Blues Trade Proposals Part 4

[PocketNines]

Reading a recent Weiss to Chicago thread a Wings fan chimed in that Jurco + 2d was the general consensus of the fan base they'd be willing to give up. Chicago offers were of a similar nature. 2d/3d plus non top-shelf prospect or non-core player.

 

[PerryTurnbullfan]

Reading a recent Weiss to Chicago thread a Wings fan chimed in that Jurco + 2d was the general consensus of the fan base they'd be willing to give up. Chicago offers were of a similar nature. 2d/3d plus non top-shelf prospect or non-core player.

I saw that. I'm also surprised they didn't want Toews for him...ha ha.

I guess to set the record straight. I don't hate Perron. I like him. You have to give something to get something. Moving someone doesn't mean you dislike them. You look at the other teams needs and try to be realistic in value. We need some strength up the middle. My thoughts were to shore it up in one move....though as most trades on all threads are...very unrealistic.

 

[Alklha]

The reason Perron keeps coming up in trade proposals is simply because he is viewed as the most "moveable" player with the highest trade value. Guys like Backes, Oshie, Pietrangelo, Berglund and Shattenkirk might have more value, but are seen as much more integral to this team. I don't think the frustrations people have with Perron during games is particularly the reason his name appears in proposals so often.

It is always tough to try and predict the return of a deadline rental, but considering that Gaustad fetched a first round pick last season, I think Florida wants at least that or a high end prospect. I'd be surprised to see them take a late second and a middling prospect.

 

[Thallis]

The reason Perron keeps coming up in trade proposals is simply because he is viewed as the most "moveable" player with the highest trade value. Guys like Backes, Oshie, Pietrangelo, Berglund and Shattenkirk might have more value, but are seen as much more integral to this team. I don't think the frustrations people have with Perron during games is particularly the reason his name appears in proposals so often.

It is always tough to try and predict the return of a deadline rental, but considering that Gaustad fetched a first round pick last season, I think Florida wants at least that or a high end prospect. I'd be surprised to see them take a late second and a middling prospect.

I think it's a little bit of both. I'd be lying if I didn't say that I'm not a huge fan of Perron and would trade him first out of the "kids." I also think it makes sense to, as his value nothing to sneeze at and I feel he could get us a single big or a few solid players when packaged. I'd totally do a Perron, Rattie, 1st for Wiess, Kulikov, and 2nd. Fills both of our needs with solid players while only losing one roster player.

As far as what they're looking for, you have to take in draft class into consideration, as this year's crop has always looked considerably stronger than last year's. I'd suspect the value of a first this year is definitely higher this year.

 

[Hooliganx3]

I think it's a little bit of both. I'd be lying if I didn't say that I'm not a huge fan of Perron and would trade him first out of the "kids." I also think it makes sense to, as his value nothing to sneeze at and I feel he could get us a single big or a few solid players when packaged. I'd totally do a Perron, Rattie, 1st for Wiess, Kulikov, and 2nd. Fills both of our needs with solid players while only losing one roster player.

As far as what they're looking for, you have to take in draft class into consideration, as this year's crop has always looked considerably stronger than last year's. I'd suspect the value of a first this year is definitely higher this year.

I've actually read that the first 10-15 picks are high quality but after that it drops to an average to below average draft. Seems like that happens every year though.

 

[PocketNines]

There are always outlier deals that look terrible. Gaustad for a first was always a hideous move for Nashville. Hideous outlier deals are what sellers WISH would set the market but instead it's more a cautionary tale.

Now, Weiss is better than Gaustad. Both rentals, it's possible Florida sets its sight on a first and holds to that. They might get it.

I do think a late first this year is like the 2011 draft where from 20-50 it's pretty flat. That was the Rattie (32) Jaskin (41) Edmundson (46) draft. You can get real talent late in the first this year and certainly the first half of the 2d (which is why we're rooting against Ottawa).

I think Florida would be stupid to trade Kulikov. But if they're gonna be stupid, hope they're stupid with us.

 

[illninofan*]

Even though he scored tonight, I'd still be open to trading Perron.

