Blues Discussion Thread 2018-2019

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Celtic Note

Living the dream
Dec 22, 2006
17,341
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We add Fabbri, Thomas, Perron and Bozak and only subtract Brodziak from post-trade deadline lineup. Befuddles me that folks don't think we are better.
We also subtracted Stastny and Hutton, while adding Johnson.

Post-trade deadline as a break point, completely disregards what happened before that point in the season which was longer than post deadline. It seems like a break point used out of convenience.

Overall we improved. I don’t think that is debatable. But, the question is how much? And I would ask, how much did we improve relative to our goals? If we are looking relative to the playoffs, then I would expect we are back in. Are we closer to the Cup? It seems that marginally is the answer (baring massive growth from our prospects and young players). Were the moves we made prohibitive in acquiring the types of player we need to get over the hump? We solidified lineup flexibility today, which is a short term plus, but we lost roster flexibility because we shrunk our cap room. Maybe that won’t be a big deal, maybe it will.
 

MortiestOfMortys

Registered User
Jun 27, 2015
4,801
1,812
Denver, CO
It



It’s not a hot take. There is almost zero chance the current roster competes for the cup. There are simply much better teams.

It’s not just this year either. It’s the foreseeable future (next few years).

I’m not arguing that. Trading all of our prospects for a top-6 guy also wouldn’t get us any closer to winning a cup, and then we’d get to the end of his contract and have nothing to show for it.

Today was about the future. We’re continuing to build within, and these two cheap forwards on shorter contracts will bridge us over until the next wave is ready. And they will have plenty of time to get ready, and they will be supported in San Antonio by good vets and a terrific young coach. Bozak and Perron will add substantial offense to our lineup until that time comes, and their contracts are moveable if the young guys push ahead of them.

So how you feel about today’s moves really depends on how you feel about Thomas, Kyrou, Thompson, Kostin, Bokk, Husso, Sanford, Foley, Stevens, Blais, Mikkola, Walman, etc. If you don’t think those guys have the potential to win, then I can see why you would hate today. But then you would be wrong.

And not only that, but you would be wrong about our roster today being somehow worse than it was last year. Bozak and Perron will keep us competitive.

I don’t see how you can look at acquiring two 40-60 point, right shot forwards today, while giving up ZERO assets to do so, somehow a failure. Much less to a degree that you would have a full on meltdown over it.
 

Alklha

Registered User
Sep 7, 2011
16,875
2,751
Who is and isn't a top-6 player? Tarasenko, Schwartz, Schenn, Steen, Bozak and Perron are all unquestionably top-6 players when it comes to point production. Fabbri will be in that group as well if he is the player he was before the injuries. I'm not even going to mention the prospects in that group.

Are we a better team than last season? We played a majority of games last season with only 4 players who were top-6 quality in our lineup, and we missed the playoffs by 1 game. We have added 2 second line players and lost Stastny.

As for letting the kids play... what? From a strictly development standpoint, does anyone actually believe that we handled Thompson well last season? Now we should sit on our hands over the summer and throw Thomas and Kyrou, irrespective of how ready they are, into a similar situation?

If you don't want to trade the prospects, this offseason has been handled almost perfectly. If we can move either Sobotka or Berglund then it gets even better. We've kept the prospects, we have one or two top-9 spots they can win, we've got a team that should make the playoffs (barring inept goaltending) and the players we have brought in aren't on crazy contracts. If our prospects start forcing their way onto the roster, we can move players.
 

Bluesnatic27

Registered User
Aug 5, 2011
4,756
3,327
So how you feel about today’s moves really depends on how you feel about Thomas, Kyrou, Thompson, Kostin, Bokk, Husso, Sanford, Foley, Stevens, Blais, Mikkola, Walman, etc. If you don’t think those guys have the potential to win, then I can see why you would hate today. But then you would be wrong.

You really need to learn the difference between fact and opinion, because that is an incredibly definitive statement based on pure speculation.
 

David Dennison

I'm a tariff, man.
Jul 5, 2007
5,940
1,444
Grenyarnia
This seems incredibly rude to me. Not sure why it was necessary.

Lol, he cusses like a sailor and is so blind with anger over a couple of signings he can barely string a coherent argument together, but god forbid I call him impatient. And my statement described like half of the Blues fanbase, so...
 

MissouriMook

Still just a Mook among men
Sponsor
Jul 4, 2014
8,058
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Is Bozak really a downgrade over Stastny? I wasn’t all that impressed with Stastny while he was here. Solid player, but nothing special.
Stastny and Bozak are very similar caliber players. Stastny never gelled with Tarasenko so if Bozak can do that he could easily be a 55-60 point player and this deal becomes a steal. If not, we’ll definitely be rooting for Thomas to pass him by year’s end.
 

Linkens Mastery

Conductor of the TankTown Express
Jan 15, 2014
20,294
17,934
Hyrule
I don't really understand the anger about signing Bozak and Perron, both are 45+point producers coming in to hold us over until Kyrou and Thomas are ready as well as most likely being cool with moving down the lineup when needed. And I don't really see their point totals falling off a cliff either. If we can get Bozak or Thomas to mesh well with Tarasenko we are in a good position in the long run. The biggest question marks this year is if Fabbri can bounce back as well if Thomas and Kyrou can make the jump.
 
