Blues Trade Proposals 2023-2024

[bleedblue1223]

And even if we have a big target in mind, we don't need to buy anyone out to do that. We probably want to be somewhat mindful of possible extensions for Buchnevich, Neighbours, and Hofer starting in 25/26, but if we are planning on trading Buchnevich, then we really have nothing to worry about. We can acquire 2 sizable contracts this summer, or one really big deal and still have money left over. And as the Saad's, Hayes', Krug's, etc. age out, we'll have young prospects on cheap deals replacing them.

I think the difficult part is convincing free agents to come here, but we can absolutely throw some decent money on reasonable term at guys like Lindholm, Monahan, Skeji, Pesce, Duchene, Toffoli, Marchessault, Henrique, Teravainen, etc., and improve the defense and boost the secondary scoring. Part of the issue is every other team will have new cap space too.

The key to becoming a really good team is fixing the defense with younger pieces, that will be the challenge. Hopefully Lindstein and if we draft a dman 1st in this draft, they can exceed expectations and becoming NHL players quicker than average.

 

[TheOrganist]

Yes, we’re in the Paul Kariya summer of 2007 era. Hoping middling past their prime free agents sign for cheap. How exciting.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

So in other words, let's criticize Doug endlessly for his perceived mistakes while giving him no credit for his success? Got it. The Blues have the most wins in the West since he became GM so I'm gonna go out on a limb and say he knows what he's doing.

I can - and have, and will in the future - give Armstrong credit for the moves that brought in various players that helped us have whatever success over the years, including the 2018 offseason moves that brought in guys who ended up being core pieces of the 2019 Cup run.

It shocks me - and by that, I mean "doesn't surprise me at all, given the fawning I've seen over Doug Armstrong over the last 5+ years" - that 5 years later, there are still people who can't come within light years of admitting that Armstrong's plan going into the 2018-19 season ended up being a massively colossal failure, and the only reasons the Blues won the Cup were because
* Yeo got shit-canned on November 19 and replaced by Berube, and
* Binnington had to come from the minors - remember, he wasn't even the backup going in, Chad Johnson was that guy and after 2 games he imploded as spectacularly as Allen had down the stretch in 2018 - and was spectacular in net from the very start and backstopped the Blues to the Cup [which wasn't in any version of Armstrong's plan]

And neither one of those were anywhere in Armstrong's plans for the season as late as October 4, 2018 moments before the first puck dropped for Opening Night vs. Winnipeg.

No, we can't do that. It was all - every single moment of it - a grand display of Doug Armstrong's genius. The first 7 weeks of shitty play, the meandering next 6 weeks, finally having Binnington go in because Shakey Jake was busy sliding laterally all over the ice instead of staying in net and stopping puck, ... all of it was brilliant orchestrated by Armstrong. He knew way back before training camp broke that if he let those things happen, when they happened, the Blues were going to win the Cup and he just had to trust the plan.

And it would be really, really nice if even just once, some people said "yeah, that wasn't all Doug Armstrong, we got really, really, really, really f***ing lucky with some of that."

And it would be even better if the same people who looked at Berube just 4 months ago - the same Berube who coached the team to the Cup, the same Berube who had zero responsibility for the construction of subsequent rosters - and said IDGAF if he won a Cup, this team isn't performing, it's time for him to go. would notice what has happened with the rosters since the Cup and said "you know what, even considering we lost Bouwmeester to early retirement and all this other stuff, Doug Armstrong is the one guy responsible for constructing the current roster, and it's ... kind of shit, and missing the playoffs in back-to-back years isn't an accident and that's all his fault, and he deserves blame for that."

No, apparently he gets practically full deference for the Cup in 2019 with you know what, he built a winner, I trust him, we should keep him in charge, even if things get shitty he's earned the chance to make it better, he's done it before and he'll surely do it again.

 

[sfvega]

DA was masterful in 2019. The issue is a lot of the stuff he's done since then hasn't been great. We got some real anchor contracts here. I'm still happy we have him, but hard to discount the mess he's made chasing the ghost of our contending window. Our scouting is still good, which is why I want him to trade Buch ASAP and go into next year with cap flexibility instead of trying to save us with free agents again.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Yes, we’re in the Paul Kariya summer of 2007 era. Hoping middling past their prime free agents sign for cheap. How exciting.

