News Article: Bob McKenzie: Link Between Subban's Usage and Contract Negotiations (UPDATE OP)?

[Banjo Cat]

I don't think there should be rule regarding when speculative questions are addressed. The Habs have plenty of time for the media and are required to provide access. They're reason for being is for fans.

Well, when two journalists (one of whom most of us have never even heard of) suggest it based on nothing at all, I don't think they are in any need to address it.

 

[rockjngo]

people are nuts to think its a racist thing. The second goal was all Subban's fault. There was no need to pinch as a result, Subban was caught and Minny scored.

As a Hab fan Subban is high risk high reward. For team Canada, I think Subban might be left out. Sorry to say but I agree with Yzerman if he doesn't include Subban. Subban has a big shot but so does Shea Weber, Drew Doughty and Alex Pietrangelo all of whom don't take risks like Subban.

 

[TheGoalJudge]

Who said they're racist?

The article and people agreeing with it?

 

[hockeyfan2k11]

If PK wants more ice time he can always ask for a trade. If it's a battle between management and PK I doubt it's a battle PK can win.

I find it ironic that when Bergevin was sticking it to PK last year most of the posters here were all for it but now it's terrible how they're treating PK.

I had a problem with it. I know Kriss E did.

You're wrong on that one.

 

[habsfanatics*]

Our management are not a bunch of racists, I'm reasonably certain of that, however the perceptions of PK are shaped by opinions of others, when people say things largely negative all the time, and some of those saying the things are racists, which they are, some, probably not the overwhelming majority, but some, we can say that some of PK's treatment is fueled indirectly by racism.

It' not a difficult concept to grasp. When your told something over and over again, eventually you believe it, our management group is prone to this as well. It's why corporate media has been used to shape the opinions of millions for years.

most people don't do their homework, what they hear on TV, they believe. People hate him and don't even know why, if they ever listened to him speak, there's no way they could hate him. During the lockout he handled himself as well as anybody, him and said Sid the kid.

 

[habsfanatics*]

I had a problem with it. I know Kriss E did.

You're wrong on that one.

Same

 

[void]

The article and people agreeing with it?

Ok... I guess I must've read a different article.

 

[hockeyfan2k11]

Our management are not a bunch of racists, I'm reasonably certain of that, however the perceptions of PK are shaped by opinions of others, when people say things largely negative all the time, and some of those saying the things are racists, which they are, some, probably not the overwhelming majority, but some, we can say that some of PK's treatment is fueled indirectly by racism.

It' not a difficult concept to grasp. When your told something over and over again, eventually you believe it, our management group is prone to this as well. It's why corporate media has been used to shape the opinions of millions for years.

most people don't do their homework, what they hear on TV, they believe. People hate him and don't even know why, if they ever listened to him speak, there's no way they could hate him. During the lockout he handled himself as well as anybody, him and said Sid the kid.

Wow. Someone gets it.

 

[Banjo Cat]

I had a problem with it. I know Kriss E did.

You're wrong on that one.

I don't think he said all posters. I don't remember who was who. But I know a lot of people thought Subban were getting shafted. But I also remember a lot of people on HF boards in general were in agreement with Bergevin. I don't think they felt that way because they are all racist. More because he was a young RFA and some people have just seen enough young guys who showed so much promise go the other way. You may not agree with Bergevin's decision. I bet you Bergevin does not agree with it right now. But I think it was understandable.

 

[habsfanatics*]

This is just too good. The friggin article in the OP is saying Subban is being treated differently by management because he's black. And people in this thread are agreeing with the writer.

What does that mean? durrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

It means you didn't understand the article at all. Back to the drawing board for you.

 

[habitue*]

people are nuts to think its a racist thing. The second goal was all Subban's fault. There was no need to pinch as a result, Subban was caught and Minny scored.

As a Hab fan Subban is high risk high reward. For team Canada, I think Subban might be left out. Sorry to say but I agree with Yzerman if he doesn't include Subban. Subban has a big shot but so does Shea Weber, Drew Doughty and Alex Pietrangelo all of whom don't take risks like Subban.

Subban needs to play with a more defensive minded d-man, like Gorges or Murray. His mistakes would be less catastrophic.

 

[TheGoalJudge]

It means you didn't understand the article at all. Back to the drawing board for you.

You would certainly not expect a coach to hedge his words and limit the star's ice time. Yet this is the treatment we see for the league's best defender.

