GDT: Blues vs. Avs| 7pm BSMW|Barely More Than Half-Assed|

[Stealth JD]

I'd say we have a few more years at least! We earned it! Let us bask!

Man, I don't know how many letdowns like this I can take. I wanna bash the team, but they have actually played the Avs pretty tight lately and could have at least sent this game to OT if either Walman or Faulk hadn't coughed up the puck in their own zone. That Walman giveaway was an absolute backbreaker.

I agree with Dizee, it's kind of weird when Bozak seems to be the offensive catalyst right now but here we are. Tarasenko is basically playing like a 4th liner right now, which pains me because he's been my favorite player since entering the league and Parayko certainly isn't his usual dominant self. It's tough to win when 2 of your most important players are playing well below their best. Kind of crazy that we're still in the playoff hunt with as much as we've lost lately.

PS Novacain....one thing the Blues are better than Colorado at: not getting covid.

Sanford, not Walman.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

I mean, he did it for Jax.

I honestly had to go look to find that. Well, I stand corrected.

Then to your question: does he do it for Backes? I'll say it's 60/40, and it's more dependent on what Backes wants.

 

[TheDizee]

cant make stupid mistakes vs good clubs and expect to win when your top players are struggling.

sanford's turnover was a really stupid play that dampened a really good period. they looked engaged.

 

[TheDizee]

BenFred: As the Blues' blame game begins, lay off Berube

 

[Reality Czech]

Sanford, not Walman.

Thanks, you are right. I watched the game on NHL.tv first thing this morning, so I guess I guess wasn't fully awake yet. Both players were right there, but it was clearly Sanford who gently placed the puck in the Avs player's hand enabling them to score their first goal. Brutal turnover. I have defended Sanford at times, but there's no defending that. Sorry Jake, didn't mean to falsely accuse you!

 

[Brian39]

My hope is that we get back to an 82-game normal season with fans in 2021-2022. This team was just fine about 13 months ago...then COVID hit and the team has been a mess...

I'm going to preface my comment by saying that I believe that the roster is better than what we have seen this season. Assuming no changes, I would expect us to play better in a "normal" 82 game season than what we have seen in the COVID bubble and shortened season.

With that said, I'm not comfortable saying that this team is the team that was chugging along before COVID.

Scandella was technically part of that group and we looked great as a team in the 11 games we played with him before the COVID stoppage. But that is a pretty small sample size and we had J-Bo in that role for 80% of the season. Going 9-2 after that with Scandella doesn't convince me that Scandella for J-Bo was an even one for one swap.

Petro led skaters in ice time at 24:11 a night, was 5th on the team in points with 52 and wore the C. He finished 4th in Norris voting and there just isn't a rational argument that he wasn't one of the 3 most important skaters on the team. He was without question a top 10 NHL D man and removing that from your team drastically alters the makeup of your team.

Steen wasn't remotely worth the cap hit at the end, but he was an exceptionally good 4th liner. Berube leaned heavily on the 4th line and it hasn't looked nearly as good without Steen.

Allen was a damn good backup. I thought we leaned too heavily on Binner last year at a 70% start rate, but replacing Allen with Husso is causing that number to go up. He's at 73% right now and he has a relief appearance this year (which we never had to do last year). The team GSAA has swung 19 goals the wrong direction going from Allen to Husso.

That is a number of tangible on-ice losses for a team that was constructed from the blueline out. It is also 4 veterans exiting the room. The first 3 players that touched the Cup are on that list. The 4th (Thorburn) was purely a locker room presence but was obviously important to the team culture since the entire leadership group wanted him to hoist it early. We don't know locker room dynamics and it is impossible for us to quantify how a leadership role translates to wins. But even without knowing how that group led, it is undeniable that the current leadership group is significantly different than the one we had 14 months ago.

Again, I think that this team is better than the results we have seen for the last 12 months. But it is a different team than the pre-COVID roster. And the current roster is not built to win in the system that the pre-COVID roster excelled at.

 

[Brian39]

Neither of us know whether he is in charge of PP personnel and/or whether he is in charge of which unit goes out in-game. Some PP coaches simply build and run the system while the head coach retains decision-making on personnel because they want to reward guys who buy in by feeding them PP time. Some head coaches delegate all PP decision-making to the PP guy, including personnel decisions and in-game usage. We don't know who is controlling what aspects of the PP.

My issue is the personnel and not the structure. My other issue is not rewarding the 2nd unit by sending them out first while they are humming and the 1st unit is completely useless.