Kariya was very good in his first 2 season until he got hurt. If we get a Kariya that does to Snuggerud or Kyrou or Bolduc as what Kariya did for Boyes, we have an amazing 2nd line to pair with Thomas.

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

I can - and have, and will in the future - give Armstrong credit for the moves that brought in various players that helped us have whatever success over the years, including the 2018 offseason moves that brought in guys who ended up being core pieces of the 2019 Cup run.

It shocks me - and by that, I mean "doesn't surprise me at all, given the fawning I've seen over Doug Armstrong over the last 5+ years" - that 5 years later, there are still people who can't come within light years of admitting that Armstrong's plan going into the 2018-19 season ended up being a massively colossal failure, and the only reasons the Blues won the Cup were because
* Yeo got shit-canned on November 19 and replaced by Berube, and
* Binnington had to come from the minors - remember, he wasn't even the backup going in, Chad Johnson was that guy and after 2 games he imploded as spectacularly as Allen had down the stretch in 2018 - and was spectacular in net from the very start and backstopped the Blues to the Cup [which wasn't in any version of Armstrong's plan]

And neither one of those were anywhere in Armstrong's plans for the season as late as October 4, 2018 moments before the first puck dropped for Opening Night vs. Winnipeg.

No, we can't do that. It was all - every single moment of it - a grand display of Doug Armstrong's genius. The first 7 weeks of shitty play, the meandering next 6 weeks, finally having Binnington go in because Shakey Jake was busy sliding laterally all over the ice instead of staying in net and stopping puck, ... all of it was brilliant orchestrated by Armstrong. He knew way back before training camp broke that if he let those things happen, when they happened, the Blues were going to win the Cup and he just had to trust the plan.

And it would be really, really nice if even just once, some people said "yeah, that wasn't all Doug Armstrong, we got really, really, really, really f***ing lucky with some of that."

And it would be even better if the same people who looked at Berube just 4 months ago - the same Berube who coached the team to the Cup, the same Berube who had zero responsibility for the construction of subsequent rosters - and said IDGAF if he won a Cup, this team isn't performing, it's time for him to go. would notice what has happened with the rosters since the Cup and said "you know what, even considering we lost Bouwmeester to early retirement and all this other stuff, Doug Armstrong is the one guy responsible for constructing the current roster, and it's ... kind of shit, and missing the playoffs in back-to-back years isn't an accident and that's all his fault, and he deserves blame for that."

No, apparently he gets practically full deference for the Cup in 2019 with you know what, he built a winner, I trust him, we should keep him in charge, even if things get shitty he's earned the chance to make it better, he's done it before and he'll surely do it again.

As Mike Tyson famously said, everyone has a plan until they get punched in the nose. Army masterfully pivoted off his plan and Berube and Binny, combined with the team we had in place, led us to a Cup. That was lucky, but it was also DA that had them in reserve. I get that he has made mistakes, including some big ones, but he still ranks among top tier of GMs. Would you rather have Dubas or Treliving or Conroy or Lou or ???

 

[Ted Hoffman]

As Mike Tyson famously said, everyone has a plan until they get punched in nose. Army masterfully pivoted off his plan and Berube and Binny, combined with the team we had in place, led us to a Cup. That was lucky, but it was also DA that had them in reserve. I get that he has made mistakes, including some big ones, but he still ranks among top tier of GMs. Would you rather have Dubas or Treliving or Conroy or Lou or ???

1. "Dubas or Treveling or Conroy or Lou or ???" assumes that either some other known choice is inferior so Armstrong must be acceptable, or because no other choice can be [has been] identified, Armstrong must therefore be acceptable. Either way, this is an error in logic.

