Blues Discussion Thread 2018-2019

[BlueDream]

I like the discussion going on here about possible players that could help us.

I think the main thing with getting a center is who we can get without giving up a player like Parayko. This will be our main obstacle. I think teams will be pushing hard for a top 4 d-man, which we can provide but obviously don't want to. The Blues will of course be trying to push futures. This may determine who we end up with.

I'd love a guy like O'Reilly. He could be great here. Just wonder about the cost.

 

[The Note in MI]

Gin

When moving players off the roster or cobbling together a proposed roster for next year, don't forget that we occasionally have to kill penalties. I'm all for moving on from Sobotka, but we would be losing a good PK player. I would really like to bring Brodziak back as 4C if only for his excellence in killing penalties. Despite the fact that he will eventually excel at it, I don't see a kid like Thomas being given too much responsibility on the PK early on, so you're going to need at least 6 forwards in the lineup that can do it well.

Thomas is an awesome penalty killer for Hamilton I think he would do at least as well as many of our current pkers

 

[Shwabeal]

Gin


Thomas is an awesome penalty killer for Hamilton I think he would do at least as well as many of our current pkers

I think the Blues would be fine on the PK even without Sobotka. It's not like they were great on it this year with him. Brodziak is the guy I'd be worried about losing if we're simply focused on the PK. Steen, Schwartz, Schenn, Soshnikov, Barbashev, Brodziak (if he's re-signed), Berglund, etc. That group really wouldn't be much more impressive with Sobotka in it imo.

 

[The Note in MI]

What are the odds we sign Perron? Seems like a very Armstrong type move. I do wonder what he will command as he likely doesn’t repeat his season from this year, though 50 points is certainly attainable. He’s not exactly the guy a lot of us would be looking for but he wouldn’t cost anything but $ unlike many of our RW options. He can play PP and is a RHS. Would be someone who could play third line if we decide to upgrade at the TDL.

Schwartz Schenn Perron
Fabbri 1/2C Tarasenko
Steen Thomas 3RW

If Kyrou plays fantastic then maybe this is more palatable?

Schwartz Schenn Kyrou
Fabbri 1/2C Tarasenko
Steen Thomas Perron

Another option would be to sign Stastny or Bozak instead after moving salary out (Sobotka Berglund and Gunnarsson) then trade/sign a 1/2C and move Thomas to wing

Schwartz 5.35 Schenn 5.125 Thomas .925
Fabbri 1.5 Tavares 12.5 Tarasenko 7.5
Steen 5.75 Stastny 5.5 Thompson .925/Kyrou
Barbashev .741- Brodziak 1.5- Soshnikov .750
Thorburn .900 & Sundqvist .750
Forwards: 49.716

Edmundson 4.25 Pietrangelo 6.5
Dunn .722 Parayko 5.5
Bortuzzo 1.05 Schmaltz .925
Butler .650
Gunnar and JBo start season on LTIR
Defense: 19.55
24.355 with Bouwmeester in and Butler out.

Allen 4.35
Husso .847
Goalie 5.197

Total cap: 74.433 with Gunn and JBo on LTIR.
79.243 with JBo in and Gunnarsson, Berglund and Sobotka moved. That’s a lot to ask for however.


More I look at it I’m kind of loving a top six of
Schwartz Schenn Thomas
Fabbri Tavares Tarasenko

DROOL. I don’t care what the bottom six looks like after that. Just sign me up. Brodziak or Barbashev or Berglund can play the 3C and do just fine with Steen and Thompson/Kyrou. We have an abundance of cheap Bottom 6ers. Of course that’s all dependent on us signing Tavares. But I’m confident that Thomas would be an amazing fit with the Schenn and Schwartz combo.

 

[Shwabeal]

What are the odds we sign Perron? Seems like a very Armstrong type move. I do wonder what he will command as he likely doesn’t repeat his season from this year, though 50 points is certainly attainable. He’s not exactly the guy a lot of us would be looking for but he wouldn’t cost anything but $ unlike many of our RW options. He can play PP and is a RHS. Would be someone who could play third line if we decide to upgrade at the TDL.

Schwartz Schenn Perron
Fabbri 1/2C Tarasenko
Steen Thomas 3RW

If Kyrou plays fantastic then maybe this is more palatable?