 

[Stealth JD]

cant make stupid mistakes vs good clubs and expect to win when your top players are struggling.

sanford's turnover was a really stupid play that dampened a really good period. they looked engaged.

Yep. They're not hopeless, just highly unlikely to advance beyond 5-games of an opening playoff round based on the body evidence they've presented. They routinely make more unforced errors, take stupid penalties and make bad reads at such a volume that they simply can't outscore their mistakes. The offense which should be the team strength is sputtering, and the defense and goaltending are simply too leaky. And night in, night out it's an assortment of the same general problems: The offense stalls, the penalty-kill cracks, the power-play kills momentum, they make lazy, bone-headed passes, the goalie gives up a back-breaker, etc.

They may be able to clean up one or two of those areas, but to think that they'll fix enough of them to the extent that they'll be able to consistently capitalize on the opponents mistakes more frequently than they can capitalize on yours; well, let's just say there's very little reason beyond blind faith and sheer hope to believe it will happen against the league's best team when the games start to matter. The Avs aren't some unstoppable juggernaut; and they Blues have proven that when on their game they can compete with and even beat the Avalanche. But they haven't come close to proving that they can play clean, focused, poised, mistake-(enough)-free hockey consistently enough to win 4-games out of 7, against anyone...let alone the best of the best.

 

[Brian39]

BenFred: As the Blues' blame game begins, lay off Berube

"Berube must have forgotten to have the guys practice power plays this month. Two times they got one in the third. And got nothing out of either."

Yes, that top PP unit that keeps being leaned on despite a 7 game scoring drought. Meanwhile, the 2nd unit has 5 PP goals in the last 4 games and barely saw the ice in those game-defining PP chances. The 2nd unit never got on the ice in the game's most important PP. Too bad the coaching staff has no control over who play PP minutes.

"At what point is it on the players? You remember them. They’re the ones out there on the ice."

And why are some of these guys on the ice? Excluding ROR, the top players have been awful the last 4 games and yet they keep being thrown out there. Perron, Schenn and Tarasenko have combined for 0 goals in the last 4 games and are a combined -3 in that stretch. All 3 looked absolutely brutal last night and they were 2nd, 3rd and 4th in ice time among our forwards.

Schwartz and Hoffman have 6 goals in that stretch, are 2 of only 6 guys who aren't minus in that stretch and were 5th and 8th in ice time last night.

Last night the coaching staff kept using a hammer to try and drive a screw and this article is asking, "at what point do we have to acknowledge that it's kind of a shitty hammer?" I have zero problem relying on Schenn/Perron in the first 40 minutes, but when you are down a goal (and then 2) in the 3rd you have to play the guys who have a chance of scoring a goal.

There is plenty of blame to go around. I'm certainly not saying to fire Berube. But sarcastically acting like he is doing everything he can and doing nothing wrong is asinine.

 

[Reality Czech]

I'm going to preface my comment by saying that I believe that the roster is better than what we have seen this season. Assuming no changes, I would expect us to play better in a "normal" 82 game season than what we have seen in the COVID bubble and shortened season.

With that said, I'm not comfortable saying that this team is the team that was chugging along before COVID.

Scandella was technically part of that group and we looked great as a team in the 11 games we played with him before the COVID stoppage. But that is a pretty small sample size and we had J-Bo in that role for 80% of the season. Going 9-2 after that with Scandella doesn't convince me that Scandella for J-Bo was an even one for one swap.

Petro led skaters in ice time at 24:11 a night, was 5th on the team in points with 52 and wore the C. He finished 4th in Norris voting and there just isn't a rational argument that he wasn't one of the 3 most important skaters on the team. He was without question a top 10 NHL D man and removing that from your team drastically alters the makeup of your team.

Steen wasn't remotely worth the cap hit at the end, but he was an exceptionally good 4th liner. Berube leaned heavily on the 4th line and it hasn't looked nearly as good without Steen.

Allen was a damn good backup. I thought we leaned too heavily on Binner last year at a 70% start rate, but replacing Allen with Husso is causing that number to go up. He's at 73% right now and he has a relief appearance this year (which we never had to do last year). The team GSAA has swung 19 goals the wrong direction going from Allen to Husso.

That is a number of tangible on-ice losses for a team that was constructed from the blueline out. It is also 4 veterans exiting the room. The first 3 players that touched the Cup are on that list. The 4th (Thorburn) was purely a locker room presence but was obviously important to the team culture since the entire leadership group wanted him to hoist it early. We don't know locker room dynamics and it is impossible for us to quantify how a leadership role translates to wins. But even without knowing how that group led, it is undeniable that the current leadership group is significantly different than the one we had 14 months ago.