2. Among other things: I want a GM who can
* Accurately look at his team's strengths and weaknesses and make moves accordingly
* Who can do that without handcuffing himself via NTCs and/or long contracts with huge cap hits
* Who doesn't ignore obvious flaws in the construction of the team and pretend everything is fine
* Who has a plan that can reasonably be judged to be one with a high probability of success of achieving whatever goal is in mind
* Whose plans are not based on "everything goes perfectly" optimism with little additional upside and lots of downside risk
* Who doesn't regularly throw the team under the bus for his failures and only admit he might be responsible on the [very] rare instances someone in the press calls him out

And, if it's not too much to ask, a GM who can do all of that and have success [which has long been defined as "winning a Cup" - though I'll settle for a lesser definition, provided it's stated] without having to rely on a ridiculous confluence of improbable events that happen to realize in the same season, in a very short period. I'm not even asking for that to be repeated to prove it's not a fluke, or for the guy to not constantly pretend he's the smartest person in the room when it's pretty clear at times he's far from it. I'm just asking for success to happen once with a plan that generally works with only minor tweaks, instead of a plan whose core tenants get gutted but the desired result occurs because of other highly improbable events.

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

1. "Dubas or Treveling or Conroy or Lou or ???" assumes that either some other known choice is inferior so Armstrong must be acceptable, or because no other choice can be [has been] identified, Armstrong must therefore be acceptable. Either way, this is an error in logic.

2. Among other things: I want a GM who can
* Accurately look at his team's strengths and weaknesses and make moves accordingly
* Who can do that without handcuffing himself via NTCs and/or long contracts with huge cap hits
* Who doesn't ignore obvious flaws in the construction of the team and pretend everything is fine
* Who has a plan that can reasonably be judged to be one with a high probability of success of achieving whatever goal is in mind
* Whose plans are not based on "everything goes perfectly" optimism with little additional upside and lots of downside risk
* Who doesn't regularly throw the team under the bus for his failures and only admit he might be responsible on the [very] rare instances someone in the press calls him out

And, if it's not too much to ask, a GM who can do all of that and have success [which has long been defined as "winning a Cup" - though I'll settle for a lesser definition, provided it's stated] without having to rely on a ridiculous confluence of improbable events that happen to realize in the same season, in a very short period. I'm not even asking for that to be repeated to prove it's not a fluke, or for the guy to not constantly pretend he's the smartest person in the room when it's pretty clear at times he's far from it. I'm just asking for success to happen once with a plan that generally works with only minor tweaks, instead of a plan whose core tenants get gutted but the desired result occurs because of other highly improbable events.

is mccrimmon a top gm? bc i don't think he thought adin hill would be the backbone of a Cup team, but he bailed vegas out. job of gm is to put team in position to compete for Cup. army did that, and not just in 2019. we were among top 5-10 teams for years because of moves he made. and when he saw that we were no longer able to compete, he sold off guys last tdl to restock cupboard. and he has been steadfast in wanting to build for that next window. but he doesn't want us to look like sharks or chicago, for a variety of good reasons, so we have shortsighted fans ripping him.

it's easy to say he screwed up x and y and z. he made mistakes. every gm does. but why do we have declining guys with ntc? bc that was price to pay to keep them during our window. happens to pretty much every top team as their guys get old. or are you just upset he misused actuarial in his press conference?

 

[bleedblue1223]

Has Armstrong made mistakes? Yes. Is he a perfect GM? No. Is he one of the top GMs in the league? Yes. Does accountability mean simply being fired? No.

I don't know exactly how long of a leash Army has, but it's quite a big longer than some here would like it to be. Even if next season goes poorly, I don't see his job being at risk. What does a succession plan to Army look like? Lets say we fire him and look external or even hire a former Blue, but someone that hasn't been deep in this Front Office. We are probably looking at somewhat of a significant shakeup to the hockey org as a whole. If the team on the ice wasn't performing, and we were making poor pro level moves, and we were drafting/developing poorly, then I'd say we are at the point for complete turnover, we aren't at that point yet. And if there is one thing this ownership group likes and values, it's stability, Army provides that.

When Army's time as GM comes to an end, it's either going to be something like Detroit and Holland, where none of these current drafts produce much and we are left a mediocre mess that can't even make the playoffs, or it will be like Poile in Nashville, where he "retires", but is still involved to some level. I suppose there is an option where we do develop talent and get back on the right track, but an org like Toronto throws a bank vault worth of cash at him. I think that is less likely. I really don't see the current long-tenured guys like Army, Nill, Chevy leaving by their own choice. They are living the dream of having the type of control that they've accumulated over the years.