Reason being you'd have plenty of people to step in on the wing, like Backes or Steen (both of whom, I think would be way more effective on the wing). I don't dislike him, in fact I think he's one of the best players on the team, but we have bigger needs, and we'd be scary with a true #1 and #3 center.

I'm fine with Cole's play alongside Petro and I think Russell can bounce back. If we shore up the front, it should take pressure off of our defense, allowing these two to play better.

 

[rumrokh]

I heard that Armstrong was at the Winnipeg-Philly game today. It might have just been a convenient game to take in en route to scouting something more likely, but it's something to consider.

I think Philly is a no-go. They've turned it around lately and, while they have the center depth that the Blues covet, they need puck-moving D, which is something the Blues cannot spare. A deal might be possible there, but it seems a lot less likely than one with the Jets.

Players the Blues are probably looking at on the Jets: Hainsey, Little, and Burmistrov. The Jets have also been heavily rumored to be in on the O'Rielly circus. The Avalanche need puck moving D, but they were also rumored to be asking for a package of a higher pick and a young forward.

So...

The Blues deal:
2013 1st rounder
A significant prospect
Russell
D'Agostini

-for-

Hainsey
Burmistrov
2013 pick (3rd rounder, possibly Chicago's 2nd rounder)

Then Winnipeg deals the Blues' first rounder and a young guy (Postma, Klingberg, Sheifele, whatever - anybody but Trouba, probably) for O'Reilly and promptly sign him - possibly for less than he's demanding elsewhere because he'll immediately step in as their #1 center.

I honestly don't see this as the Blues unloading trash. A first and a significant prospect is the core of the deal. The Blues want to stock up on 2nds and 3rds in a deep draft, so if I'm the Blues, I want to weasel that returning pick into a 2nd rounder. If I'm Winnipeg, I want Jaskin or Binnington and I want to talk that 2nd rounder down to a 3rd rounder. I think they'd honestly want D'Agostini. They need right wingers and they need depth. I have to believe Hainsey would waive his NTC. They're willing to move Burmistrov in order to get O'Reilly without giving up their own first rounder and get higher quality return on Hainsey. The Blues can put Burmistrov in as their 3rd line center, move Steen back to wing, and Burmistrov and Tarasenko could work well together when Tarasenko is healthy.

Jets seriously improve their scoring lines and get a solid return on Hainsey, the Blues get better, and the Avalanche get well-paid for O'Reilly. The reason the Blues don't make the deal for O'Reilly straight up is that his contract demands are too rich for them and they want a defenseman, too.

 

[illninofan*]

I like that scenario for many reasons (Steen moves back to wing being the most important one), but is Hainsey really that good as the partner for Pietrangelo? I know he's a big body, though.

Burmistrov is intruging and is a good move for many reasons as well (namely those having to do with Frank).

We still don't get a true #1 center, but we're a lot more dangerous with Steen at wing and a big body on LD. Not sure if Hainsey is that much of a step up from what we currently have though.

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[rumrokh]

I like that scenario for many reasons (Steen moves back to wing being the most important one), but is Hainsey really that good as the partner for Pietrangelo? I know he's a big body, though.

Burmistrov is intruging and is a good move for many reasons as well (namely those having to do with Frank).

We still don't get a true #1 center, but we're a lot more dangerous with Steen at wing and a big body on LD. Not sure if Hainsey is that much of a step up from what we currently have though.

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

Hainsey helps them now. If he fits well and re-signs with them, that's good, but he's an immediate upgrade and that's the purpose of the deal. Not the ideal long-term, top-pairing guy, but that guy isn't available. Of the upgrade defensemen the Blues could probably get in a trade right now, you have Hainsey, Smid, Streit, and Sekera. Guys like Ehrhoff, Pitkanen, or one of the Rangers' top 4 are almost certainly unavailable, especially for a return the Blues could pay: basically wingers, picks, and prospects. Other than Bouwmeester, nobody else is going to make a big move.

None of Florida, Washington, or the Islanders are going to deal one of their young defensemen. Basically every other team either matches up horribly in a trade with the Blues or they're simply not selling because they're in a playoff race.

