Proposal: Bo Horvat (pre-signed at around 8 mil) for Girard + Newhook + 1st + conditional 3rd

[wetcoast]

If the Avs could not and would not find the cap space to give Nazem Kadri $7 million after he put up 87 points in 71 games during a cup-winning season...then I highly doubt they are interested in committing that kinda money to Bo Horvat.

This was my second thought, right after how much they might miss a strong second line center come playoff time.

On the surface it's too one sided but if the Avs were healthy, ie had faith in Bryam being able to play long term then it would be one of thsoe win-win trades for both teams.

 

[Patagonia]

AVs don’t have the cap space regardless of the players offered. Doubt they would overpay salary and players for Horvat. He’s a good 2C and becoming less likely to be a trade option. AVs have so many players injured, Rants has been forced into the C role. He’s excelled ranking 11th overall in league scoring and could solve the need for a 2C.

A healthy team would have incredible C depth: Mackinnon, Rants, Compher & ERod. I just don’t believe Horvat would be necessary. VAN can get a better return with another team.

 

[IslesNorway]

No one ever gets traded for a package like that. That's what you'd pay for a superstar, not Bo Horvat.

 

[Barnaby]

That’s bonafide 1C locked up for multiple years at a bargain 5 million cap hit value.

That’s not Bo Horvat locked up to a gargantuan UFA AAV value. Locked up isn't just locked up. I don't think getting the guy locked in at top dollar adds much value unless the guy is a superstar. Vancouver reportedly offered much less and doesn't want to touch his asking price. So some team is going to absolutely blow them out of the water value wise to give it to him? If he had 3-4 more seasons at 4 million than different story altogether.

Who are the last forwards traded for this kinda value? Especially pending UFA's in season.

 

[bossram]

Absolutely the right move. Why give Bo leverage?

Nope. It's incredibly dumb.

They're just gonna cede less in a Horvat trade because...they can't let Horvat's camp get a "win"?

If you're gonna trade him, get the best possible return. Anything less is just being stupid.

 

[Ararana]

He'd instantly be the Avs leading goal scorer.

Funny how its mostly Avs fans who are calling the proposal laughable.

No bias in this thread at all.


He dismantled the St. Louis Blues in the playoffs.

March is not going to be a fun month for you, bud.

 

[Burke's Evil Spirit]

Nope. It's incredibly dumb.

They're just gonna cede less in a Horvat trade because...they can't let Horvat's camp get a "win"?

If you're gonna trade him, get the best possible return. Anything less is just being stupid.

The best possible return involves having the most bidders.

 

[wetcoast]

Cool. That's still not worth $8 million.

It is if someone pays him and it's not even a real free market either.

 

[bossram]

The best possible return involves having the most bidders.

And if the best bidder is willing to pay more for an extension, and you won't let them negotiate an extension...then what?

Just take the L.

 

[Peter Griffin]

And if the best bidder is willing to pay more for an extension, and you won't let them negotiate an extension...then what?

Just take the L.

The counter argument is if you allow Bo and his agent to start talking to teams you could just as easily eliminate a bunch of teams that Bo says he's unwilling to re-sign with, effectively giving him a NTC. The team acquiring Bo would effectively hold an advantage over any other team being able to offer him that 8th year, that's worth something.

Ottawa traded Mark Stone in a similar situation without an extension in place and got back a top prospect and a 2nd round pick, that's a pretty decent return.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

The counter argument is if you allow Bo and his agent to start talking to teams you could just as easily eliminate a bunch of teams that Bo says he's unwilling to re-sign with, effectively giving him a NTC. The team acquiring Bo would effectively hold an advantage over any other team being able to offer him that 8th year.

Ottawa traded Mark Stone in a similar situation without an extension in place and got back a top prospect and a 2nd round pick, that's a pretty decent return.

This isn't true at all. Stone was traded with an extension in place.

 

[Peter Griffin]

This isn't true at all. Stone was traded with an extension in place.