 

[Xerloris]

So in your opinion there should be no accountability for closing the teams competitive window 3, possibly 4 yrs earlier than it should if he had made the proper calculations as a manager post-Cup? You don’t think the fanbase has a right to be pissed off about the State of the Franchise? “Remaking the team takes time” is a ridiculous comment considering he has, is and will spend a majority of his time having to clean up f*** ups of his own doing. And now it’s clear we’re up shits creek for the foreseeable future.

So tell me what he did to close the teams window? Come on, name it. Signed the best free agent LD on the market at the time? He must have injected Jbo with extra potassium to cause a heart attack to make him retire right? He forced Gunnarson to rip his knee apart and retire right? Maybe it was making Steen give him piggy back rides and that causes Steens back injury forcing him to retire. I guess he should have offered Pietrangelo the biggest contract in Blues history so he would stay. He shouldn't have forced Tarasenko to request a trade very publicly. It's also his fault ROR had one of the worst seasons of his career his final year here. Let's not forget he convinced the league to shit down for the pandemic and convinced them to have a flat cap for like 4 years. See how f***ing dumb this shit sounds? That's what you people are crying about. Oh Armstrong destroyed our team wah wah. Grow the f*** up and look at the shit that's happened since the cup. He's taken a team from complete dog shit to cup champions in less than a decade before, he can do it again. and in case you're wondering, that was our first ever cup. The dude has the right to fix the shit and do it again.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

job of gm is to put team in position to compete for Cup. army did that, and not just in 2019. we were among top 5-10 teams for years because of moves he made. and when he saw that we were no longer able to compete, he sold off guys last tdl to restock cupboard.

But, then went into '23-24 proclaiming it was a playoff team as is and that we weren't doing a rebuild in any fashion - and as things went sideways, he found new words to describe what was going on without calling it a rebuild and adamantly saying we weren't doing a rebuild.

And, he still thinks this is a playoff team and that we're not doing a rebuild. Reading everyone's comments here - yours included - no one is buying that.

and he has been steadfast in wanting to build for that next window. but he doesn't want us to look like sharks or chicago, for a variety of good reasons, so we have shortsighted fans ripping him.

1. Chicago has 3 Cups to show for it. We'd be f***ing thrilled with a 2nd one.
2. When Chicago realized its window was closed, it pivoted to rebuilding. That's why it's where it is.
3. San Jose tried extending its window for a few years after everyone else realized it was closed. That's why it's in the spot it's in now and it's not getting out of it any time soon.

We're a whole lot closer to San Jose going into 2019-20. No one here - including you - is buying we're on the doorstep of turning back up, much less turning back up and being a top-4 team next season. Armstrong is selling the idea of this being a playoff team next season, and people are starting to get ideas "if we make moves in the offseason, we can be back in the mix."

it's easy to say he screwed up x and y and z. he made mistakes. every gm does. but why do we have declining guys with ntc? bc that was price to pay to keep them during our window. happens to pretty much every top team as their guys get old. or are you just upset he misused actuarial in his press conference?

* We had to sign Schenn to 8 years with 5 of those a full NTC, the other 3 a partial NTC, the year after our Cup when he still had a year to go on his contract?
* We had to sign Faulk to 7 years with 5 of those a full NTC, the other 2 a partial NTC, immediately after trading for him, when he still had a year to go on his contract?
* We had to go sign Krug to 7 years, 5 of those a full NTC, the other 2 a partial NTC, immediately after deciding we were letting Pietrangelo walk?
* We had to sign Parayko to 8 years, 6 of those a full NTC with the other 2 a partial NTC, when he still had a year to go on his contract?
* We had to sign Kyrou to 8 years, when he still had a year on his contract just because he'd put up one 27-48-75 season?

That's 5 contracts that collectively take up a little over $31 million on the cap that we're not moving any time soon unless (until) Armstrong finds another GM to play idiot and take it and fork over golden assets in return. Even on an increasing cap, that might as well be dead cap space at the moment.

I'm not upset he misused 'actuarial' in the press conference. I think it's one of the funniest motherf***ing things I've ever heard come out of the mouth of anyone in the Blues organization, and it's 100% on par for him because it's exactly the kind of thing someone who's a f***ing idiot would say to make themselves look really, really smart knowing 90% of the people will buy it because he said actuary, that's supposed to be smart, he must be really smart.