Again, I think that this team is better than the results we have seen for the last 12 months. But it is a different team than the pre-COVID roster. And the current roster is not built to win in the system that the pre-COVID roster excelled at.

All great points in this post and your most recent ones. Sums it up pretty nicely. Berube has earned some slack, but you are absolutely right that he is not blameless. Completely agree with the comments about the power play. Whatever the reason the top guys aren't getting it done, there is no reason to keep relying on them so much. If guys like Dunn and Bozak are generating more scoring chances then they should be getting more PP time than guys who are ice cold. Not sure how much coaching comes into it, but we've seen at times the Blues defer to each other too much and try to set up the perfect play. It looks great when it works like on the first Schwartz goal, but sometimes less is more. We were doing great when Hoffman was just teeing up shot after shot from the side boards. Works for Ovechkin, worked for Hull. Perron used to be the master at that but he hasn't been ripping it as much lately for some reason. A deflection or bank shot off a leg count just as much as a highlight reel goal.

Regarding Steen, everything I've heard suggests he was the ultimate team player and a great example for everyone else on the team. Even when his scoring fell off, he was one of our best defensive forwards and was on the ice late in every close game. I think his presence is sorely missed. Ditto for Bouwmeester. He was a quiet guy who commanded attention when he did speak up and was the ultimate pro in terms of how he approached his game. Pretty sure no one worked harder at fitness and conditioning than J-Bo did.

The Blues gambled on Husso this year and it isn't looking great right now. I can see why they did, as they likely would have lost Husso on waivers and didn't plan on extending Allen. I don't think having Allen on the team would have made the team somehow play better, but the one big difference is that Allen is fully capable of being the starter for longer periods of time if the #1 is injured or on a cold streak. But if they were planning on Binnington being THE guy, I can see why they would roll the dice with Husso. We'll need Binnington to be better as every good team needs their goalie to steal games from time to time and that hasn't happened much this year. Will Binner get a shutout before the season is over?

I don't blame the Blues for losing to the Avs, who just might be the best team in the NHL. However, they do deserve blame if we aren't seeing their best effort night in and night out and it's clear that's not the case right now. And that falls on the players and the coaching staff. I agree that the team should be much better than we've seen and there's no excuse for finishing 5th in this division with this roster.

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

Neither of us know whether he is in charge of PP personnel and/or whether he is in charge of which unit goes out in-game. Some PP coaches simply build and run the system while the head coach retains decision-making on personnel because they want to reward guys who buy in by feeding them PP time. Some head coaches delegate all PP decision-making to the PP guy, including personnel decisions and in-game usage. We don't know who is controlling what aspects of the PP.

My issue is the personnel and not the structure. My other issue is not rewarding the 2nd unit by sending them out first while they are humming and the 1st unit is completely useless.

It just looks like 4 guys running something, plus Tarasenko doing something else. It pains me to say it, but I think the Blues would look a lot better in both possession and in 1st PP unit. Will he play his way out of this? I doubt he does in time for it to matter this season. And if his shot isn’t the weapon it used to be, or something like it, he starts to look like a guy you don’t need on your team.

 

[Brian39]

We were doing great when Hoffman was just teeing up shot after shot from the side boards. Works for Ovechkin, worked for Hull. Perron used to be the master at that but he hasn't been ripping it as much lately for some reason. A deflection or bank shot off a leg count just as much as a highlight reel goal.

Teams started cheating over towards him to take away that one-timer. It is working because we don't have many effective plays from the right side. That play works for Ovi because the Oshie/Backstrom/Kuzy trio down low and on the right side has a number of weapons. When teams cheat to Ovi, Carlson pulls a defender left and gets the puck to that trio on the right side to run a quick bumper play and take advantage of a 3 on 2 grouping. If the PK doesn't pull left to watch Carlson, he carries the puck straight into the slot and generates his own chance or makes a pass when the PK collapses to him. It all works because there are set weapons on each side of the ice. Teams scramble to cover those plays, which opens up lanes and a space for Ovi to rip a one-timer from Carlson or Backstrom.

The right side of our top PP unit is a black hole right now. PK units are able to cover most the chances from there while cheating towards defending the Perron 1 timer. The 2nd unit is having success because Hoffman is a great one timer option on the right side and Bozak/Schwartz are creating dangerous chances from the left side. Dunn has been doing a great job recognizing the holes and getting the puck to the correct side.

