Blues 2024 Off-Season Trade Proposals Thread

[WeWentBlues]

I think you would have to look at:

Kuemper traded for Connor Timmins a 1st and a 3rd
F Anderson traded for a 1st and 2nd
Lehner for the 21st overall pick and David Legwand
Schneider for the 9th overall pick
Martin Jones traded for a 1st and Sean Kuraly
Varlamov for a 1st (11th Overall) and a 2nd
Bobrovsky for a 2nd, 4th and 4th
Campbell for a 2nd, 3rd and T Moore
Elliott for a 2nd and 3rd

But the one that sticks out for any Blues fan
Ryan Miller and Steve Ott for Halak, Stewart, Carrier, a 1st and 3rd.

The distinction between Binnington and these other trades is:
1) Binnington has a Stanley Cup on his resume
2) Binnington is under contract for 3 seasons at a cap hit somewhere between 3.4% and 6.8% of the 2024-2025 cap. At 6.8% of the cap, he is in the top 10 of highest AAVs for goalies. With retention, Binnington could be one of the most cap friendly deals in the league. Most of the notable trades you posted above were for a pending UFA (Keumper, Miller) or an unsigned RFA (Varlamov, Jones, Andersen). Lehner and Schneider had 2 years remaining on their deals when traded. Lehner somewhat unproven at the time and Legwand a big piece to that deal and Schneider more established. Schneider accounted for 6.67% of the cap when traded.

Interesting that NJD could be a potential landing spot for Binnington with the Brodeur connection and looking to upgrade in net. They hold the 10th pick. Will history repeat itself?

 

[Mike Liut]

I’d love to trade for Necas. Not sure what I’d offer.

 

[Spektre]

I’d love to trade for Necas. Not sure what I’d offer.

A Buchnevich willing to sign with Carolina

 

[LogosBlue]

A Buchnevich willing to sign with Carolina

We lose that deal if it's one for one

 

[bleedblue1223]

We lose that deal if it's one for one

Nah, Necas' age and extension would be a better fit than Buch's.

 

[Spektre]

Nah, Necas' age and extension would be a better fit than Buch's.

This

 

[BlueDream]

I’m honestly not sure how I feel about a trade for Necas. I have some interest, because he’s a 25 year old with legitimate skill.

But even though he’s younger than Buch, is he what we need? He’s not very good defensively. He would replace Buch’s offense yes, but could he turn into a legit 2C for us or will he remain more of a winger? If it’s the latter, it really wouldn’t be that exciting of an acquisition if we just traded Buchnevich and didn’t land a center nor a defenseman. We’d just remain in the same spot we’re currently in.

That said, I understand that Necas might be the best available player that we could get. So I guess I’m just neutral about it all.

 

[bleedblue1223]

I’m honestly not sure how I feel about a trade for Necas. I have some interest, because he’s a 25 year old with legitimate skill.

But even though he’s younger than Buch, is he what we need? He’s not very good defensively. He would replace Buch’s offense yes, but could he turn into a legit 2C for us or will he remain more of a winger? If it’s the latter, it really wouldn’t be that exciting of an acquisition if we just traded Buchnevich and didn’t land a center nor a defenseman. We’d just remain in the same spot we’re currently in.

That said, I understand that Necas might be the best available player that we could get. So I guess I’m just neutral about it all.

He'd essentially be a lesser version of Kyrou, so to me it only makes sense in a scenario where Kyrou is moved for a young defenseman and Necas is essentially Kyrou's replacement.

I'm fine not getting him, but also happy to get more talent up front.

 

[LogosBlue]

Nah, Necas' age and extension would be a better fit than Buch's.

So, i get the idea that he is 4 years younger and he possibly has more upside over the next few years. I'm guessing Necas could slide into the 2C position which would be miles better than Hayes or Schenn. Does this just create a void on 1LW? Are we betting on Neighbors to step into that role? Do we need to look to FA to fill that void?

If this means we are moving Kyrou for a legit top defenseman, I could be convinced, but they are very similar players. Necas defensive game is better than Kyrou's. Now we are talking about lots of moving parts over the off season and the real need to offload a current defenseman under contract and no move. Not sure DA could pull this off.