I'm upset he's shit away what was a great chance for this franchise to capitalize on 2019 and have another Cup run, multiple Cup runs, by repeatedly self-inflicting dumb decisions and it's not just well, Bouwmeester had a heart condition and had to retire, whocoodanode we'd have to plan for life without him like if he didn't have a heart condition he'd be 40 and still playing today and still be as outstanding as he was 5 years ago.

I'm upset we've got a mediocre roster, largely trending down, where a chunk of the rest of the roster beyond those 5 contracts (ex-Buchnevich) has minimal value if we try to move it, and what's left are pieces we don't want to move - and, we're apparently going to magically trade all that shit for pure gold. Or, all that shit is magically going to transform into gold. Or, both.

I'm upset that it's been apparent for at least 3 years that defense is a long-term need for this organization and everything has been hinged on Perunovich won a Hobey Baker, he's gonna be great when it should have been apparent for a long while he's an undersized defenseman whose game is pure offense and speed, which is ill-suited for the NHL because his defense makes a raging tire fire look great.

I'm upset that after flinging shit at the wall at times - trading for Ryan Miller when we didn't need a goalie, dumping David Perron because I'm gonna f***ing do something, dumping T.J. Oshie because I'm gonna f***ing do something, investing in Jake Allen repeatedly beyond when it should have been evident he's not carrying the team anywhere, and a bunch of other moves that I don't have time to go through - he managed to strike gold in one of the most absolutely bizarre, improbable ways possible and that somehow it not just validates everything he did before, it proves he knows what he's doing and despite moves after that have increasingly failed, people keep swaying back and forth like they're doing the college alma mater, Armstrong brought us a Cup, people are willing to give him another year, 3 years, 5 years, forever to fix everything he f***ed up on the faith that he knows what he's doing because Armstrong brought us a Cup.

I'm upset about a whole bunch of other shitty decisions that should have been painfully obvious, but Armstrong brought us a Cup and then things went back and it was whocoodanodit ... but ... Armstrong brought us a Cup.

I expect better. A lot better. Maybe I'm alone in that.

 

[LetsGoBooze]

The emotions around this place lately are wild. Im confused as to what some peoples expectations were for this season? This is all playing out par for the course of where most of us thought we would be after last season: not a playoff team, but a tier above the true dogsh*t teams i.e. SJ & Chi. Why have some fans suddenly turned on DA? The team is performing exactly as expected, and aligns exactly with a re-tool which DA had stated last season we were entering. Its actually very beneficial in this type of retool to have 2-3 years worth of high 1sts, so being ok with the losing is actually part of the process. Now is DA gonna come out in the pressers and say were ok with losing in the short-term? Or he expects to lose? Hell no, that would burn his bridge with his players and the majority of casual fans. But in all actuality losing for a couple seasons can actually get us back on top quicker or atleast give us better odds to (with higher drafted players). His vision as i subjectively see it:
1. Add top ten draft selections in 2023, 2024, 2025 to our prospect pool.
2. Let some veteran contracts expire over the next 2-3 years, with a potential single buy-out if necessary.
3. Sign replacement UFAs once cap is cleared, with an emphasis on younger players.
3. Be open to hockey trades for players 26 or younger.
4. Let our prospects develop, and they will start hitting our roster in 2024 and the following couple years.
5. In 2026, pivot into the competitive window, with an eye on a playoff run, where trading future picks is a possibility for the right player w/term.
6. 2027 and beyond a new window is opened.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

Without quoting extensively, I'm going to try and answer.

Most of us thought this team would be about what it is. DA has long pitched it as more. A lot more. Not a 1-4 team, but definitely a 5-8 team. And not just as a one-off, as a consistent 5-8 team for the next 2-3 years.

This could be a retool. I don't know that DA even sees it as that. Certainly if this is a playoff team, it's not going to have "2-3 years worth of high 1sts." Even right now, this team pre-lottery would draft 12th and when you say "high 1sts" I don't think "outside the top 10" is what anyone is thinking of.