It appears you're correct. Not sure why Vegas waited two weeks to announce it though.

My guess is if the Horvat situation goes down to the wire like it did with Stone, Vancouver will allow teams to talk extension at that point. At this point, they probably are still hoping to re-sign him, but willing to listen on offers.

 

[Nucker42]

Canucks say no…. Pass on midget left hand d man who is injury prone.

Newhook has been very average and probably tops out as a 3rd liner.

So then the value is a low 1st? Nah. I really don’t think Colorado has the pieces.

 

[NOTENOUGHRYJOTHINGS]

The counter argument is if you allow Bo and his agent to start talking to teams you could just as easily eliminate a bunch of teams that Bo says he's unwilling to re-sign with, effectively giving him a NTC. The team acquiring Bo would effectively hold an advantage over any other team being able to offer him that 8th year, that's worth something.

Ottawa traded Mark Stone in a similar situation without an extension in place and got back a top prospect and a 2nd round pick, that's a pretty decent return.

Maybe the Canucks don't want other teams to figure out where Horvat wants to go long term and what Horvat wants long term.

Horvat is having a hell of a year but won't this be the first time he's ever crossed 70 points?

Horvat may have had bad wingers before this but the Canucks have had other top players that other teams had to cover. And a semi generational player on the blue line feeding passes to him.

 

[bossram]

The counter argument is if you allow Bo and his agent to start talking to teams you could just as easily eliminate a bunch of teams that Bo says he's unwilling to re-sign with, effectively giving him a NTC. The team acquiring Bo would effectively hold an advantage over any other team being able to offer him that 8th year, that's worth something.

Ottawa traded Mark Stone in a similar situation without an extension in place and got back a top prospect and a 2nd round pick, that's a pretty decent return.

Vegas pretty much already had an extension in place. He signed almost soon as he got there.

Letting Bo negotiate doesn't eliminate any teams. If the top bidder is still a team that sees him as a rental, then so be it. If the top bidder is one where Bo wants to re-sign, so be it.

 

[Peter Griffin]

Vegas pretty much already had an extension in place. He signed almost soon as he got there.

It was actually 11 days later he signed but they apparently had the parameters of the deal largely worked out. That was also deal made at the trade deadline though and I think it was a case where Stone just didn't want to stay in Ottawa and probably signed with Vegas for the same amount he turned down with Ottawa.

Letting Bo negotiate doesn't eliminate any teams. If the top bidder is still a team that sees him as a rental, then so be it. If the top bidder is one where Bo wants to re-sign, so be it.

My guess is the reason for not letting teams negotiate is because they still want to try to re-sign him.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

It appears you're correct. Not sure why Vegas waited two weeks to announce it though.

My guess is if the Horvat situation goes down to the wire like it did with Stone, Vancouver will allow teams to talk extension at that point. At this point, they probably are still hoping to re-sign him, but willing to listen on offers.

It's because Stone only signed a 1 year deal with Ottawa the summer before, to avoid arbitration. So they had to wait until a certain date before he was allowed to sign his next contract.

 

[Peter Griffin]

It's because Stone only signed a 1 year deal with Ottawa the summer before, to avoid arbitration. So they had to wait until a certain date before he was allowed to sign his next contract.

That date is January 1st to sign a 7 year or less extension or to be on the team's roster before the trade deadline to sign an 8 year deal, like Stone was when he was traded. There must've been another reason for the delay, Vegas' fans should know.

 

[bossram]

It was actually 11 days later he signed but they apparently had the parameters of the deal largely worked out. That was also deal made at the trade deadline though and I think it was a case where Stone just didn't want to stay in Ottawa and probably signed with Vegas for the same amount he turned down with Ottawa.


My guess is the reason for not letting teams negotiate is because they still want to try to re-sign him.

I mean yeah. Vegas essentially had the deal in place before he landed there. That's what I said.

