Blues Discussion Thread 2018-2019

[MissouriMook]

I'm not going to get into the pros and cons of Bozak's numbers, but if he's on the right deal he is easily a guy that can remain useful if Thomas blossoms next season and pushes him down to 3C after one season. Two years at $5M per wouldn't be the end of the world, but if we can move on from Sobotka and replace him with Bozak for about the same $3.5M per over 3 years I'd be fine with that.

 

[mw2noobbuster]

Yeah, I'm fine with Bozak if we can't get anyone else. I don't think he's really a 2C like some have said here but he'd be a good stop-gap for a few years to let Thomas develop and to find another center.

 

[Alklha]

3 years at $3.5m? You sign Bozak to that instantly if he would take it.

The reality is that some GM is probably going to offer him $20m+ on his next deal. Same for Stastny. Plenty of GM's out there with more cap space than they know what to do with this summer.

 

[stl76]

First off, I agree.

With our team as assembled more quality players with speed should be favored over physicality. But, it would also be good to add a guy with net front presence on the PP IMO. Bringing in a guy who brings both would be ideal.

My issue with the need for speed quest is that too often people make it seem like speed will fix everything. I get that you are not saying that and what follows isn’t aimed at you.

We had two very fast players in MPS and Yak. Both were inept at using their speed to their advantage. Thompson also doesn’t use his speed to his advantage enough for his speed to be a big benefit. Adding players that don’t use their speed well is similar to players that can stick handle in a phone booth, but can’t make plays happen. They don’t utilize their biggest assets and in turn the team sees promise of something more but never gets it.

If we are talking about acquiring players that use their speed well, I point to two Blues on opposite ends of the talent spectrum as references. Fabbri and Upshall created a lot of positives for the Blues with how they used their speed (Upshall to a lesser extent, obviously). You documented a lot of ways that speed brings value in your post and they both brought those elements to varying degrees, so I won’t rehash those.

Both players have traits other than speed that make them valuable. Their speed is icing on the cake to me. I guess the long winded point is that speed isn’t the first thing we should look for in a player nor is it the second thing. You know this, as you said as much in your post. Others either don’t see it that way or don’t communicate that way.

If we can find a player with IQ, work ethic and good skill with some speed to top it off, then that’s the player I want. Now the challenging part is finding that player.

Keep an eye on Erik Foley. I really think he has the potential to bring a lot of the things you're listing here to the roster, and sooner than later!

 

[Weiss1604]

If you're going to have such a condescending/dismissive tone

I guess you missed the bit where i said " i don't mean to be rude or ridicule your point of view " Brian . I find that extremely insulting to be honest & i certainly didn't mean to be condescending as i find that a disgusting attitude to have . Maybe my queen's English is different to your American English , just as British humour is different to American humour & so on & so on. We speak the same language but it really is very different .
With regards to the JVR + Kessel comment i grouped them as one but i definitely don't see them as similar , i obviously didn't explain that properly as i don't even rate him that highly but what do i know i'm a professional rugby coach not a hockey coach or scout or whatever.
I'll put my hand up & say i was wrong with regards to Bozak's stats , so i apologize to everyone for that . Yes we will have to disagree on Bozak , he wouldn't be terrible on a 1 or 2 year deal for 3.5/4 million per year but he's going to get more than that .
I actually find your post a tad condescending towards me but then maybe that was your intention to teach me a lesson as such . My reply was not even to you it was to Thallis , so Thallis i apologize to you if you felt i was condescending .
This will be my last post hear as clearly i'm not welcome from some regulars & it's always hard to break a click .
Hockey is not my first sport but i fell in love with it & the blues whilst working in Missouri 20 years ago & will continue to be obsessed with it , i found the conversation here intriguing & have been reading your guys comments for over 5 years . I finally plucked up the courage to try & converse here this year as i had a lot of free time on my hands as i was recovering from a broken spine & was kind of always weary of commenting as i was conscious that my expertise was in Rugby a game i have played & coached professionally for over 25 years .
It's a crying shame that you don't make it easy or accept newcomers openly here & i've seen some posters complain that it's not like the old days etc & nobody has really been welcoming to be honest .
Anyway I wish everyone well & hopefully the Blues can finally get to the promised land sooner rather than later .