You stating that he can't say the team is going to lose short-term is exactly the point. Everyone else knows what this team is, he's pitching it as a lot more. It's pretending that the fans are dumb and that if he keeps the uber-optimistic talk up, if [when] it doesn't happen fans won't notice and/or won't care. That, to say it elegantly, is bullshit.

For your vision of his vision to play out, this team has to
* Largely rebuild the defense in the next 2 years
* Do it with hockey trades [or hope to hell any defensive prospects have explosive development and are ready in 2 years]
* Do it largely with the collection of aging players we have [or, if we're trading players with value, have prospects who are able to step into those spots and immediately or very quickly contribute more]
* Do that and get players 26 or younger who are really good and able to help open that competitive window
* Not mortgage any of the top-10 draft selections in 2023, 2024, 2025
* Not mortgage any of the highly touted prospects we have that we plan on having on the big team
* Hope young, talented players make it to UFA
* Hope those UFAs are interested in signing with us
* Hope they'll sign with us without getting a NMC or any signing bonus at all

There's a lot of shaky assumptions in there. That's how we got to where we are: dubious decision-making, increasing focus on "if everything goes right" with no margin for error. That's how teams trying to manage from one competitive window to the next without even partially bottoming out, trying to always stay in the playoffs and limp it through, end up screwing it up.

 

[Spektre]

The emotions around this place lately are wild. Im confused as to what some peoples expectations were for this season? This is all playing out par for the course of where most of us thought we would be after last season: not a playoff team, but a tier above the true dogsh*t teams i.e. SJ & Chi. Why have some fans suddenly turned on DA? The team is performing exactly as expected, and aligns exactly with a re-tool which DA had stated last season we were entering. Its actually very beneficial in this type of retool to have 2-3 years worth of high 1sts, so being ok with the losing is actually part of the process. Now is DA gonna come out in the pressers and say were ok with losing in the short-term? Or he expects to lose? Hell no, that would burn his bridge with his players and the majority of casual fans. But in all actuality losing for a couple seasons can actually get us back on top quicker or atleast give us better odds to (with higher drafted players). His vision as i subjectively see it:
1. Add top ten draft selections in 2023, 2024, 2025 to our prospect pool.
2. Let some veteran contracts expire over the next 2-3 years, with a potential single buy-out if necessary.
3. Sign replacement UFAs once cap is cleared, with an emphasis on younger players.
3. Be open to hockey trades for players 26 or younger.
4. Let our prospects develop, and they will start hitting our roster in 2024 and the following couple years.
5. In 2026, pivot into the competitive window, with an eye on a playoff run, where trading future picks is a possibility for the right player w/term.
6. 2027 and beyond a new window is opened.

There’s a couple of reasons for my change of heart on DA.

He said the correct thing not too long ago. He basically said that your plan in March should align with the plan you started with in October.

Now He’s saying there was thoughts of adding at the deadline. Add to that this make believe actuary table, and for the first time I know of he looks shaky.

It seems like he doesn’t have a clear direction. He still has one foot on the “really want to make the playoffs” mode.

It would be inexcusable to trade futures for a pending UFA in hopes of making the playoffs. I would say that is a reason to get fired as GM.

I

 

[Majorityof1]

The emotions around this place lately are wild. Im confused as to what some peoples expectations were for this season? This is all playing out par for the course of where most of us thought we would be after last season: not a playoff team, but a tier above the true dogsh*t teams i.e. SJ & Chi. Why have some fans suddenly turned on DA? The team is performing exactly as expected, and aligns exactly with a re-tool which DA had stated last season we were entering. Its actually very beneficial in this type of retool to have 2-3 years worth of high 1sts, so being ok with the losing is actually part of the process. Now is DA gonna come out in the pressers and say were ok with losing in the short-term? Or he expects to lose? Hell no, that would burn his bridge with his players and the majority of casual fans. But in all actuality losing for a couple seasons can actually get us back on top quicker or atleast give us better odds to (with higher drafted players). His vision as i subjectively see it:
1. Add top ten draft selections in 2023, 2024, 2025 to our prospect pool.
2. Let some veteran contracts expire over the next 2-3 years, with a potential single buy-out if necessary.
3. Sign replacement UFAs once cap is cleared, with an emphasis on younger players.
3. Be open to hockey trades for players 26 or younger.
4. Let our prospects develop, and they will start hitting our roster in 2024 and the following couple years.
5. In 2026, pivot into the competitive window, with an eye on a playoff run, where trading future picks is a possibility for the right player w/term.
6. 2027 and beyond a new window is opened.