What could it be about PK that is different? I wish I knew. I wish I were smarter and could read between these lines that seem to be repeated time and time again in a veiled way. Such a mystery.

I guess I will never get answers to these questions because it is 2013 and we don't ask questions like these anymore. We are all so civilized, aren't we? There is always a safe reason to give, better than the unspoken one. We are at a point in society where the accusation is more serious than the veiled behaviour we dare not name.

Tell me what this means.

 

[MarkovsKnee]

Here's another write up about Subban from today by Ted Bird.. Touchy subject and one I wish we didn't have to read about.

The elephant in the room: racism and PK

http://tedbirddroppings.blogspot.ca/2013/11/the-elephant-in-room-racism-and-pk.html

Thanks for posting this. I agree with it. I do think racism is a lot of the reason why Subban is so heavily criticized. It's amazing how much press he gets over nothing. You don't see any Leafs player get the kind of criticism that Subban does, or any Sens player.

Part of it is his shear talent too. Crosby received heavy criticism everywhere too until he scored the "golden goal" and became Canada's golden boy.

It's easy to forget that Subban has only played 3 NHL seasons, and one of those seasons was shortened because of the lock-out. He is already an incredible talent. He's only going to get better. It would be better if people just appreciated the talent that he is, but it doesn't look like that's going to happen.

 

[Frozenice]

I had a problem with it. I know Kriss E did.

You're wrong on that one.

I posted on a lot of those threads and I would say it was 60% - 70% approved the way Bergevin handled things and they were going on about what a genius he was. To me it felt the numbers were against me saying it was the wrong thing to do.

To me nothing good comes out of treating players that way and I remember how dismissive posters here were. A lot of longer term posters also felt the way I did but it never felt like it was the majority of Hab fan's here thought we should of treated Subban differently.

 

[Hoople]

I don't think you understand the nuances of racism. I don't think many people do. To many, racism has to be blatant and in your face. I'm not going to say Bergy and Therrien are racist. Frankly, I don't know. But there is a lot of stuff that goes on in the league about PK that I believe is rooted in some form of racism. This isn't the place for this discussion though. I do think PK gets some unreal negative treatment though and hearing stuff like he has an NBA/NFL type personality makes my ears perk up.

I understand the "nuance" of racism. I also understand how easily it can be used as a crutch or a hammer.

In this case, there are some sensitive Subban fans who are not happy because he has not played "Norris-like" in the last four games.

It would be honest to say that he is having a bad game. But when a person is so emotionally invested in a personality, especially a charismatic young athlete like Subban, it is far more desirable to "blame someone else" for Subban's performance. And the narrative evolves and grows from there.

Despite having more ice time than most every other DMan in the League (except Karlsson..........damn that Karlsson), an excuse or blame is given. "Why doesnt Subban get more TOI? Therrien must hate Subban". It snowballs from there.

And when dealing with race, it is very very simple to convert that blame over to racism.

 

[Frankenheimer]

Well, when two journalists (one of whom most of us have never even heard of) suggest it based on nothing at all, I don't think they are in any need to address it.

Well, if you think there's nothing there, problem solved. I think it partly depends on the degree to which you think race is something to be concerned about in this context (the hockey context). It's not difficult for me to imagine as a factor.

 

[Schooner Guy]

This thread is unbelievable! Michel Therrien's job depends on him winning games. Whether you agree with his use of PK or not, he's trying to win. Call him a dummy or a bad coach if you like but PK's ice-time situations are not because his coach is a racist.

Brian Wilde's a joke.

 

[Kriss E]

Our management are not a bunch of racists, I'm reasonably certain of that, however the perceptions of PK are shaped by opinions of others, when people say things largely negative all the time, and some of those saying the things are racists, which they are, some, probably not the overwhelming majority, but some, we can say that some of PK's treatment is fueled indirectly by racism.

It' not a difficult concept to grasp. When your told something over and over again, eventually you believe it, our management group is prone to this as well. It's why corporate media has been used to shape the opinions of millions for years.

most people don't do their homework, what they hear on TV, they believe. People hate him and don't even know why, if they ever listened to him speak, there's no way they could hate him. During the lockout he handled himself as well as anybody, him and said Sid the kid.

That's one of the things that was most surprising to me. How some fans that are supposedly following this team, watching every game, listening to the interviews, decided to believe all the crap spewed out about PK during the lockout and agree with the idea that he was this greedy selfish player. I never understood that.

