s pathological, serial abuse.

Slava Voynov is still eligible to work in North America as he was granted dismissal of his misdemeanor domestic abuse conviction on 2 July 2018. The NHL held up his suspension until late 2020. This was due to a singular known incident of him beating his wife bloody. If it came out during Hull’s career that he was engaging in this behaviour pathologically, the consequences would be much worse.

I honestly don’t even understand what you’re defending here. The fact that you have a problem with the statement that Bobby Hull wouldn’t play an NHL game today if this abuse was found out is a lot more telling of your character than anything.

 

[Jets4Life]

The mental hoops you’re going through are fascinating.

If you think I’m defending Evander Kane at all, you’re insane. I don’t agree with how the NHL has dealt with his behaviour, especially the vaccine passport crap.

But there is a clear difference between the accusations that his ex-wife brought forward and the accusations of Joanne with the eye witness accounts of his kids to confirm it. Bobby’s case never went to court, but if it did with that testimony (especially today), there would be little doubt he’d be facing a serious conviction.

The severity of Bobby’s abuse is nowhere close to the Austin Watson situation, which is not me defending Watson. There’s a difference in severity between that incident and Hull’s pathological, serial abuse.

Slava Voynov is still eligible to work in North America as he was granted dismissal of his misdemeanor domestic abuse conviction on 2 July 2018. The NHL held up his suspension until late 2020. This was due to a singular known incident of him beating his wife bloody. If it came out during Hull’s career that he was engaging in this behaviour pathologically, the consequences would be much worse.

I honestly don’t even understand what you’re defending here. The fact that you have a problem with the statement that Bobby Hull wouldn’t play an NHL game today if this abuse was found out is a lot more telling of your character than anything.

Do you honestly believe Slava Voynov only assaulted his wife once? Do you know anything about domestic violence whatsoever? People who beat their spouses rarely ever just "snap." It a cycle of abuses that usually takes place over a prolonged period of time. Hell, we learned about this in high school. Why do you think Voynov's wife was begging authorities not to press charges? She was the classic domestic violence victim.

You constantly move the goalposts:

Evander Kane? "nothing has been proven beyond a reasonable doubt"

Slava Yovnov? " it only occurred once!"

Auston Watson? "It was a minor incident when compared to Hull!"

Bobby Hull? "he was a monster who was far worse than Voynov, Austin, and Kane combined!!"'

OK we get it, you have a personal vendetta against Hull, and really care about being right more than any moral misgiving about Hull, since you certainly would not be downplaying what Kane, Watson and Voynov did.

PS...if Bobby Hull hypothetically was charged with assaulting his wife today, he would most likely get a similar punishment as Austin. Probation and community service, one month in jail at the absolute worst. It's obvious you have no awareness of the judicial system in Canada or the United States either.

We will never know about the intimate details of the Voynov or Austin cases, since there is no public interest to find out. Voynov only played for 3 seasons, and was no superstar. Austin is a career journeyman. Even if they were 500+ goal scorers, the full extent of their abuses would probably not be known until long after they retired.

 

[Walkingthroughforest]

You keep contradicting yourself. Do you honestly believe Slava Voynov only assaulted his wife once? Do you know anything about domestic violence whatsoever? People who beat their spouses rarely ever just "snap." It a cycle of abuses that usually takes place over a prolonged period of time. Hell, we learned about this in high school. Why do you think Voynov's wife was begging authorities not to press charges? She was the classic domestic violence victim.

You constantly move the goalposts:

Evander Kane? "nothing has been proven beyond a reasonable doubt"

Slava Yovnov? " it only occurred once!"

Auston Watson? "It was a minor incident when compared to Hull!"

Bobby Hull? "he was a monster who was far worse than Voynov, Austin, and Kane combined!!"'

OK we get it, you have a personal vendetta against Hull, and really care about being right more than any moral misgiving about Hull, since you certainly would not be downplaying what Kane, Watson and Voynov did.

PS...if Bobby Hull hypothetically was charged with assaulting his wife today, he would most likely get a similar punishment as Austin. Probation and community service, one month in jail at the absolute worst. It's obvious you have no awareness of the judicial system in Canada or the United States either.

Reading comprehension and logical reasoning are really not your strong suit.

I never said that Voynov only beat her once. I said only one singular incident came to light and that was enough for the NHL to take the action it did.

Your manipulation is really gross and it’s very telling of your character.

I very clearly laid out what I said, and the fact you are choosing to deliberately misrepresent it is frankly embarrassing.

Let’s make things very clear, I know how the cycle of violence and the escalation of domestic abuse works.

1) Evander Kane. I know Evander and I have seen first hand the behaviours he’s been accused of. But there is no slam dunk evidence of it to brought to public light, especially with how his ex-wife’s credibility has been compromised on other topics. Everything else were incidents that were not deemed criminal, whether by circumstance or evidence. This is not me defending him, this is just a fact. With everything I know about Evander, I do not think he should be playing in this league.

2) Austin Watson. What he did was criminal and wrong. And there are varying degrees of criminal and wrong. That’s why we have different categories of severity for the same crime, such as manslaughter, 2nd degree murder, and 1st degree murder. The physical abuse he inflicted was not to the same violent level as Bobby beating a woman with a steel toed shoe and attempting to murder her by going to throw her over the balcony. That is not excusing or downplaying Watson’s violence because no one should be doing either. It is to make clear that there are many different levels and degrees of violence.

3) Slava Voynov. What he did was monstrous and there is no doubt in my mind it wasn’t contained to this single attack. However that single attack is the only record law enforcement and the NHL have on record. The severity of that punishment came from only that one known attack.

In no world am I downplaying any abuse and honestly, the person you’ve shown yourself as in this conversation is embarrassing and disgusting.

I have no personal vendetta against someone I don’t know, but that seems to be the response you have to anyone pushing back on you, which is a child’s argument.

I have been very clear in every one of my posts. Bobby Hull was a legendary hockey player who did great things for the game as well as a monstrous abuser who left many victims in his path. Both of those things are true.

The fact that people are having problems with that simple statement speaks worlds to me.