 

[David Dennison]

People complain about the Steen and Bouwmeester deals but then want to sign 32 y.o. Bozak to a 3 year deal? Blues need to add higher end talent, shouldnt use up finite cap space on another declining two-way type (Sobotka, Berglund).

 

[Dbrownss]

What would it take to get Parayko to train with Chara

 

[mw2noobbuster]

People complain about the Steen and Bouwmeester deals but then want to sign 32 y.o. Bozak to a 3 year deal? Blues need to add higher end talent, shouldnt use up finite cap space on another declining two-way type (Sobotka, Berglund).

Right, but if we can't find higher end talent, we're gonna need a stop-gap center. Are you comfortable with Thomas being the 2C? We can't be that happy with Brodziak being the 2C player again.

 

[mw2noobbuster]

What would it take to get Parayko to train with Chara

I can't believe the only thing that's holding Parayko back from being great is that he's too nice.

 

[Stealth JD]

Welcome @Weiss1604. A year overdue, but better late than never.

If you’ve been following this forum for five years you’ll know not to take anyone as serious as they take themselves. Most people including myself should probably just be put on ignore, but all opinions are welcome in my book and the differences in opinion are what make this board enjoyable.

 

[The Grouch]

I can't believe the only thing that's holding Parayko back from being great is that he's too nice.

Doug Armstrong should give Colton Parayko a puppy. Then right before next season begins, Armstrong will take the puppy away.

Parayko will transform from this......

Into this......

Problem solved!

 

[simon IC]

I guess you missed the bit where i said " i don't mean to be rude or ridicule your point of view " Brian . I find that extremely insulting to be honest & i certainly didn't mean to be condescending as i find that a disgusting attitude to have . Maybe my queen's English is different to your American English , just as British humour is different to American humour & so on & so on. We speak the same language but it really is very different .
With regards to the JVR + Kessel comment i grouped them as one but i definitely don't see them as similar , i obviously didn't explain that properly as i don't even rate him that highly but what do i know i'm a professional rugby coach not a hockey coach or scout or whatever.
I'll put my hand up & say i was wrong with regards to Bozak's stats , so i apologize to everyone for that . Yes we will have to disagree on Bozak , he wouldn't be terrible on a 1 or 2 year deal for 3.5/4 million per year but he's going to get more than that .
I actually find your post a tad condescending towards me but then maybe that was your intention to teach me a lesson as such . My reply was not even to you it was to Thallis , so Thallis i apologize to you if you felt i was condescending .
This will be my last post hear as clearly i'm not welcome from some regulars & it's always hard to break a click .
Hockey is not my first sport but i fell in love with it & the blues whilst working in Missouri 20 years ago & will continue to be obsessed with it , i found the conversation here intriguing & have been reading your guys comments for over 5 years . I finally plucked up the courage to try & converse here this year as i had a lot of free time on my hands as i was recovering from a broken spine & was kind of always weary of commenting as i was conscious that my expertise was in Rugby a game i have played & coached professionally for over 25 years .
It's a crying shame that you don't make it easy or accept newcomers openly here & i've seen some posters complain that it's not like the old days etc & nobody has really been welcoming to be honest .
Anyway I wish everyone well & hopefully the Blues can finally get to the promised land sooner rather than later .

I really hope you reconsider your decision to stop posting here. I, for one, find your posts insightful and informative. I regret that you had a bad experience in participating in the discourse here. We are all a tad touchy here after missing the playoffs for the first time in many years, especially as it occurred on the last game of the season! I understand that this is no excuse for condescending, insulting, or otherwise abusive behavior, but members of a collectively disappointed fan base often come across as harsher than they intended. In particular, I value your international perspective. I am a Brit myself, currently living in Canada. Robb K is Canadian, living in The Netherlands. We have Ranksu from Finland, Reality Czech from, (you guessed it!), and I believe one of our Mods, Alklha, hails from Scotland. I really value the different perspectives of our international contributors, and this certainly includes yourself. The interaction of these perspectives with those of the American majority here, (most of course from St. Louis), often leads to a lively, informative and entertaining discussion. We do not always agree, and sometimes the discussion gets, um, a little lively. We all need to be reminded, from time to time, to be a bit more respectful in our discussions. I hope to see you on this board again soon!