How can this kid who comes from such a well educated family, who's a professional through and through, never been caught in a bad situation, has amazing off season training, is always the last to come out and often the first to come on the ice, is the first to jump on a teammate or stick up for one, will suddenly be this selfish guy who's bigger than the team.

Didn't understand how fans just turned on him and sided with a rookie GM.

 

[Kriss E]

You don't hear a lot of things. You don't know how much Julien criticizes Chara. You don't know how much Therrien criticizes Subban. You don't know anything about their own private interactions. You don't know why Therrien criticizes Subban when he does. In the absence of evidence for any reason, assuming racism is irresponsible.

Except we did hear Therrien criticize him, sometimes unfairly, and I've yet to hear him give solid compliments. I've been saying this for a while.

The way PK has been used since last year, starting on the bottom pairing, on the 2nd PP wave, told to bring it down a notch because he's too flamboyant (what?), as Wilde said we never heard that Price needed to stop the triple low five, just PK, no Penalty Kill time, it wasn't up until Diaz got injured that he got promoted, his small contract, the way Therrien is hard on his star and seem to be the first to criticize him publicly, it just doesn't seem like they view this kid as this amazing young player.
At least that is not what I would expect such a special player to be treated.

Look at how Gallagher and Galchenyuk are being treated, look at how Price was..

 

[hockeyfan2k11]

I understand the "nuance" of racism. I also understand how easily it can be used as a crutch or a hammer.

In this case, there are some sensitive Subban fans who are not happy because he has not played "Norris-like" in the last four games.

It would be honest to say that he is having a bad game. But when a person is so emotionally invested in a personality, especially a charismatic young athlete like Subban, it is far more desirable to "blame someone else" for Subban's performance. And the narrative evolves and grows from there.

Despite having more ice time than most every other DMan in the League (except Karlsson..........damn that Karlsson), an excuse or blame is given. "Why doesnt Subban get more TOI? Therrien must hate Subban". It snowballs from there.

And when dealing with race, it is very very simple to convert that blame over to racism.

I think you'd have to be blind to dismiss all the stuff that has happened to PK. I mean, "play the white way"....how more direct does it have to be? The NHL is the same league that openly slights French players and Russians...but yet..with a black player they're completely fair? I don't believe it. It's an old boys league. There are words used to describe PK that would not be used on any other player. NBA, NFL, etc... What about him is NBA-like besides his race?

Noting that some of the criticism is racially based is not a crutch at all. The fact that you brought up Obama tells me exactly where your head's at. I have no idea why you even brought up the president of the US when we're talking about a Canadian hockey player..unless you're trying to push an agenda.

 

[Lebowski]

Reading this article was like putting my thoughts into words. I can't describe the feeling I'm slowly developing towards Therrien and Bergevin. What I use to think was a "wind of change" for Montréal suddenly starts to present itself under a different angle.

 

[habitue*]

Except we did hear Therrien criticize him, sometimes unfairly, and I've yet to hear him give solid compliments. I've been saying this for a while.

Therrien is answering the questions of the journalists. So, after a game in which PK made error(s), should he answer the journalist that PK played great ?

 

[Miller Time]

This thread is unbelievable! Michel Therrien's job depends on him winning games. Whether you agree with his use of PK or not, he's trying to win. Call him a dummy or a bad coach if you like but PK's ice-time situations are not because his coach is a racist.

Brian Wilde's a joke.

must be nice to live in such a rosy colored world...

ignorance is bliss they do say...

 

[hockeyfan2k11]

That's one of the things that was most surprising to me. How some fans that are supposedly following this team, watching every game, listening to the interviews, decided to believe all the crap spewed out about PK during the lockout and agree with the idea that he was this greedy selfish player. I never understood that.

How can this kid who comes from such a well educated family, who's a professional through and through, never been caught in a bad situation, has amazing off season training, is always the last to come out and often the first to come on the ice, is the first to jump on a teammate or stick up for one, will suddenly be this selfish guy who's bigger than the team.

Didn't understand how fans just turned on him and sided with a rookie GM.

I remember that negotiations thread. The stuff I read there was terrible. He's selfish...he's not that good...Diaz is better...trade him. So much garbage from "fans" of this team believing all the crap the media put out there.

 

[Born in 1909]

Too much PK talk lately with media types piling on.

Just too much.

Its absurd.