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TheDizee

Trade Jordan Kyrou ASAP | ALWAYS RIGHT
Apr 5, 2014
20,451
13,073
i imagine sobotka is gonna be moved out, blues may have cap issues with trying to resign edmundson and others otherwise
 
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Chojin

Tiny Panger...
Apr 6, 2011
4,307
585
If you look at my post history, it's apparent that I'm not a huge Armstrong fan. That said, I think correctly identified that we don't have the pieces to contend, and he's put us in a position to be dangerous if our prospects start panning out. We could just as easily have turned into the J-Bo flames or the present-day Wild, prolonging the inevitable.
 

Xerloris

reckless optimism
Jun 9, 2015
7,644
8,257
St.Louis
Just the fact we added 2 right hand shots is a large improvement imo. I'm not excited about the moves made thus far but I'm certainly not upset either. I'm very happy we didn't trade Kyrou or Thomas.
 

The Note in MI

Bow to the pyramid
Aug 21, 2013
3,151
991
Muskegon, MI
Free agency is over. The time for a significant trade I believe to be past as well. Armstrong has made a valiant effort at trying to make this team better, but there really was just nothing out there that was going to make this team better while not emptying out our prospect depth, and draft picks.

I believe that all along the hope was to add John Tavares for dollars, and to make one or two moves in the trade department for scoring wingers. Once JT was out of the picture, things transitioned to the search for a top 6 Center, particularly ROR, but when the ask was too much the blues obviously moved along here. I think this was the right move.

ROR would not take this team from mediocrity to sudden contention in the same way that the addition of Tavares would have. Spending valuable assets to obtain him to continue in mediocrity would have been poor management of said assets. Were DA able to get him for a reasonable price then ROR would probably be a Blue today.

Obviously the events of today are not the optimal outcome we had all hoped for. Reality is that we are a better team than we were yesterday. Comparison to the teams makeup during different times of last season are certainly debatable in terms of whats a better lineup. However, I ask of yo, what would you have preferred to do? We signed the third best center, and one of the top 5 available wingers in free agency and from reactions you would think today was a complete failure. Oh and did I mention that thank god these guys are RHS!

This team may not be Stanley Cup caliber as it sits today. It may not even be playoff caliber. But no moves that were available change us into a Cup contender. They aren't glamorous moves, but they are smart and conscious additions that keep us competitive but do not prevent graduation of our prospects.

I can't say that I'm optimistic about this club going into the coming season, and I'm sure many aren't. There are a ton of question marks coming into training camp for sure. But the optimism about the future of our prospects has not changed since last season, in fact I'd argue that we should have even greater optimism about our top guys given their development over the last 12 months.

This new roster is as usual with DA a very versatile makeup. We have a ton of options for the makeup of the lineup on a day in and day out basis. Each player can play up and down the lineup at this point. I think that is a great thing to have with the youth movement.

I would argue the best approach to this season comes in two different scenarios.

1. We are a bubble team or out of the playoffs throughout the season, and come the deadline, are not in the playoffs.
- Be sellers at this point. Similar to this year, make the prudent move for futures to move roster players such as Sobotka, Berglund, Gunarsson, Bouwmeester. Obtain some draft picks, take on expiring cap dumps if necessary, but continue to fill up that cupboard of prospects. Play the kids down the stretch and let them take the reigns. Attempt to make the big splash again next offseason, loaded with futures ammo.

2. We are a playoff team, the rookies are impressing, and we look to be set to contend with the remaining teams in the west, within reason.
- Keep the roster the same, or push for a deadline acquisition of a forward with term who fills a need to be determined over the season. At this point I would consider moving defensive depth to augment ammo for this acquisition.

Going into the season with a roster of:

Schwartz Schenn Kyrou/Thompson
Fabbri Bozak Tarasenko
Steen Thomas Kyrou/Thompson
Three of Berglund, Barbashev, Jaskin, Sanford, Blais, Sundquist, Thorburn

Id even entertain

Schwartz Schenn Thomas
Fabbri Bozak Tarasenko
Steen Barbashev Perron
 
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CaliforniaBlues310

Registered User
Apr 9, 2013
4,746
3,747
San Pedro, CA.
Free agency is over. The time for a significant trade I believe to be past as well. Armstrong has made a valiant effort at trying to make this team better, but there really was just nothing out there that was going to make this team better while not emptying out our prospect depth, and draft picks.

I believe that all along the hope was to add John Tavares for dollars, and to make one or two moves in the trade department for scoring wingers. Once JT was out of the picture, things transitioned to the search for a top 6 Center, particularly ROR, but when the ask was too much the blues obviously moved along here. I think this was the right move.

ROR would not take this team from mediocrity to sudden contention in the same way that the addition of Tavares would have. Spending valuable assets to obtain him to continue in mediocrity would have been poor management of said assets. Were DA able to get him for a reasonable price then ROR would probably be a Blue today.