 

[Dbrownss]

I can't believe the only thing that's holding Parayko back from being great is that he's too nice.

He doesn't even have to be "mean". He just needs to be more physically imposing. He's too focused on just stick checks

 

[simon IC]

He doesn't even have to be "mean". He just needs to be more physically imposing. He's too focused on just stick checks

I agree, but it's not just him. I am seriously wondering if this is a coaching issue, and if it is, it has to stop! It seems like Bortuzzo and Sosh are the only Blues who separate opposing players from the puck with their bodies. There is way too much emphasis on stick checks!

 

[mw2noobbuster]

He doesn't even have to be "mean". He just needs to be more physically imposing. He's too focused on just stick checks

Exactly. A 6'6, 230 pound man not pushing and harassing a 5'11, 200 pound man out of the crease. Just makes you shake your head, man.

 

[mw2noobbuster]

I agree, but it's not just him. I am seriously wondering if this is a coaching issue, and if it is, it has to stop! It seems like Bortuzzo and Sosh are the only Blues who separate opposing players from the puck with their bodies. There is way too much emphasis on stick checks!

Have a feeling about this, too. I remember Pietrangelo always used to clear the crease in juniors but now he never does it despite his size.

 

[shpongle falls]

Woah didn't realize your British simon in canada, love me some Brits haha! Also love that we have board members from all over the world posting here, it's one of my favorite aspects of hfboards.

 

[Dbrownss]

I agree, but it's not just him. I am seriously wondering if this is a coaching issue, and if it is, it has to stop! It seems like Bortuzzo and Sosh are the only Blues who separate opposing players from the puck with their bodies. There is way too much emphasis on stick checks!

It is a Yeo thing from what I remember about the Wild with Yeo. They had a different type of defense though

 

[Thallis]

People complain about the Steen and Bouwmeester deals but then want to sign 32 y.o. Bozak to a 3 year deal? Blues need to add higher end talent, shouldnt use up finite cap space on another declining two-way type (Sobotka, Berglund).

Bozak would be cheaper than both Steen and Bouw, and that 3 year deal would run out before both of theirs. Bozak is aging, but he still has plenty left in the tank, can contribute better offensively than internal options, and fits the team pretty well. On top of that, an internal replacement is being groomed, so he'd be a stopgap with the option of falling down a line should/when Thomas is ready to replace him.

Obviously, he's behind other options like Tavares, O'Reilly, Johnson, and others, but he's a decent backup option if on the right deal. FWIW I'd go up to 3 years $15 Million or 4 years $18

 

[MortiestOfMortys]

It is a Yeo thing from what I remember about the Wild with Yeo. They had a different type of defense though

Now hold on just a second.

Parayko has never been super physical, not once since he got here have I seen him lay the boom on someone. I remember very clearly knowing that that wasn’t going to be part of his game when I watched him in Traverse City.

Yeo’s system in Minny was built around the fact that they had a small, speedy, skilled d-corps with good sticks. That’s the “new NHL,” it’s not so much about hitting guys as it is about nifty stick work. When I watch Nashville and Vegas, that’s what sticks out to me, especially through the neutral zone. What you might also notice is that that focus doesn’t keep either of those teams from throwing huge hits around too. It isn’t mutually exclusive, necessarily.

Hitchcock had us playing a very positional system, where we would essentially play zone until the puck got into an area where we could trap it along the wall, get it there in a board battle, or just clobber the guy and take the puck there. Remember when he tried to change the system last year and the huge learning curve we endured? That was awful. But it was also probably necessary.

The NHL is too agile now to reliably check guys off the puck with big hits. When you wind up they’ll just go right around you. Guys like Barkov are showing that quality stickwork is more valuable and gets the puck back more reliably. That doesn’t mean you shouldn’t be hitting at all (again, CC Vegas and Nashville), but trap-hit-retrieve just isn’t effective anymore as a defensive strategy.