You forgot step 0: f*** up several major decisions before now to close our cup window and get us in the mess.

Now, let's rename the steps"

1. Don't draft top 10 in 2024 because Army fired the coach and got a new coach bump, plus he refused to trade away player to make the team worse at the deadline.
2. Twiddle thumbs and do nothing
3. Twiddle some more, he's getting good at this
4. Rush our prospects to the NHL before they are ready, as he admitted in an interview, because he'd rather make an example of Vrana than call him up
5. By 2026, he'll be a thumb twiddling master
6. And in 2027, he'll retire from GMing to enter the thumb-twiddling Olympics.

I think its too soon to call for him to be fired based on this trade deadline. But the ice is getting thinner. If the plan is to just wait until 2026-27. then he absolutely should be fired.

 

[Reality Czech]

So in your opinion there should be no accountability for closing the teams competitive window 3, possibly 4 yrs earlier than it should if he had made the proper calculations as a manager post-Cup? You don’t think the fanbase has a right to be pissed off about the State of the Franchise? “Remaking the team takes time” is a ridiculous comment considering he has, is and will spend a majority of his time having to clean up f*** ups of his own doing. And now it’s clear we’re up shits creek for the foreseeable future.

Lol, everyone's an expert. With you at the helm, we'd be a 3-time champion by now right? If only that dummy Army read this forum instead of actively trying to ruin the franchise. Fans on this site think they know way more than they actually do. Yes, remaking teams takes time. This isn't fantasy hockey or EA sports where you can just snap your finger and acquire whatever player you want when you want. It's easy to complain from the sidelines, I guess.

I get the frustration, but we had a decade of very good teams and a long-awaited championship. Now after a couple of mediocre years where we're around .500 fans are acting like the GM doesn't know what he's doing? There's a lot of entitlement on this forum from my point of view. Lots of fan bases have it a lot worse than we do. But not sure what else you were expecting to happen this year. No dramatic changes we ever likely to happen before the summer, but that didn't stop people from writing the same complaints over and over again all season long.

 

[Linkens Mastery]

We've been spoiled for a long time as a fanbase. We were a perennial contender for 10 years and we survived the transition between the Backes-Oshie-Steen-Perron-Berglund core to the Tarasenko-Schenn-Schwartz-RoR core without any major hickups along the way.

 

[ezcreepin]

The non-sexy answer that the minority here aren't even acknowledging is that you have no idea what Armstrong is saying when he says he thought about adding. It could have been a vet that would help down the middle, a young defenseman that was potentially on the market, or any number of things that you aren't privy to. The thing about a "retool" is that you have to get really lucky with available players during the summer and the deadline, have the assets to get them without drying up the farm, and then have the team play well. Armstrong acknowledged all summer that this team should be close to making the playoffs with the roster they constructed. And for a time they were playing that way, but players cooled off and there has been regression of some older players. But we all knew, and Army as well, that this team would be on the edge of the playoffs (or have a chance) come the end of the year.

The biggest problem is that the vocal minority here who are ripping on Armstrong wouldn't be ok with a complete rebuild, because apparently it should be easy to make a strong team without missing the playoffs. The reality is that Armstrong has to teeter the line between having a slightly competitive team that makes the playoffs, but also bad enough to get a decent draft pick to keep getting those good young players. It's a lose-lose situation because you're not going to find Robert Thomases and Kyrous every year; we got lucky. But we also forget we had a very strong window of competing for like 13 years. Let the dude do what he's going to do and if by idk 2027 we aren't competing for a deep playoff run then fire him.

ps: It's really hard to win the cup. Washington had the greatest goal scorer ever, one of the best playmakers in the game, and a vezina goalie for the majority of their window and only won once. San Jose, Nashville, Dallas, Montreal, Rangers, Vancouver; some have never won and others haven't won despite monster teams for over 25 years.