Schwartz Schenn Kyrou
Fabbri 1/2C Tarasenko
Steen Thomas Perron

Another option would be to sign Stastny or Bozak instead after moving salary out (Sobotka Berglund and Gunnarsson) then trade/sign a 1/2C and move Thomas to wing

Schwartz 5.35 Schenn 5.125 Thomas .925
Fabbri 1.5 Tavares 12.5 Tarasenko 7.5
Steen 5.75 Stastny 5.5 Thompson .925/Kyrou
Barbashev .741- Brodziak 1.5- Soshnikov .750
Thorburn .900 & Sundqvist .750
Forwards: 49.716

Edmundson 4.25 Pietrangelo 6.5
Dunn .722 Parayko 5.5
Bortuzzo 1.05 Schmaltz .925
Butler .650
Gunnar and JBo start season on LTIR
Defense: 19.55
24.355 with Bouwmeester in and Butler out.

Allen 4.35
Husso .847
Goalie 5.197

Total cap: 74.433 with Gunn and JBo on LTIR.
79.243 with JBo in and Gunnarsson, Berglund and Sobotka moved. That’s a lot to ask for however.


More I look at it I’m kind of loving a top six of
Schwartz Schenn Thomas
Fabbri Tavares Tarasenko

DROOL. I don’t care what the bottom six looks like after that. Just sign me up. Brodziak or Barbashev or Berglund can play the 3C and do just fine with Steen and Thompson/Kyrou. We have an abundance of cheap Bottom 6ers. Of course that’s all dependent on us signing Tavares. But I’m confident that Thomas would be an amazing fit with the Schenn and Schwartz combo.

DROOL is right....that would be unreal. I see Thomas starting on the third line regardless of what we do though. Whether that be as a C or a RW.

 

[BlueDream]

I don't get why anyone thinks we will sign Perron. The first time around he wasn't a fit, and we traded him. The second time around he was decent but then had a dreadful playoffs, and we left him exposed in favor of freakin Ryan Reaves.

It's pretty clear to me the Blues don't exactly covet the guy. Not to mention he just had the best season of his career that he has virtually no chance of replicating, so he's likely going to be overpaid. He's also 30 now, and is pretty slow. I mean, for all the clamoring about wanting change on these boards I just don't understand why we keep going back to this guy...? He's not that great. I want actual change. Someone new who hasn't played here before. Not circling back to a guy for the 3rd time when we never got anywhere with him on the team the first 2 times.

I mean if Armstrong strikes out on his first 15 choices then yeah maybe it's possible he panics and goes back to him. But I doubt he's on Doug's radar as we currently stand.

(Not to mention that with another expansion draft in a couple years, I doubt Perron is going to want to sign here anyways just to get shown the door again lol).

 

[mw2noobbuster]

Please no to Perron. He also did very bad when placed at RW.

 

[The Note in MI]

I don't get why anyone thinks we will sign Perron. The first time around he wasn't a fit, and we traded him. The second time around he was decent but then had a dreadful playoffs, and we left him exposed in favor of freakin Ryan Reaves.

It's pretty clear to me the Blues don't exactly covet the guy. Not to mention he just had the best season of his career that he has virtually no chance of replicating, so he's likely going to be overpaid. He's also 30 now, and is pretty slow. I mean, for all the clamoring about wanting change on these boards I just don't understand why we keep going back to this guy...? He's not that great. I want actual change. Someone new who hasn't played here before. Not circling back to a guy for the 3rd time when we never got anywhere with him on the team the first 2 times.

I mean if Armstrong strikes out on his first 15 choices then yeah maybe it's possible he panics and goes back to him. But I doubt he's on Doug's radar as we currently stand.

(Not to mention that with another expansion draft in a couple years, I doubt Perron is going to want to sign here anyways just to get shown the door again lol).

While i agree with all the points that you've made its just very much something I can see Armstrong doing. I hope that it's a last line idea, but I can only prepare myself for the chance that it may happen.

Also didn't we expose him because we were moving Reaves + 2nd for a 1st rounder and Sundquist? Perron most likely didn't have that sort of value and is why he got exposed.

Also I'm not sure why everyone feels the need to harp on the speed thing as if Everyone thinks that's what we need. Sure I'd like to see us get faster but I also realize that like and reality isn't the same. Sometimes we have to settle for the BPA ast the time in order to ice a competitive roster.

 

[Brian39]

Please no to Perron. He also did very bad when placed at RW.

He's played RW in Vegas this year most of the time and his 46 points for us in 16/17 all came on the RW and was essentially exactly what I was expecting of him. I'm not in favor of bringing him back, but I disagree that he does bad as a RW. That's primarily what he's played through his career.

 

[Brian39]

More I look at it I’m kind of loving a top six of
Schwartz Schenn Thomas
Fabbri Tavares Tarasenko

DROOL. I don’t care what the bottom six looks like after that. Just sign me up. Brodziak or Barbashev or Berglund can play the 3C and do just fine with Steen and Thompson/Kyrou. We have an abundance of cheap Bottom 6ers. Of course that’s all dependent on us signing Tavares. But I’m confident that Thomas would be an amazing fit with the Schenn and Schwartz combo.

