Proposal: Bo Horvat (pre-signed at around 8 mil) for Girard + Newhook + 1st + conditional 3rd

[McJedi]

Dont really see the fit in Ottawa they have Stutzle and Norris signed to long term at center with Pinto and Grieg in the system.

But yes some teams would value him more than others for sure.

I’m really saying teams like Ottawa and Winnipeg are rarely UFA destinations of choice. Vegas and the Avs are. So we don’t need someone else to sign a guy long term for us. Avs resigned both Lex and Manson. We can trade rental value for rentals.

Surely don’t need Vancouver’s crappy GM structuring deals for Colorado. We’d pay no premium for that. So the OPs thesis is a very flawed one and he ascribed a lot of value to something the Avs wouldn’t value at all.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

You found 4 guys? Wow. There has to be more than that. With your literally wrong narrative, I would have thought you could list at least 20 of them of the top of your head. Took you a long time to find those 4 guys bud

MacKinnon is showing decline over the last 2 years? OK, this conversation is done. Have a nice day

You asked for one, I provided 4.


I'm obviously not going to sit here and show you every single player. We'd literally be here for days because every player regresses as they hit 30. That's the reality.

And yeah, Mackinnon has shown signs of regression. Believe it or not, Points are not at all an indicator of what you're doing on the ice. Mackinnons defensive game has taken a step back in the last couple years and quite frankly so has his offensive game just a touch.

Its almost as if you have this lack of an understanding of what regression/decline means. I'm just assuming that's what is happening here. You associate decline/regression with being a bad player when that is not the case at all. A player can be regressing/declining and still be a very good player. Like Mackinnon right now.

 

[Stickpucker]

That package is more for a player like Eichel than Horvat.

 

[nammerus]

50 goal 85 point pace players that play all situations center ice and captain of their team are easily worth 8 million. Thats what he is currently doing. You probably thought Thompsons contract was bad too.

That's hilarious. A guy that has hit 30 goals once and having a lightning in a bottle season is now valued as a 50 goal scorer.

 

[wintersej]

Horvat, the way I see it, is exactly the kind of centerman teams are looking for comes the playoffs.

He's sturdy, he wins faceoffs, he can eat the hardest minutes against tougher competition, plus he's steady in the offensive department.

As for the comparison with Kadri, he's 4 years younger so commiting to him on a longer contract isn't as risky.

Anyways, I think his value will be up to the roof and the team that acquire him will want to pay premium assets only if they can have him longer than just a few months

I might be wrong, there's good chances it won't be Colorado but given their situation up front and the fact they're in their window, I'm sure Colorado will do something big between now and the TD.

When has Horvat shown he plays well against top competition?

 

[innitfam]

The Avs are giving up too much in this trade

 

[Diogenes92]

He'd instantly be the Avs leading goal scorer.

Funny how its mostly Avs fans who are calling the proposal laughable.

No bias in this thread at all.

When has Horvat shown he plays well against top competition?

He dismantled the St. Louis Blues in the playoffs.

 

[wintersej]

He'd instantly be the Avs leading goal scorer.

Funny how its mostly Avs fans who are calling the proposal laughable.

No bias in this thread at all.


He dismantled the St. Louis Blues in the playoffs.

I find it hard to believe a guy that was on the ice for less than 40% on ice scoring chance percentage was dominant, but I can’t say I watched that first round series.

 

[BKarchitect]

That's hilarious. A guy that has hit 30 goals once and having a lightning in a bottle season is now valued as a 50 goal scorer.

Trust us, we watch him every night - JT Miller is a legit star 1st line Hart candidate and there’s no reason to think this is an outlier year. He’s carried this team and you’d be lucky to trade a haul for him and sign him for the next 7-8 years.

- Canucks fans, circa February 2022

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

He'd instantly be the Avs leading goal scorer.

Funny how its mostly Avs fans who are calling the proposal laughable.

No bias in this thread at all.


He dismantled the St. Louis Blues in the playoffs.

And clearly the guy from North Vancouver isn't biased either.

 

[bert]

That's hilarious. A guy that has hit 30 goals once and having a lightning in a bottle season is now valued as a 50 goal scorer.

Did you even read the thread?

 

[Diogenes92]

I find it hard to believe a guy that was on the ice for less than 40% on ice scoring chance percentage was dominant, but I can’t say I watched that first round series.

The highlights are on Youtube if you're interested.

And clearly the guy from North Vancouver isn't biased either.

What did I say that was biased?

 

[El Travo]

He'd instantly be the Avs leading goal scorer.

Funny how its mostly Avs fans who are calling the proposal laughable.

No bias in this thread at all.


He dismantled the St. Louis Blues in the playoffs.

By one goal. He's also only reached 60 points in a season once. A single hot start does not make a guy worth this kind of package.