 

[ArenaRat]

So, i get the idea that he is 4 years younger and he possibly has more upside over the next few years. I'm guessing Necas could slide into the 2C position which would be miles better than Hayes or Schenn. Does this just create a void on 1LW? Are we betting on Neighbors to step into that role? Do we need to look to FA to fill that void?

If this means we are moving Kyrou for a legit top defenseman, I could be convinced, but they are very similar players. Necas defensive game is better than Kyrou's. Now we are talking about lots of moving parts over the off season and the real need to offload a current defenseman under contract and no move. Not sure DA could pull this off.

Necas' fit and role in Carolina has never really been settled, for whatever reasons. Feels like the timing is good to take a shot on him -- a classic change-of-scenery situation.

 

[bleedblue1223]

So, i get the idea that he is 4 years younger and he possibly has more upside over the next few years. I'm guessing Necas could slide into the 2C position which would be miles better than Hayes or Schenn. Does this just create a void on 1LW? Are we betting on Neighbors to step into that role? Do we need to look to FA to fill that void?

If this means we are moving Kyrou for a legit top defenseman, I could be convinced, but they are very similar players. Necas defensive game is better than Kyrou's. Now we are talking about lots of moving parts over the off season and the real need to offload a current defenseman under contract and no move. Not sure DA could pull this off.

I disagree with the bolded points. Necas could slide to center, it could be a situation like Schenn, but even Schenn still played a decent amount of center in Philly, Necas hasn't played much center at the NHL level, and Carolina is a team that has struggled to find a #2 center, so they've had a need for that spot. If we are acquiring Necas, I'd view him as a RW, and would view him succeeding at center as a pleasant surprise. Necas is also a worse overall version compared to Kyrou, offensively and defensively, Necas just has the luxury of being on a really good team and able to be sheltered.

Those that don't want to acquire Necas when I originally brought him up months ago, have plenty of valid reasons for not wanting to touch him, and depending on whatever his extension is, I wouldn't want to touch him either.

 

[WeWentBlues]

Necas' fit and role in Carolina has never really been settled, for whatever reasons. Feels like the timing is good to take a shot on him -- a classic change-of-scenery situation.

Do we want to pay the asset price to acquire him via trade and then sign him to an 8M+ AAV that he is looking for? Not sure that it makes sense.

 

[bleedblue1223]

I wouldn't mind trying to work a deal with Philly again if Frost and Farabee are available.

 

[WeWentBlues]

I wouldn't mind trying to work a deal with Philly again if Frost and Farabee are available.

The old reverse Schenn trade. Sly devil, you

 

[TurgPavs]

The distinction between Binnington and these other trades is:
1) Binnington has a Stanley Cup on his resume
2) Binnington is under contract for 3 seasons at a cap hit somewhere between 3.4% and 6.8% of the 2024-2025 cap. At 6.8% of the cap, he is in the top 10 of highest AAVs for goalies. With retention, Binnington could be one of the most cap friendly deals in the league. Most of the notable trades you posted above were for a pending UFA (Keumper, Miller) or an unsigned RFA (Varlamov, Jones, Andersen). Lehner and Schneider had 2 years remaining on their deals when traded. Lehner somewhat unproven at the time and Legwand a big piece to that deal and Schneider more established. Schneider accounted for 6.67% of the cap when traded.

Interesting that NJD could be a potential landing spot for Binnington with the Brodeur connection and looking to upgrade in net. They hold the 10th pick. Will history repeat itself?

The issue with trading Binnington, is now you have created a massive hole on your roster. While Hofer has the potential, his inconsistent play, and collapse vs nonplayoff teams, is a reflection that he needs more time in a back up role.
Thus you will need to find a goalie in UFA to fill the hole, and the UFA market is pretty ugly for goalies this off season.

Goalie is the one position that the Blues have covered for the foreseeable future, and moving Binny seems like it will become another problem area.

It would have to be a pretty massive return for Army to move him.

 

[bleedblue1223]

The old reverse Schenn trade. Sly devil, you

Would make for a fun trade tree.