Obviously the events of today are not the optimal outcome we had all hoped for. Reality is that we are a better team than we were yesterday. Comparison to the teams makeup during different times of last season are certainly debatable in terms of whats a better lineup. However, I ask of yo, what would you have preferred to do? We signed the third best center, and one of the top 5 available wingers in free agency and from reactions you would think today was a complete failure. Oh and did I mention that thank god these guys are RHS!

This team may not be Stanley Cup caliber as it sits today. It may not even be playoff caliber. But no moves that were available change us into a Cup contender. They aren't glamorous moves, but they are smart and conscious additions that keep us competitive but do not prevent graduation of our prospects.

I can't say that I'm optimistic about this club going into the coming season, and I'm sure many aren't. There are a ton of question marks coming into training camp for sure. But the optimism about the future of our prospects has not changed since last season, in fact I'd argue that we should have even greater optimism about our top guys given their development over the last 12 months.

This new roster is as usual with DA a very versatile makeup. We have a ton of options for the makeup of the lineup on a day in and day out basis. Each player can play up and down the lineup at this point. I think that is a great thing to have with the youth movement.

I would argue the best approach to this season comes in two different scenarios.

1. We are a bubble team or out of the playoffs throughout the season, and come the deadline, are not in the playoffs.
- Be sellers at this point. Similar to this year, make the prudent move for futures to move roster players such as Sobotka, Berglund, Gunarsson, Bouwmeester. Obtain some draft picks, take on expiring cap dumps if necessary, but continue to fill up that cupboard of prospects. Play the kids down the stretch and let them take the reigns. Attempt to make the big splash again next offseason, loaded with futures ammo.

2. We are a playoff team, the rookies are impressing, and we look to be set to contend with the remaining teams in the west, within reason.
- Keep the roster the same, or push for a deadline acquisition of a forward with term who fills a need to be determined over the season. At this point I would consider moving defensive depth to augment ammo for this acquisition.

Going into the season with a roster of:

Schwartz Schenn Kyrou/Thompson
Fabbri Bozak Perron
Steen Thomas Berglund
Three of Barbashev, Jaskin, Sanford, Blais, Sundquist, Thorburn

Id even entertain

Schwartz Schenn Thomas
Fabbri Bozak Perron
Steen Barbashev Berglund

You’re missing someone...

With that said I 100% agree with this. Our team will be fine.
 
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Celtic Note

Living the dream
Dec 22, 2006
17,341
6,310
If you look at my post history, it's apparent that I'm not a huge Armstrong fan. That said, I think correctly identified that we don't have the pieces to contend, and he's put us in a position to be dangerous if our prospects start panning out. We could just as easily have turned into the J-Bo flames or the present-day Wild, prolonging the inevitable.

The moves today signal a heavy commitment to our prospects. Ultimately winning a Cup is now on their shoulders. When I say on their shoulders, I mean that they will be the make or break points in our success. Either they reach a high level or we return to where we have been before. Good, but not good enough. If at least two of them hit their ceiling, then we may finally break through.

The one thing that I sort of like about the commitment to our youth is that the fate of our team more heavily skews to Bill Armstrong than ever before. It also takes some of the active involvement from Doug, which is a positive in my book.
 

MortiestOfMortys

Registered User
Jun 27, 2015
4,801
1,812
Denver, CO


We added another depth dman, Calgary’s Tyler Wotherspoon. A 6’2” dman who has had really good AHL numbers for years but hasn’t quite figured it out in the NHL. Got passed over by other draftees, but was a 2nd rounder back in the Edmundson/Jaskin/Rattie draft (2011). Good signing, should just about round out that Rampage lineup, as we will be stocking that roster with mostly our draftees.
 

Spektre

Registered User
Apr 10, 2010
9,079
6,821
Krynn
At least they filled out a lineup, whereas you stopped halfway thru and starting whining that Kyrou wont make it out of camp or that you wanted to trade him or something.


Perhaps you are a new Blues fan. Maybe you have the patience of a saint? Like it or not there’s hardly any argument about where the organization was going into this offseason. It’s shit or get off the pot time. You don’t get to horde all your prospects only to not play them.

The Blues have Steen, Sobotka, Berglund, Perron, and Bozak taking up 5 of the top 9 slots for the next 3 years (except Sobotka for 2 more years)

Tarasenko, Schwartz, and Schenn bring that total to 8 out of the top 9. Fabbri makes it 9. Thomas should never play on the 4th line. Who gets bumped to the 4th line, Berglund, or Sobotka? That’s piss poor asset management. Berglund should never have been resigned before he had to be. Once the Blues did commit to Berglund they should have traded Sobotka’s rights.

This team as is has too much 3rd line depth. The organization is an oxymoron. We hear from Army again and again that the NHL is getting younger and faster. His solution to that realization is Perron and Bozak?

I’d rather see a youth movement rebuild. I don’t want to watch 3 more years of mediocrity. It’s a waste. The way this roster is constructed there’s no this team is competing for a cup.

Convince me it’s better for the organization to tread water for 3 years, possibly barely making the playoffs, only to lose in the early rounds vs playing every kid possible and getting a top 10 pick for 3 years.
 
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