And it's not a case of trading for any old available player, it's about upgrading the Russell/Redden revolving door.

 

[BlueDream]

Well apparently that is the 2nd Jets game in a row that Armstrong has attended so the two teams have gotta at least be talking.

I like that proposed deal. Burmistrov and Hainsey could be good here.

 

[rumrokh]

Well apparently that is the 2nd Jets game in a row that Armstrong has attended so the two teams have gotta at least be talking.

I like that proposed deal. Burmistrov and Hainsey could be good here.

It's certainly a bit of a fantasy in that it involves a third party. Winnipeg could, in theory, just deal Burmistrov and a 2nd rounder or something like that for O'Reilly and then trade Hainsey separately if they want. I think everybody comes out better in the deal I proposed, but that doesn't make it more realistic. The Blues might very well be more interested in Little, which could change things because he's up for a decent contract.

Winnipeg definitely needs wingers (and future talent), though, and I could see them having interest in any of D'Agostini, Perron, Steen, Stewart, and Schwartz. It's all a matter of how much Armstrong wants to shake things up, how much he's concerned about the RFA situation they're staring down, and what Winnipeg actually wants.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Burmistrov is on pace for over 200 hits, with no major outlier in any game, so he could be a great fit for the 3rd line center role. Maybe he could spark his offense with Tarasenko or any of the other wingers here.

I think we are looking at the center situation too hard, and Steen has been better than a lot of you are making it seem to be. We are probably looking at Hainsey and just Hainsey.

 

[PocketNines]

Hainsey is a cheaper (prorated 3M), less talented Bouwmeester and is a rental. If we're looking for someone with grit who's solid and consistent in his own end, then Hainsey would be a hideous choice. If we want a soft defender who can play lots of minutes and move the puck, Hainsey's definitely a better choice than Bouwmeester. I suppose you could trade Russell for him. Jets get a player who's RFA and cheaper and a puck mover. They don't lose on grit as Hainsey is like Russell. Blues get someone who can handle more minutes who Jets don't intend to re-sign. I wouldn't give more than Russell.

 

[PocketNines]

I know someone will not read correctly so to be clear, I said Hainsey is "a better choice than Bouwmeester" for the contract conditions alone, which actually amount to a huge difference. They'd have to move Russell or Redden or else carry eight defensemen, which they wouldn't do. Trading Cole for Hainsey would be idiotic. Jets would have zero interest in Redden (you don't sell a rental for an older, worse rental), so it'd have to be Russell if they're going for Hainsey.

 

[rumrokh]

Hainsey is a cheaper (prorated 3M), less talented Bouwmeester and is a rental. If we're looking for someone with grit who's solid and consistent in his own end, then Hainsey would be a hideous choice. If we want a soft defender who can play lots of minutes and move the puck, Hainsey's definitely a better choice than Bouwmeester. I suppose you could trade Russell for him. Jets get a player who's RFA and cheaper and a puck mover. They don't lose on grit as Hainsey is like Russell. Blues get someone who can handle more minutes who Jets don't intend to re-sign. I wouldn't give more than Russell.

All told, I think Smid is a better choice because he's very dependable defensively, but if he's not available or the price is too high, the Blues are going to improve in whatever way they can. This particular one only occurred to me because options are really limited right now and Armstrong was scouting the Jets (apparently).

I don't think Armstrong or Hitch are going to give up their ideal puckmover-on-every-pairing scenario; so, even though neither Bouwmeester, nor Hainsey excite me, nearly anybody is better than Russell at this point. Dude was damn serviceable last year, but he has been a wreck this year and teams are targeting him.

Even though Hainsey doesn't hit, he blocks a zillion shots and can move the puck. I would give up more than Russell, but nothing of great value for him alone.

 

[PocketNines]

I'd be shocked if Edmonton didn't re-sign Smid though. We talked about Smid in the last thread (the lone UFA d-man that jumps out) and the way Edmonton looks on D they cannot let Smid go.