But because all of these guys were raised in the Hitch system, good stickwork has never been their focus. Which is why we’re bringing in guys like Soshkinov and Foley and Dunn now: they’re real good at that stuff. So where does Parayko fit in there? He used to be that player, and I think he still can be, and if Sydor and Yeo are giving him the green light to focus on that... idk. He’s still got room to grow and develop. Hopefully he learns how (and when) to do both effectively. But I don’t think “Yeo’s system” is really to blame for that. Whether these are just growing pains or what, idk yet, but I also don’t think that Yeo is to blame for the lack of physicality from Parayko this year either.

 

[Majorityof1]

Now hold on just a second.

Parayko has never been super physical, not once since he got here have I seen him lay the boom on someone. I remember very clearly knowing that that wasn’t going to be part of his game when I watched him in Traverse City.

Yeo’s system in Minny was built around the fact that they had a small, speedy, skilled d-corps with good sticks. That’s the “new NHL,” it’s not so much about hitting guys as it is about nifty stick work. When I watch Nashville and Vegas, that’s what sticks out to me, especially through the neutral zone. What you might also notice is that that focus doesn’t keep either of those teams from throwing huge hits around too. It isn’t mutually exclusive, necessarily.

Hitchcock had us playing a very positional system, where we would essentially play zone until the puck got into an area where we could trap it along the wall, get it there in a board battle, or just clobber the guy and take the puck there. Remember when he tried to change the system last year and the huge learning curve we endured? That was awful. But it was also probably necessary.

The NHL is too agile now to reliably check guys off the puck with big hits. When you wind up they’ll just go right around you. Guys like Barkov are showing that quality stickwork is more valuable and gets the puck back more reliably. That doesn’t mean you shouldn’t be hitting at all (again, CC Vegas and Nashville), but trap-hit-retrieve just isn’t effective anymore as a defensive strategy.

But because all of these guys were raised in the Hitch system, good stickwork has never been their focus. Which is why we’re bringing in guys like Soshkinov and Foley and Dunn now: they’re real good at that stuff. So where does Parayko fit in there? He used to be that player, and I think he still can be, and if Sydor and Yeo are giving him the green light to focus on that... idk. He’s still got room to grow and develop. Hopefully he learns how (and when) to do both effectively. But I don’t think “Yeo’s system” is really to blame for that. Whether these are just growing pains or what, idk yet, but I also don’t think that Yeo is to blame for the lack of physicality from Parayko this year either.

Its not all that recent. Lidstrom won the Norris over a decade ago in 2006-7 and had 24 hits that year. He won it a bunch more times and never really hit. His stick was amazing though. Hit numbers on the site I used are spotty, and some years don't have them. But I didn't see him hit more than 65 times in a Norris season. Parayko had 120 hits this year. With Parayko's reach, he can be amazing using his stick. He just needs to hit at the right time, like when they are down low and receiving the puck.

 

[Dbrownss]

Now hold on just a second.

Parayko has never been super physical, not once since he got here have I seen him lay the boom on someone. I remember very clearly knowing that that wasn’t going to be part of his game when I watched him in Traverse City.

Yeo’s system in Minny was built around the fact that they had a small, speedy, skilled d-corps with good sticks. That’s the “new NHL,” it’s not so much about hitting guys as it is about nifty stick work. When I watch Nashville and Vegas, that’s what sticks out to me, especially through the neutral zone. What you might also notice is that that focus doesn’t keep either of those teams from throwing huge hits around too. It isn’t mutually exclusive, necessarily.

Hitchcock had us playing a very positional system, where we would essentially play zone until the puck got into an area where we could trap it along the wall, get it there in a board battle, or just clobber the guy and take the puck there. Remember when he tried to change the system last year and the huge learning curve we endured? That was awful. But it was also probably necessary.

The NHL is too agile now to reliably check guys off the puck with big hits. When you wind up they’ll just go right around you. Guys like Barkov are showing that quality stickwork is more valuable and gets the puck back more reliably. That doesn’t mean you shouldn’t be hitting at all (again, CC Vegas and Nashville), but trap-hit-retrieve just isn’t effective anymore as a defensive strategy.