While I wouldn't mind seeing Thomas with them occasionally if he is ready, I think it is better for his development to play center in the NHL. He's hands down our best C prospect and the organization needs him to develop into a 2nd line center. Our organization is in better shape if he develops into a solid, defensively responsible 2nd line center than a legit 1st line RW (unless we sign Tavares and Kostin/Kyrou both bust completely). I'd rather throw a random body with Schwartz/Schenn and potentially get a rental for a playoff push for that spot and let Thomas center Steen and whoever else on the 3rd line.

 

[Weiss1604]

Much better options out there than Bozak , we'd regret signing him in a heartbeat . I'm pretty sure Johnson , Bjugstad , Jarnkrok + others could be added by trade with the latter two coming relatively cheaply . Bozak has been poor this season apart from the face off dot + the occasional power play but that's mainly been Marner making him look good . If we cannot get JT ( highly likely ) , I'd preferably look at these options through a trade & start them on the second/first line with Fabbri + Vladdy . Johnson would be first choice & I can absolutely see Tampa trading him with Point already their 2C + they could do with the cap space & his no trade clause starts July 1st , maybe something like Tage + peg 1St + b prospect might get it done .
Fingers crossed for April 28th , you just never know , Svechnikov would look great in a blues Jersey next season as would Dahlin , god knows we are due a bit of luck .
Subotka surely has to go & I'm hoping he's not the only one .
P.s Stay away from grit lol

 

[Thallis]

Bozak is obviously not ideal, but he's a legit 2C, which is better than what we can say for anyone else on our roster.

 

[mw2noobbuster]

He's played RW in Vegas this year most of the time and his 46 points for us in 16/17 all came on the RW and was essentially exactly what I was expecting of him. I'm not in favor of bringing him back, but I disagree that he does bad as a RW. That's primarily what he's played through his career.

Are you sure? The Perron-Haula-Neal combo was a line for almost the whole season according to LeftWingLock and Perron played LW for it. I didn't watch the Vegas games so maybe it's false info but it looks like he played LW for the majority of the season.

 

[Ranksu]

Bozak is obviously not ideal, but he's a legit 2C, which is better than what we can say for anyone else on our roster.

What we've our own Bozak in team.

 

[Frenzy31]

Much better options out there than Bozak , we'd regret signing him in a heartbeat . I'm pretty sure Johnson , Bjugstad , Jarnkrok + others could be added by trade with the latter two coming relatively cheaply . Bozak has been poor this season apart from the face off dot + the occasional power play but that's mainly been Marner making him look good . If we cannot get JT ( highly likely ) , I'd preferably look at these options through a trade & start them on the second/first line with Fabbri + Vladdy . Johnson would be first choice & I can absolutely see Tampa trading him with Point already their 2C + they could do with the cap space & his no trade clause starts July 1st , maybe something like Tage + peg 1St + b prospect might get it done .
Fingers crossed for April 28th , you just never know , Svechnikov would look great in a blues Jersey next season as would Dahlin , god knows we are due a bit of luck .
Subotka surely has to go & I'm hoping he's not the only one .
P.s Stay away from grit lol

While I completely agree that Bozak is nothing special - however, he has been extremely productive with scoring wingers (Kessel). We are not looking for someone to carry the puck for VT, but someone who can complement his play. I think it is one of the reasons Stas and VT didn't work all that well together. Both like to have the puck on their stick to be effective. VT isn't a find the quiet place on the ice and onetime it - he likes to come in off the wing and shoot.

While I like Johnson better then Bozak, I don't like his acquisition cost. He isn't going to come cheap. Even in you proposal, you are giving up 2 prime assets - move then we gave up for Schenn. I would rather hold onto the assets and make a move for that ideal player. Bozak the cost is likely $5.5 per year. I can live with that. (Bjugstad is likely unavailable and Jarnkrok is a retread - Bozak is better then he is). It isn't ideal, but he can slide down as Thomas develops.

Svechnikov would be ideal - praying really had for a top 3 pick.

 

[Weiss1604]

Bozak is obviously not ideal, but he's a legit 2C, which is better than what we can say for anyone else on our roster.

Sorry mate but he's definitely not a legit 2c , far from it .

 

[Weiss1604]

While I completely agree that Bozak is nothing special - however, he has been extremely productive with scoring wingers (Kessel). We are not looking for someone to carry the puck for VT, but someone who can complement his play. I think it is one of the reasons Stas and VT didn't work all that well together. Both like to have the puck on their stick to be effective. VT isn't a find the quiet place on the ice and onetime it - he likes to come in off the wing and shoot.