 

[Xerloris]

To me a complete rebuild is committing to a losing culture to get high draft picks and hoping for the best. Well guess what, once you commit to a losing culture it's really hard to pull out of it. Just look at Edmonton. 2 of the best players in the world and they're only just now looking like a possible contender and it's been nearly 10 years since they drafted McDavid. I for one would prefer the team maintain the attitude of trying to win no matter what and never adopt that nasty loser bullshit that Edmonton and Buffalo are afflicted with.

 

[Celtic Note]

We've been spoiled for a long time as a fanbase. We were a perennial contender for 10 years and we survived the transition between the Backes-Oshie-Steen-Perron-Berglund core to the Tarasenko-Schenn-Schwartz-RoR core without any major hickups along the way.

I still firmly believe that we botched our chances with the SOB core by not prioritizing upgrading on Elliot/Halak and not targeting high profile scoring. Instead we tinkered with mediocre adds, pissed away Oshie for Brouwer (such a terrible trade) and the one time Army tried to address goaltending he picked an awful target in Miller (which also brought us Ott…woof).

 

[Xerloris]

I still firmly believe that we botched our chances with the SOB core by not prioritizing upgrading on Elliot/Halak and not targeting high profile scoring. Instead we tinkered with mediocre adds, pissed away Oshie for Brouwer (such a terrible trade) and the one time Army tried to address goaltending he picked an awful target in Miller (which also brought us Ott…woof).

Yes, Ott, a guy that ended up as a coach on our cup team. woof for sure right.

 

[Celtic Note]

The emotions around this place lately are wild. Im confused as to what some peoples expectations were for this season? This is all playing out par for the course of where most of us thought we would be after last season: not a playoff team, but a tier above the true dogsh*t teams i.e. SJ & Chi. Why have some fans suddenly turned on DA? The team is performing exactly as expected, and aligns exactly with a re-tool which DA had stated last season we were entering. Its actually very beneficial in this type of retool to have 2-3 years worth of high 1sts, so being ok with the losing is actually part of the process. Now is DA gonna come out in the pressers and say were ok with losing in the short-term? Or he expects to lose? Hell no, that would burn his bridge with his players and the majority of casual fans. But in all actuality losing for a couple seasons can actually get us back on top quicker or atleast give us better odds to (with higher drafted players). His vision as i subjectively see it:
1. Add top ten draft selections in 2023, 2024, 2025 to our prospect pool.
2. Let some veteran contracts expire over the next 2-3 years, with a potential single buy-out if necessary.
3. Sign replacement UFAs once cap is cleared, with an emphasis on younger players.
3. Be open to hockey trades for players 26 or younger.
4. Let our prospects develop, and they will start hitting our roster in 2024 and the following couple years.
5. In 2026, pivot into the competitive window, with an eye on a playoff run, where trading future picks is a possibility for the right player w/term.
6. 2027 and beyond a new window is opened.

You clearly see that this is not a playoff team (as many do), yet Army has continued to believe from the off season up until weeks ago that it could be one. That alone will cause fans to question him. If we can see what this team really is and what it’s not, then why can’t the person in charge of roster construction? That throws significant red flags.

 

[bleedblue1223]

It's weird to see long-time and reasonable posters continue to say that Army has viewed this team as a playoff team from summer of 2023 through near the trade deadline. That is such a wild conclusion that I don't even know what to make of it.

 

[Celtic Note]

It's weird to see long-time and reasonable posters continue to say that Army has viewed this team as a playoff team from summer of 2023 through near the trade deadline. That is such a wild conclusion that I don't even know what to make of it.

He said that he expected us to compete for a playoff appearance.

 

[bleedblue1223]

He said that he expected us to compete for a playoff appearance.

Compete doesn't mean he viewed as a playoff team. He expected us to be a bubble team. And look at all his moves and statements in totality. I can't remember exactly when, could've been after Berube's firing or after their little run, but I remember him saying you have to view the team like you did in July, you can't just change how you view them in the heat of the moment. None of his actions from the summer to the deadline indicated to me that his expectation was a playoff spot. After last season when the rebuild/retool/whatever was discussed, it was never the expectation that we'd only be out of the playoffs for 1 season, just that he didn't want a complete 5+ year rebuild where we tank like the Hawks or Sharks.