But because all of these guys were raised in the Hitch system, good stickwork has never been their focus. Which is why we’re bringing in guys like Soshkinov and Foley and Dunn now: they’re real good at that stuff. So where does Parayko fit in there? He used to be that player, and I think he still can be, and if Sydor and Yeo are giving him the green light to focus on that... idk. He’s still got room to grow and develop. Hopefully he learns how (and when) to do both effectively. But I don’t think “Yeo’s system” is really to blame for that. Whether these are just growing pains or what, idk yet, but I also don’t think that Yeo is to blame for the lack of physicality from Parayko this year either.

I dont think your on the same page as I am. I'm not trying to talk about lining someone up for a monster check, you can physically separate a player from the puck without planting them on their ass. That is a very effective tactics for board battles.

The defensive system change your talking about has nothing to do with hitting. It man on man coverage vs zone coverage.

As for Parayko never laying someone out, ask Kadri about that

 

[execwrite1]

While very much enjoying this year's playoffs, I can't help but conclude that the Blues are a Cup contender next year if things fall the right way. (let the attacks begin).

We have five solid forwards and five solid d-men. The goaltending can potentially be outstanding.

There is a large group of young prospects who can fill out the forward lines. One big hole to fill is a partner for Pietrangelo. Lacking a free agent signing there, if Bouwmeester and Gunnarson could split the role and each stay healthy for 50 games, that might be the answer.

Very much looking forward to next season.

 

[Brian39]

I guess you missed the bit where i said " i don't mean to be rude or ridicule your point of view " Brian . I find that extremely insulting to be honest & i certainly didn't mean to be condescending as i find that a disgusting attitude to have . Maybe my queen's English is different to your American English , just as British humour is different to American humour & so on & so on. We speak the same language but it really is very different .
With regards to the JVR + Kessel comment i grouped them as one but i definitely don't see them as similar , i obviously didn't explain that properly as i don't even rate him that highly but what do i know i'm a professional rugby coach not a hockey coach or scout or whatever.
I'll put my hand up & say i was wrong with regards to Bozak's stats , so i apologize to everyone for that . Yes we will have to disagree on Bozak , he wouldn't be terrible on a 1 or 2 year deal for 3.5/4 million per year but he's going to get more than that .
I actually find your post a tad condescending towards me but then maybe that was your intention to teach me a lesson as such . My reply was not even to you it was to Thallis , so Thallis i apologize to you if you felt i was condescending .
This will be my last post hear as clearly i'm not welcome from some regulars & it's always hard to break a click .
Hockey is not my first sport but i fell in love with it & the blues whilst working in Missouri 20 years ago & will continue to be obsessed with it , i found the conversation here intriguing & have been reading your guys comments for over 5 years . I finally plucked up the courage to try & converse here this year as i had a lot of free time on my hands as i was recovering from a broken spine & was kind of always weary of commenting as i was conscious that my expertise was in Rugby a game i have played & coached professionally for over 25 years .
It's a crying shame that you don't make it easy or accept newcomers openly here & i've seen some posters complain that it's not like the old days etc & nobody has really been welcoming to be honest .
Anyway I wish everyone well & hopefully the Blues can finally get to the promised land sooner rather than later .

My post was condescending as I was trying to mirror your tone (more accurately, my interpretation of your tone). Based on this post, I think it is clear that I misinterpreted your tone and maybe some of that is things getting lost in the cultural translation. I didn't realize you were British and your use of "mate" in a couple posts sounded condescending to me as I read it. With the context of your location, obviously I know now that you weren't using it in a condescending manner.

So I apologize for jumping down your throat. That was completely my mistake and I hope you don't leave the forum because of it.

 

[The Note]

One big hole to fill is a partner for Pietrangelo.

Edmundson? I’d be shocked if the pairs weren’t:
Ed-Petro
Dunn-Parayko
Bouwmeester-Schmaltz/Bortz

That’s a very good group of defenseman. The situation at forward is much more concerning to me. Depending on the moves that are made this offseason at the draft and in FA, I could see the Blues being right back in the top handful of “contenders.” Armstrong certainly has his work cut out for him though.