 

[Brian39]

It just looks like 4 guys running something, plus Tarasenko doing something else. It pains me to say it, but I think the Blues would look a lot better in both possession and in 1st PP unit. Will he play his way out of this? I doubt he does in time for it to matter this season. And if his shot isn’t the weapon it used to be, or something like it, he starts to look like a guy you don’t need on your team.

I doubt that Tarasenko can play his way out of it this season (which frankly doesn't surprise me). I feel much more optimistic that he will put it all together at some point next season.

But none of that should matter right now. Hoffman has been as good a PP player as Tarasenko for their entire careers. Hoffman has 6 more PP goals and 10 more PP points than Tarasenko since the 2012 lockout (and they are separated by 5 games played). In terms of the PP, we already have the tool that we are hoping Tarasenko can get himself back to. The absolute-best-case scenario for Tarasenko is that at some point he can bring what Hoffman is capable of bringing right now.

This is like watching the Family Guy boat vs a mystery box bit.

"Peter, use the top 20 NHL PP goal scorer."

"But if we let Tarasenko try and shake off the rust on our top PP unit, he could be anything. Even a top 30 NHL PP goal scorer!"

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

I doubt that Tarasenko can play his way out of it this season (which frankly doesn't surprise me). I feel much more optimistic that he will put it all together at some point next season.

But none of that should matter right now. Hoffman has been as good a PP player as Tarasenko for their entire careers. Hoffman has 6 more PP goals and 10 more PP points than Tarasenko since the 2012 lockout (and they are separated by 5 games played). In terms of the PP, we already have the tool that we are hoping Tarasenko can get himself back to. The absolute-best-case scenario for Tarasenko is that at some point he can bring what Hoffman is capable of bringing right now.

This is like watching the Family Guy boat vs a mystery box bit.

"Peter, use the top 20 NHL PP goal scorer."

"But if we let Tarasenko try and shake off the rust on our top PP unit, he could be anything. Even a top 30 NHL PP goal scorer!"

Tarasenko is doing it in practice?

 

[DeuceNine]

It could be Berube was a great coach with a much different team, but not this one. That's possible.

 

[MissouriMook]

It could be Berube was a great coach with a much different team, but not this one. That's possible.

With the way the roster is trending from bigger and more physical to smaller and faster, maybe it's time to move on from a coach like Berube and bring in a guy like Gerard Gallant. Even Berube himself has admitted that he is essentially not reaching this group anymore. I feel like the up-tempo style Gallant installed in Vegas in their first couple of years fits our roster better than the 5-man unit approach that Berube is trying to make work anyway.

 

[BlueDream]

With the way the roster is trending from bigger and more physical to smaller and faster, maybe it's time to move on from a coach like Berube and bring in a guy like Gerard Gallant. Even Berube himself has admitted that he is essentially not reaching this group anymore. I feel like the up-tempo style Gallant installed in Vegas in their first couple of years fits our roster better than the 5-man unit approach that Berube is trying to make work anyway.

Too early for that. Moving on from a Cup winning coach not even 2 years later is a humongous risk that could severely backfire and cost Armstrong his job.

 

[Xerloris]

Thanks, you are right. I watched the game on NHL.tv first thing this morning, so I guess I guess wasn't fully awake yet. Both players were right there, but it was clearly Sanford who gently placed the puck in the Avs player's hand enabling them to score their first goal. Brutal turnover. I have defended Sanford at times, but there's no defending that. Sorry Jake, didn't mean to falsely accuse you!

Yes, join me in the hatred of Sanford.

I'm going to preface my comment by saying that I believe that the roster is better than what we have seen this season. Assuming no changes, I would expect us to play better in a "normal" 82 game season than what we have seen in the COVID bubble and shortened season.

With that said, I'm not comfortable saying that this team is the team that was chugging along before COVID.

Scandella was technically part of that group and we looked great as a team in the 11 games we played with him before the COVID stoppage. But that is a pretty small sample size and we had J-Bo in that role for 80% of the season. Going 9-2 after that with Scandella doesn't convince me that Scandella for J-Bo was an even one for one swap.

Petro led skaters in ice time at 24:11 a night, was 5th on the team in points with 52 and wore the C. He finished 4th in Norris voting and there just isn't a rational argument that he wasn't one of the 3 most important skaters on the team. He was without question a top 10 NHL D man and removing that from your team drastically alters the makeup of your team.

Steen wasn't remotely worth the cap hit at the end, but he was an exceptionally good 4th liner. Berube leaned heavily on the 4th line and it hasn't looked nearly as good without Steen.

