Blues Discussion Thread 2018-2019

[Dbrownss]

I love Dunn, but Dunn + 1st for ROR is a no brainer for me. I even think we’d have to add a decent piece to that like Barbashev or Sanford type.

If all it costs you is Dunn and a 1st for ROR, you do that 100 times out of 100.
Having said that...it would rightfully cost more. Dunn, Kyrou and a 1st would be the minimum to get past Botterill's secretary.

So back to zero offense or puck moving ability from the left side and a solid 1/2 center depth. Value wise it easily favors Stl but I wouldn't move Dunn in any trade that doesn't involve a PMD LHD. We've waited quite a while to start to solidify the left side, no need to tear it down now.

 

[simon IC]

I think our top 4 D, (Captain Obvious here, but just in case … Pietro, Parayko, Ed and Dunn), should be untouchable. I don't mean that in terms of value, it is more of a "don't fix what isn't broke." We are set with an excellent top 4, I would say one of the best in the League. Leave it alone.

 

[Xerloris]

I would say that if Parayko doesn't start being assertive with both his shot and his physical play that I would rather trade him than Dunn.

 

[BlueDream]

So back to zero offense or puck moving ability from the left side and a solid 1/2 center depth. Value wise it easily favors Stl but I wouldn't move Dunn in any trade that doesn't involve a PMD LHD. We've waited quite a while to start to solidify the left side, no need to tear it down now.

I agree. I just can't trade Dunn. If that means 2/3 of our LHD is Bouwmeester and Gunnarsson again every night, I would puke. That's just not good.

This is going to be an unpopular opinion maybe, but if it really came down to it, I'd trade Edmundson before Dunn quite easily. And maybe even Parayko too. I don't want to trade those guys at all either, but Dunn has way too much skill to let go of. He's the best skater on our blueline and makes some plays with the puck that only Pietrangelo can make, he's a stud.

Now, hopefully Thornton re-signs with San Jose. Couture, Thornton, Suomela, Pavelski, Tierney, even Hertl can play C... that's a lot of depth there and hopefully it'd take them out of the JT race.

 

[Brian39]

I would say that if Parayko doesn't start being assertive with both his shot and his physical play that I would rather trade him than Dunn.

Even if Parayko never improves at all, I wouldn't trade him until our RD prospect depth improves. We have 2 good LD prospects at the moment in Walman and Mikkola who are both still very young by D man standards. Our only real RD prospect is Schmaltz and he will be 25 in October. I'm less comfortable that he could replace Parayko than one of Mikkola or Walman being able to replace an Ed or Dunn.

Unless it is for a truly elite player, I'm not in favor of trading any of Ed/Dunn/Petro/Parayko. That should be a very good top 4 for half a decade and we shouldn't mess with it unless we're fleecing another team.

 

[Brian39]

I agree. I just can't trade Dunn. If that means 2/3 of our LHD is Bouwmeester and Gunnarsson again every night, I would puke. That's just not good.

This is going to be an unpopular opinion maybe, but if it really came down to it, I'd trade Edmundson before Dunn quite easily. And maybe even Parayko too. I don't want to trade those guys at all either, but Dunn has way too much skill to let go of. He's the best skater on our blueline and makes some plays with the puck that only Pietrangelo can make, he's a stud.

Now, hopefully Thornton re-signs with San Jose. Couture, Thornton, Suomela, Pavelski, Tierney, even Hertl can play C... that's a lot of depth there and hopefully it'd take them out of the JT race.

SJ knows damn well that Thornton will wait for them to get their ducks in a row, figure out how to make the cap work and offer him a contract. There is zero chance that they take themselves out of the Tavares running to lock up Thornton early. I believe I heard it on the 31 Thoughts podcast, but they mentioned that he is willing to take a big discount to stay in SJ and a big part of the reason why is because he is comfortable with the knee doctors/therapists in the area and doesn't want to change his medical providers in his late 30s.

I think Thornton will likely retire if he's not back in SJ and will probably take whatever discount they need him to take if they land Tavares. He certainly isn't signing elsewhere if SJ is even a remote possibility, so there is no need for them to sign him before taking a crack at JT.

 

[LetsGoBooze]

If all it costs you is Dunn and a 1st for ROR, you do that 100 times out of 100.

Agreed. LHDs are a lot easier to find then top6 Cs. As much as i love Dunn, that is a no-brainer.

 

[Mike Liut]

Would you trade the entire Blues team and their prospects for LV entire system?

 

[BlueDream]

Would you trade the entire Blues team and their prospects for LV entire system?

No. I would take our roster over theirs very easily. We will see if Karlsson can repeat himself, but I still value Tarasenko more than any of their forwards.

Pietrangelo is insanely better than any of their defensemen. Parayko is likely better than all of them too.

And heck, I’d still take our prospects over theirs.

The only advantage they have is Fleury.

But, barring any significant changes I’d be surprised to see them go deep again next year. They had bar none one of the weakest teams to ever make the Cup Final and it ended up showing.

 

[Dbrownss]

Agreed. LHDs are a lot easier to find then top6 Cs. As much as i love Dunn, that is a no-brainer.

Really...then why has it taken this long to get a guy like Dunn? We've had Backes, Stastny and now Schenn before a guy like Dunn. Both positions are hard to fill.

 

[Dbrownss]

No. I would take our roster over theirs very easily. We will see if Karlsson can repeat himself, but I still value Tarasenko more than any of their forwards.

Pietrangelo is insanely better than any of their defensemen. Parayko is likely better than all of them too.

And heck, I’d still take our prospects over theirs.

The only advantage they have is Fleury.

But, barring any significant changes I’d be surprised to see them go deep again next year. They had bar none one of the weakest teams to ever make the Cup Final and it ended up showing.