While I like Johnson better then Bozak, I don't like his acquisition cost. He isn't going to come cheap. Even in you proposal, you are giving up 2 prime assets - move then we gave up for Schenn. I would rather hold onto the assets and make a move for that ideal player. Bozak the cost is likely $5.5 per year. I can live with that. (Bjugstad is likely unavailable and Jarnkrok is a retread - Bozak is better then he is). It isn't ideal, but he can slide down as Thomas develops.

Svechnikov would be ideal - praying really had for a top 3 pick.

Well let's hope for Svechnikov then because in that scenario Tage would not be needed .
Jarnkrok is far better than Bozak mate , we will have to disagree on that one + he's astute defensively & not a liability like Bozak who's been simply dreadful 5on5 & padded his stats with a Marner inspired powerplay or JVR sniping afew .
Your reasoning i can get on board so i applaud you for that .
I think Bjugstad would be available with Borgstrom & Tippet on the big club next year + i don't really think he fits their style of play but he's played wing all year & probably wouldn't be ideal , although playing with Fabbri + Vladdy he doesn't have to invent the wheel + he's strong defensively which would help negate their weaknesses .
Totally agree whoever we sign or trade for will slide down as Thomas develops , hopefully that's sooner rather than later .
Fingers crossed for a bit of lotto love from the hockey gods .

 

[Thallis]

Sorry mate but he's definitely not a legit 2c , far from it .

He has a career average of 50 points per 82 games. This year was his lowest scoring year since his sophomore season with 43, while shooting significantly below his career average shooting %. That's unmistakably 2nd line production.

 

[Stealth JD]

As far as LW are concerned I’d take Perron over Steen at this point, all things considered (contracts).

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

As far as LW are concerned I’d take Perron over Steen at this point, all things considered (contracts).

Not even close. Steen is such a heart and soul guy. He doesn't put points up like he used to, but he does so much for this team still. Would love to see his jersey up in rafters one day.

 

[Weiss1604]

He has a career average of 50 points per 82 games. This year was his lowest scoring year since his sophomore season with 43, while shooting significantly below his career average shooting %. That's unmistakably 2nd line production.

He's 32 now & is only going to get worse . His stats were padded for years playing with 2 elite wingers in Kessel & JVR . Like i said earlier he was simply woeful at even strength & his stats were terrible at 5v5 , i would provide these but i'm sure you already know these as you seem like a stats guy , this was his worse career year by far & luck as your implying ( shooting percentage ) had nothing to do with this .
That's the problem with only looking at stats you can show them conveniently to back up your point whilst leaving out the far more important stats .
The eye test also tells how bad he's been , he has been a defensive black hole despite getting favourable match ups + ask any maple leaf fan who's watched 82 games ( i've seen about 15/ 20) & they'd be happy to let you know how terrible his play is.
In closing i don't mean to be rude or ridicule your point of view but i unreservedly disagree with you . His best years are behind him & his good years were highly influenced by Mr Kessel & Mr JVR .
Free agency is a GM'S death knell & i'm sorry but Bozak is absolutely not a 2nd line centre in any way ,shape or form .

 

[Thallis]

He's 32 now & is only going to get worse . His stats were padded for years playing with 2 elite wingers in Kessel & JVR . Like i said earlier he was simply woeful at even strength & his stats were terrible at 5v5 , i would provide these but i'm sure you already know these as you seem like a stats guy , this was his worse career year by far & luck as your implying ( shooting percentage ) had nothing to do with this .
That's the problem with only looking at stats you can show them conveniently to back up your point whilst leaving out the far more important stats .
The eye test also tells how bad he's been , he has been a defensive black hole despite getting favourable match ups + ask any maple leaf fan who's watched 82 games ( i've seen about 15/ 20) & they'd be happy to let you know how terrible his play is.
In closing i don't mean to be rude or ridicule your point of view but i unreservedly disagree with you . His best years are behind him & his good years were highly influenced by Mr Kessel & Mr JVR .
Free agency is a GM'S death knell & i'm sorry but Bozak is absolutely not a 2nd line centre in any way ,shape or form .

His stats 5on5 are fine. 30 points, 4th on the leafs in CF and RelCorsi while not being sheltered. He continued his production even when he wasn't with Kessel, but it's not like that matters, because he's likely with Tarasenko if he comes here. With the state of our powerplay, we're not exactly in position to start discounting a player's PP work. This is a clear outlier year in terms of shooting percentage, and he still produced at the average rate for a 2nd liner with 42 points. If he had shot at his career average, he would have been at 21 goals and 54 points. Had he hit his next lowest shooting%, he would have been at 50 points. A 40-50 player is a 2nd line center by just about any reasonable definition, and it's a bonus that he's also a great faceoff man and good on the powerplay.