 

[bossram]

I can't imagine a trade for Horvat wouldn't include some sort of contract extension discussion.

I'd be shocked if Vancouver took a "pure rental" price. Especially at this point.

Reports are that Allvin is not allowing Bo's agent to discuss extensions with other teams (incredibly stupid), so all they can hope to return is a rental price.

 

[mriswith]

That's hilarious. A guy that has hit 30 goals once and having a lightning in a bottle season is now valued as a 50 goal scorer.

In fairness to Horvat, he's had complete garbage for wingers his entire career up until very recently. No other centre as talented as him has had to drag anywhere near the trash around the ice that he has for as long as he's had too, a collection of players like Eriksson, Roussel, Virtanen, Leipsic, etc. Until last year Pearson was the best winger he'd ever had by far.

He's obviously not going to be a 50 goal scorer, but his increase in scoring starting last year coincides with the first time he has had actual wingers on his line.

He also has elevated his game in the playoffs his entire career going back to junior. It's a shame that Benning wasted his entire career in Vancouver and we didn't get to see more of playoff Bo.

 

[Diogenes92]

By one goal. He's also only reached 60 points in a season once. A single hot start does not make a guy worth this kind of package.

Intangibles.

But in all seriousness. Face-off phenom. Just as good at Kadri at playing bumper on the PP. Wicked shot and a good motor. Plays big in big games (when he's had the opportunity).

He has a ton of value at 50% retention.

 

[Three On Zero]

If horvat got that return… I would personally drive him to Colorado

Horvat is a solid 2C, he shouldn’t get over 7. He’s a poor man’s ROR and a rich man’s RNH

 

[wintersej]

Reports are that Allvin is not allowing Bo's agent to discuss extensions with other teams (incredibly stupid), so all they can hope to return is a rental price.

That just can’t be true can it? Jesus. Sorry.

 

[Peter Griffin]

That’s just can’t be true can it? Jesus. Sorry.

They probably still want to try some last ditch effort to sign him in February. They did the same thing with Miller. If they can't keep Horvat, they have no option but to take a step back and somewhat re-tool, which they loathe to do for some strange reason.

 

[604]

Trust us, we watch him every night - JT Miller is a legit star 1st line Hart candidate and there’s no reason to think this is an outlier year. He’s carried this team and you’d be lucky to trade a haul for him and sign him for the next 7-8 years.

- Canucks fans, circa February 2022

So Miller is on pace for 30G and 75PTS.

Is that somehow bad?

It's not his fault that the Canucks defense sucks and the team save% has dropped ~20 blips.

 

[StephenPeat]

Colorado pukes, breaks phone, and blocks caller on new phone.

Also pukes into their phone and mails the phone with puke in it to Vancouver Front Office.

 

[AvStock]

Also pukes into their phone and mails the phone with puke in it to Vancouver Front Office.

Nah, you took it too far

 

[BKarchitect]

So Miller is on pace for 30G and 75PTS.

Is that somehow bad?

It's not his fault that the Canucks defense sucks and the team save% has dropped ~20 blips.

It’s not bad. He’s a good player. So is Horvat. Horvat is also having a statistical outlier year just like JTM had last year. It’s not smart to trade for and then sign long-term a player off such an outlier of a season. It doesn’t degrade the level of season JTM had last year. It doesn’t demean Horvat’s current year. It’s just rather smart to say we aren’t going to pay market price for this one season in isolation for 7 or 8 years into the future. Because the likelihood of it being repeated is fairly negligible. The odds of Horvat continuing to shoot 22% are next to zero. He’s a good enough two-way player but he’s not Bergeron or ROR. He’s improved offensively to the point where he’s just a really, really good second line option but he’s not the kind of creative playmaking center that’s lift his wingers into a new catagory and carry his team.

He’s a great, great second line center option or even 1A/B in a team without a true star center but he’s not a guy anybody should want to pay long-term based on this season. Hell, Canucks fans don’t want to pay him $9 million when EP is quite obviously the goal point of the offense. Why would other teams be lining up to do just that and pay the Canucks their most premium assets?

He should and will get a premium rental price. It won’t be anything beyond that. He’s an UFA and he’s going to get lots and lots of long-term money and that absolutely plays into the equation. Some of these packages that Canucks fans are dreaming of are just fanciful. This one actually isn’t that bad compared to these ideas that the Canucks are going to get Byram or Sanderson or the Columbus first rounder for him.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Dear god that's bad for Colorado. Horvat has become unreasonably overrated.

 

[Burke's Evil Spirit]

Reports are that Allvin is not allowing Bo's agent to discuss extensions with other teams (incredibly stupid), so all they can hope to return is a rental price.

Absolutely the right move. Why give Bo leverage?