I do think Allvin wants to sign Bo. Just he has to make a decision and execute. This is the same dumb waffling they did with Miller, where they oscillated from: Plan to re-sign him (but he was going to be too expensive) -> to trade at the TDL (didn't get the offers they wanted) -> trade in the summer (hoped the offers would be better) -> re-sign before training camp (because they need to save face).

Like, stop. Make a plan. Make a decision. Execute. Stop being reactionary.

 

[Peter Griffin]

Like, stop. Make a plan. Make a decision. Execute. Stop being reactionary.

I agree. Either lock this core group up and make the most out of it over the next 4 years, or start trading off some of the older pieces that need to be locked into longterm deals. If they only move Horvat and not Miller as well, they’re half-assing it. They’re not going to replace Horvat in the next 2-3 years, so what’s the point in having Miller around?

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

That date is January 1st to sign a 7 year or less extension or to be on the team's roster before the trade deadline to sign an 8 year deal, like Stone was when he was traded. There must've been another reason for the delay, Vegas' fans should know.

Again, not true.

Golden Knights, Mark Stone agree to eight-year extension

www.google.com

The contract couldn't officially be signed until March 1st.

 

[Burke's Evil Spirit]

And if the best bidder is willing to pay more for an extension, and you won't let them negotiate an extension...then what?

Just take the L.

And if Bo doesn't want to sign with the highest bidder, he won't, and the team will withdraw its offer.

 

[Djp]

This is true but what are the alternative options if not Horvat? I'm very curious to see what the Avs do this season at that 2C spot and how they do in the playoffs. That's a big hole to fill. Then what they do in the off season. How you do in the playoffs might change your strategy this coming summer

* ROR at age 32
* Monahan?
* Larkin (basically same narrative as Horvat)
* Krejci at age 38?
* Domi?
* Toews at age 36?
* Eller?
* Trade for Dubois who also likely askes for $8M?

Maybe ROR is the best fit. Not the ideal age but you should be able to get him around $5M - $6M range right? 3 year solution type thing?

the issue with Horvat is contract length.
maybe Colorado could resign him for just say 3 yr at $7M per cap hit. Thr big concerns are the lady 4 yrs of the contract.

It's because Stone only signed a 1 year deal with Ottawa the summer before, to avoid arbitration. So they had to wait until a certain date before he was allowed to sign his next contract.

on 1 yr contracts you have to wait till mid point of the season to resign him. This is usually january 1 but in recent years it’s varied.

if it’s an offer sheet match you have to wait 1 yr from the dates matched/ signed before he can be traded.

at the time of the trade he was not signed. He was traded for a player picked in mid 1st and a 2nd ( unsure if it was vegas or another teams) and a player who was an impending UFA. you need to factor in where the prospect was drafted/ evaluated at because a player drafted in the thr high teens are usually better than 2 1sts you get from a team picking 25-32. You aren’t going to be able to trade 2 of these picks like 24 and 28 and get a pick 14-16.

 

[bossram]

And if Bo doesn't want to sign with the highest bidder, he won't, and the team will withdraw its offer.

I'm not sure how you continue to not make any sense.

Three situations:

1. Teams that will trade for Bo purely as a rental.
2 Teams that will trade for an extended Bo.
3. Teams that will trade for Bo as a rental or extended.

You just take the best offer out of the 3 buckets. It doesn't matter which.

If you don't let other teams negotiate with Bo, then you're limiting yourself to one bucket of teams.

 

[Peter Griffin]

Again, not true.

Golden Knights, Mark Stone agree to eight-year extension

www.google.com

The contract couldn't officially be signed until March 1st.

https://cdn.nhlpa.com/img/assets/file/NHL_NHLPA_2013_CBA.pdf

According to the CBA at the time, Article 50(f)(iv) it was January 1st.

“A Player who is party to a one-year SPC may not enter into an "extension" of such SPC prior to January 1 of the League Year covered by such SPC.”


Either way, a contract extension with Stone was obviously part of the deal.