They were talking about this on NHL, too many things went right for Vegas this year.

 

[KirkOut]

Really...then why has it taken this long to get a guy like Dunn? We've had Backes, Stastny and now Schenn before a guy like Dunn. Both positions are hard to fill.

Shattenkirk

 

[Novacain]

Shattenkirk

RHD. So not really related to this debate.

 

[Dbrownss]

Shattenkirk

Right side has been strong for a long time. While Shattenkirk was a excellent PP guy, he wasnt great in the dzone and couldn't skate like Dunn

 

[simon IC]

Agreed. LHDs are a lot easier to find then top6 Cs. As much as i love Dunn, that is a no-brainer.

I had a similar argument with another poster, except the return was Kessel instead of ROR. The issue that nobody seems to be addressing, is that the deal would not be Dunn and a late 1st for Kessel or ROR. Both forwards would cost a lot more than Dunn and a late 1st.

 

[simon IC]

Also, what is with some people saying that our "big 4" forward prospects should be untouchable, but our D prospects are easily replaceable? I don't get that at all.

 

[LetsGoBooze]

Really...then why has it taken this long to get a guy like Dunn? We've had Backes, Stastny and now Schenn before a guy like Dunn. Both positions are hard to fill.

Bouwmeester good sir. He came well after Backes.

 

[LetsGoBooze]

Also, what is with some people saying that our "big 4" forward prospects should be untouchable, but our D prospects are easily replaceable? I don't get that at all.

I think its same people who wouldnt move the 'big 4' that also dont want to move any of our top 4 D as well. I work under the assumption you have to give to get. I literally would move anyone on the roster for the right price.

 

[Dbrownss]

Bouwmeester good sir. He came well after Backes.

Boumeester didnt come after Backes but Boumeester still isnt the same type of dman Dunn is.

 

[Thallis]

No. I would take our roster over theirs very easily. We will see if Karlsson can repeat himself, but I still value Tarasenko more than any of their forwards.

Pietrangelo is insanely better than any of their defensemen. Parayko is likely better than all of them too.

And heck, I’d still take our prospects over theirs.

The only advantage they have is Fleury.

But, barring any significant changes I’d be surprised to see them go deep again next year. They had bar none one of the weakest teams to ever make the Cup Final and it ended up showing.

The thing that would make me consider doing that would be the flexibility they have to go with their building blocks. They have 26 Million in cap space, are now a prime destination, and have the right foundation of for the modern NHL. I expect them to make a move for Erik Karlsson over the summer, and shore up their second and third lines to provide better depth scoring, and generally be a better overall team next year. We have higher top end skill, but supplementing that is more difficult for us than it will be for Vegas.

 

[BlueDream]

The thing that would make me consider doing that would be the flexibility they have to go with their building blocks. They have 26 Million in cap space, are now a prime destination, and have the right foundation of for the modern NHL. I expect them to make a move for Erik Karlsson over the summer, and shore up their second and third lines to provide better depth scoring, and generally be a better overall team next year. We have higher top end skill, but supplementing that is more difficult for us than it will be for Vegas.

Yeah I agree I can see Karlsson ending up there but making St. Louis a 'prime spot' like Vegas isn't possible so I'm just going based off the rosters.

If Armstrong is smart and tries hard to dump Sobotka/Berglund and maybe even one of Bouwmeester or Gunnarsson (2 of these 4 SHOULD be gone by opening night IMO) then we will have plenty of cap space ourselves.

 

[The Note in MI]

Yeah I agree I can see Karlsson ending up there but making St. Louis a 'prime spot' like Vegas isn't possible so I'm just going based off the rosters.

If Armstrong is smart and tries hard to dump Sobotka/Berglund and maybe even one of Bouwmeester or Gunnarsson (2 of these 4 SHOULD be gone by opening night IMO) then we will have plenty of cap space ourselves.

I firmly believe that Sobotka will be gone. Berglund I don’t believe will be moved this year, his contract is too protected for that to be a realistic move.

Both of Gunnarsson and Bouwmeester have to be available at this point, and I think both are desirable in trade if they were healthy. Both of them undergoing rehab and recovery for serious injuries makes their value tenuous. I think they could be moved for a mid to late pick and a conditional 2/3rd rounder if they play X number of games.

 

[Kind Sir]

Boumeester didnt come after Backes but Boumeester still isnt the same type of dman Dunn is.

Backes drafted 2003, Boumeester traded to Blues 2013. Please explain.

 

[MortiestOfMortys]

I firmly believe that Sobotka will be gone. Berglund I don’t believe will be moved this year, his contract is too protected for that to be a realistic move.

Both of Gunnarsson and Bouwmeester have to be available at this point, and I think both are desirable in trade if they were healthy. Both of them undergoing rehab and recovery for serious injuries makes their value tenuous. I think they could be moved for a mid to late pick and a conditional 2/3rd rounder if they play X number of games.

He has a 20-team no-trade list, that’s far from untradeable. Stastny had a full NTC, and we had no problems moving him this year. It isn’t like Berglund is in a Shattenkirk situation where he feels like he needs to hold out for a big UFA contract, and AFAIK he isn’t married and doesn’t have kids. If we want to move him, I really don’t think we would struggle to do so.

However, with all that said, I also don’t think he’s going to be the guy leaving this summer haha. If he can manage to stay healthy, he’s good for 20+ goals easily, he’s solid defensively, and terrific physically and along the boards. If he can play a whole season where he isn’t rehabbing a major shoulder surgery, we aren’t going to do much better than Bergie on the 3rd line.

 

[Dbrownss]

Backes drafted 2003, Boumeester traded to Blues 2013. Please explain.

In struggling to get what this has to do with it and why Boumeester is relevant to Dunn. Because Bouwmeester as the Blues know him isn't close to what Dunn is