We desperately need guys who can produce like he can. 32 is still the prime of a career (If the end of it), and he's not what anyone would consider a banger. He should have at least 3 productive years left, and because Bozak isn't a particularly coveted piece, he should be available for a reasonable price. He's not at the top of anyone's list, but he should definitely be viewed as an option for the 2nd line in the short term.

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

His stats 5on5 are fine. 30 points, 4th on the leafs in CF and RelCorsi while not being sheltered. He continued his production even when he wasn't with Kessel, but it's not like that matters, because he's likely with Tarasenko if he comes here. With the state of our powerplay, we're not exactly in position to start discounting a player's PP work. This is a clear outlier year in terms of shooting percentage, and he still produced at the average rate for a 2nd liner with 42 points. If he had shot at his career average, he would have been at 21 goals and 54 points. Had he hit his next lowest shooting%, he would have been at 50 points. A 40-50 player is a 2nd line center by just about any reasonable definition, and it's a bonus that he's also a great faceoff man and good on the powerplay.

We desperately need guys who can produce like he can. 32 is still the prime of a career (If the end of it), and he's not what anyone would consider a banger. He should have at least 3 productive years left, and because Bozak isn't a particularly coveted piece, he should be available for a reasonable price. He's not at the top of anyone's list, but he should definitely be viewed as an option for the 2nd line in the short term.

He can't carry a line, but as you say he would likely work well with Tank. Key to me is contract terms. 2 years $10mm I can live with Bozak as 2/3 center. Concern is going longer or richer.

 

[Itsnotatrap]

I simply can’t see Perron: Round 3 happening given the Blues ended it early the first 2 times. I’d be ok if it did, but hard to see how it could.

 

[Brian39]

He's 32 now & is only going to get worse . His stats were padded for years playing with 2 elite wingers in Kessel & JVR . Like i said earlier he was simply woeful at even strength & his stats were terrible at 5v5 , i would provide these but i'm sure you already know these as you seem like a stats guy , this was his worse career year by far & luck as your implying ( shooting percentage ) had nothing to do with this .
That's the problem with only looking at stats you can show them conveniently to back up your point whilst leaving out the far more important stats .
The eye test also tells how bad he's been , he has been a defensive black hole despite getting favourable match ups + ask any maple leaf fan who's watched 82 games ( i've seen about 15/ 20) & they'd be happy to let you know how terrible his play is.
In closing i don't mean to be rude or ridicule your point of view but i unreservedly disagree with you . His best years are behind him & his good years were highly influenced by Mr Kessel & Mr JVR .
Free agency is a GM'S death knell & i'm sorry but Bozak is absolutely not a 2nd line centre in any way ,shape or form .

If you're going to have such a condescending/dismissive tone and state things as facts without actually posting support, you should really look at the stats first. His possession numbers are pretty damn good (53.3 CF% and a 4.5 CF% Rel), his even strength production was right on par with his overall production (78th among listed centers in 5 on 5 production vs 74th in overall production). Looking at the number of guys playing wing but listed as a center above him on the list, I'd wager that his production in a career-worst season were right on the low end of 2C. I think it is a largely dumb stat, but he was a +6 player, which was good for 4th among forwards on his own team. I can't find any stats that support your 'woeful at even strength claim' but I'd be happy to look at anything you posted since you're criticizing people for cherry picking stats.

I also watched about a dozen or so Leafs games this year and we'll just have to agree to disagree on the eye test of him being a defensive black hole. He was nothing special in the games I watched, but he was far from a liability. I have to say that this is the first time I've seen anyone describe JVR as a player anywhere near as influential to his linemates as Phil Kessel. Using your logic, center Tarasenko would be a massive step up from JVR and should see him rebound to a 55 point guy, right?

I don't see how you can possibly say that Jarnkrok is hands down better when his career high production matches Bozak's worst season in 5 years (a year he played just 57 games) and his possession numbers have been bad despite playing for a very good possession team for the last 3 years. I'm also not sure what he has to do with the conversation as the Preds are absolutely not trading him unless someone vastly overpays.

I don't love Bozak. He should be a backup plan and/or a target if you can sign him to a reasonable deal after a down year. But he is absolutely an adequate or low end 2C. He's immediately be the 2nd best center on our roster and is worth a shorter term deal if your top targets don't materialize.