Do agree that the market is uncertain but the ideal guys are likely unavailable so someone like Hainsey is a fallback. If I were giving more than Russell it'd be Russell + 4th or worse pick, that kind of balance. Russell may have had a rough stretch but he has played very well under pressure conditions recently, is a cheap RFA and a puck mover. Hainsey is an inconsistent guy too. Jets would be able to hold onto Russell after the season and have more cap room.

 

[bleedblue1223]

How would you guys feel about moving Rattie or Jaskin in a deal for Burmistrov? If so, which one would you rather give up?

Personally, if Armstrong thinks Burmi is a good fit, and there is the potential that his production could increase by playing with Tarasenko, like Nikitin's did with Tyutin, I wouldn't be opposed to trading Rattie for him.

We have a lot of smallish forwards, and we have incredible depth on the right side. I'd say Oshie and Tarasenko are both top 6 forwards in the long-term for us, with Stewart being the wildcard.

 

[Falco Lombardi]

I would rather give up Rattie than Jaskin.

And yes I would move Rattie in a deal for Burmistrov.

 

[PerryTurnbullfan]

How would you guys feel about moving Rattie or Jaskin in a deal for Burmistrov? If so, which one would you rather give up?

Personally, if Armstrong thinks Burmi is a good fit, and there is the potential that his production could increase by playing with Tarasenko, like Nikitin's did with Tyutin, I wouldn't be opposed to trading Rattie for him.

We have a lot of smallish forwards, and we have incredible depth on the right side. I'd say Oshie and Tarasenko are both top 6 forwards in the long-term for us, with Stewart being the wildcard.

No way do I trade Jaskin, unless it is a blue chip center. He is going to fly up the prospect rankings. Rattie is smallish. I would be more apt to move him.

Would Mark Stuart be available from Winnipeg? He would add toughness for sure to our backline.

 

[PerryTurnbullfan]

How would you guys feel about moving Rattie or Jaskin in a deal for Burmistrov? If so, which one would you rather give up?

Personally, if Armstrong thinks Burmi is a good fit, and there is the potential that his production could increase by playing with Tarasenko, like Nikitin's did with Tyutin, I wouldn't be opposed to trading Rattie for him.

We have a lot of smallish forwards, and we have incredible depth on the right side. I'd say Oshie and Tarasenko are both top 6 forwards in the long-term for us, with Stewart being the wildcard.

Burmistrov will be expensive. Schwartz + will probably be a minimum asking price. He is a former 1st round pick with a better resume.

 

[bleedblue1223]

No way do I trade Jaskin, unless it is a blue chip center. He is going to fly up the prospect rankings. Rattie is smallish. I would be more apt to move him.

Would Mark Stuart be available from Winnipeg? He would add toughness for sure to our backline.

I don't think Stuart would be a good fit because he isn't good enough to play with Petro on the top pairing, and like Polak, he is probably best served with a puck-moving partner.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Burmistrov will be expensive. Schwartz + will probably be a minimum asking price. He is a former 1st round pick with a better resume.

I wouldn't say that. A Jet fan originally brought up going after Rattie for him.

The admitted homers think that he could become a 50-60 point center, so a realistic view is more around 40-50. He really hasn't gotten his NHL scoring going yet. With Scheifele coming up, I could see them moving Burmi.

 

[PerryTurnbullfan]

I wouldn't say that. A Jet fan originally brought up going after Rattie for him.

The admitted homers think that he could become a 50-60 point center, so a realistic view is more around 40-50. He really hasn't gotten his NHL scoring going yet. With Scheifele coming up, I could see them moving Burmi.

If you could get him that cheap, then you better do it. I don't see it.

 

[bleedblue1223]

If you could get him that cheap, then you better do it. I don't see it.

Ty Rattie, Joel Edmundson, & a salary dump in exchange for Burmistrov & a 2013 third.

That is what the Jet fan proposed. I wouldn't say cheap, but it isn't ridiculous either. I think a deal could be worked around this base.

If the Blues are as high on Edmundson as some of us are, then maybe we can take him out, and add a 1st and Hainsey.