Allen was a damn good backup. I thought we leaned too heavily on Binner last year at a 70% start rate, but replacing Allen with Husso is causing that number to go up. He's at 73% right now and he has a relief appearance this year (which we never had to do last year). The team GSAA has swung 19 goals the wrong direction going from Allen to Husso.

That is a number of tangible on-ice losses for a team that was constructed from the blueline out. It is also 4 veterans exiting the room. The first 3 players that touched the Cup are on that list. The 4th (Thorburn) was purely a locker room presence but was obviously important to the team culture since the entire leadership group wanted him to hoist it early. We don't know locker room dynamics and it is impossible for us to quantify how a leadership role translates to wins. But even without knowing how that group led, it is undeniable that the current leadership group is significantly different than the one we had 14 months ago.

Again, I think that this team is better than the results we have seen for the last 12 months. But it is a different team than the pre-COVID roster. And the current roster is not built to win in the system that the pre-COVID roster excelled at.

This team performed poorly in Pietrangelo's 1st year as captain after losing much less than what we've lost this year. We performed even worse the 1st part of his 2nd year as captain. I see no reason that with the talent this team has they can't pull their head out of their ass and turn it around. I'm not sure if it can be done this season but next season for sure. If this trend continues next season I would be much more open to getting rid of some people.

Teams started cheating over towards him to take away that one-timer. It is working because we don't have many effective plays from the right side. That play works for Ovi because the Oshie/Backstrom/Kuzy trio down low and on the right side has a number of weapons. When teams cheat to Ovi, Carlson pulls a defender left and gets the puck to that trio on the right side to run a quick bumper play and take advantage of a 3 on 2 grouping. If the PK doesn't pull left to watch Carlson, he carries the puck straight into the slot and generates his own chance or makes a pass when the PK collapses to him. It all works because there are set weapons on each side of the ice. Teams scramble to cover those plays, which opens up lanes and a space for Ovi to rip a one-timer from Carlson or Backstrom.

The right side of our top PP unit is a black hole right now. PK units are able to cover most the chances from there while cheating towards defending the Perron 1 timer. The 2nd unit is having success because Hoffman is a great one timer option on the right side and Bozak/Schwartz are creating dangerous chances from the left side. Dunn has been doing a great job recognizing the holes and getting the puck to the correct side.

Why not Hoffman and Perron on the PP together so the OK can't cheat to one side? makes sense to me.

 

[EastonBlues22]

Too early for that. Moving on from a Cup winning coach not even 2 years later is a humongous risk that could severely backfire and cost Armstrong his job.

I don't think Armstrong is too concerned about things like that. After all, he willingly moved on from Pietrangelo (the captain of said team and almost certainly one of its best two players)...a massive roster change which was also a pretty big risk from a competitive/PR standpoint. He could have handed Pietrangelo the contract he wanted as nothing was stopping him from doing so, but (for better or worse) he stuck to his principles and took the tougher road.

Say what you want about Armstrong, but he's not afraid to make a tough call if he thinks it's the right thing to do.

 

[Oberyn]

Pietrangelo is sorely missed but it just hit me how much we miss Bouwmeester as well. Long gone are those days...

 

[WeWentBlues]

The empty net goal was the epitome of Schenn's game right now in the offensive zone. Makes a no look pass to no one through the goal crease. Puck is in the back of our net a few moments later. That's a low hockey IQ play there. He's been killing so many plays lately.

 

[BlueDream]

I don't think Armstrong is too concerned about things like that. After all, he willingly moved on from Pietrangelo (the captain of said team and almost certainly one of its best two players)...a massive roster change which was also a pretty big risk from a competitive/PR standpoint. He could have handed Pietrangelo the contract he wanted as nothing was stopping him from doing so, but (for better or worse) he stuck to his principles and took the tougher road.

Say what you want about Armstrong, but he's not afraid to make a tough call if he thinks it's the right thing to do.

Ok that’s fair but he’s never pulled the trigger on a coach like that before. Yeo missed the playoffs and they still brought him back.

I’m really trying to see what good firing Berube would do. Because if it backfires then the organization is even more f***ed. It’s simply not worth the risk at this point in time when there’s no clear option to replace him that’s better.

 

[MissouriMook]

The empty net goal was the epitome of Schenn's game right now in the offensive zone. Makes a no look pass to no one through the goal crease. Puck is in the back of our net a few moments later. That's a low hockey IQ play there. He's been killing so many plays lately.

Until proven otherwise, I will continue to insist that his game is far better suited to playing on the wing than at center.