 

[bleedblue1223]

The issue with trading Binnington, is now you have created a massive hole on your roster. While Hofer has the potential, his inconsistent play, and collapse vs nonplayoff teams, is a reflection that he needs more time in a back up role.
Thus you will need to find a goalie in UFA to fill the hole, and the UFA market is pretty ugly for goalies this off season.

Goalie is the one position that the Blues have covered for the foreseeable future, and moving Binny seems like it will become another problem area.

It would have to be a pretty massive return for Army to move him.

Was Hofer that inconsistent? He never had a month with a sv% below 90.2%, and his quality start % was just behind Binnington's. Trading Binnington would certainly create a hole, and Hofer risk to starter would come with risk, but I think Hofer is more ready than you are implying.

 

[Brian39]

I think you would have to look at:

Kuemper traded for Connor Timmins a 1st and a 3rd
F Anderson traded for a 1st and 2nd
Lehner for the 21st overall pick and David Legwand
Schneider for the 9th overall pick
Martin Jones traded for a 1st and Sean Kuraly
Varlamov for a 1st (11th Overall) and a 2nd
Bobrovsky for a 2nd, 4th and 4th
Campbell for a 2nd, 3rd and T Moore
Elliott for a 2nd and 3rd

But the one that sticks out for any Blues fan
Ryan Miller and Steve Ott for Halak, Stewart, Carrier, a 1st and 3rd.

I think those are the best comps, but I think the Blues would (correctly) argue that none of them are very close comps.

Not a single one of those guys had taken their team to the Final prior to being traded.

Outside of the bolded Miller trade, none of those guys had multiple 50+ start seasons prior to being traded. There is tons of talent on that list and at the time of the trades a lot of them were really good bets to be starters, but none of them had entrenched themselves as year-to-year starters at the time of the trade.

Kuemper had injury issues and was 3 years removed from a starting more than half his team's games. His numbers dipped the year before the trade.

Freddie had a great 53 start sophomore season then tandemed with Gibson the next year (before being traded).

Bob had a great 50+ start rookie year and was then relegated to the backup behind Bryz the following season before being traded. His numbers suffered in year 2.

Elliott was 5 years removed from his lone 50+ start season (split between 2 NHL teams).

The rest had never had a single season as a starter, much less multiple. Again, tons of talent in that group. Lots of guys giving every indication that they would become a legit #1. But they hadn't actually proven it.

Binner has three 50+ start seasons plus the 56 game COVID season where he played at a 60 start pace. He handled a starter's load for half a season when he took over as a rookie. In his 5 seasons since, he's handled the starter's workload 4 times. 2021/22 was the only year that he lost the net and he capped that season by playing out of his mind in the playoffs for a couple weeks before getting injured. He's had his share of downs and he wasn't great in 2022/23. We can debate 'how good' of a starter he is, but he is objectively more of an established starter than that entire list was at the time they returned those packages (excluding Miller).

He's also under contract for 3 more seasons, while the bulk of that list is comprised of guys who needed a new contract but had teams that wanted to move in a different direction. The lone example of a long-term starter was a pending UFA moved at the trade deadline.

Like I said, you are correct that those are the best comps. But none of them really do much to set the marketplace for an established Cup-winning #1 who has term and is coming off an excellent season. I totally get why other teams would want to stick to those comps, but I also totally get why the Blues would say that none of them accurately compare to the asset we currently hold. That disconnect is why I'd be listening to offers but don't think that a trade is likely. Realistically, I think that the most likely chance of Binner being traded involves him as 1 piece of a multi-piece true blockbuster.

 

[Brian39]

The issue with trading Binnington, is now you have created a massive hole on your roster. While Hofer has the potential, his inconsistent play, and collapse vs nonplayoff teams, is a reflection that he needs more time in a back up role.
Thus you will need to find a goalie in UFA to fill the hole, and the UFA market is pretty ugly for goalies this off season.

Goalie is the one position that the Blues have covered for the foreseeable future, and moving Binny seems like it will become another problem area.

It would have to be a pretty massive return for Army to move him.

I agree that Hofer shouldn't be thrown into a starting role, but I vehemently disagree with your assessment about Hofer's play. Hofer's quality start rate was perfectly fine this season and he only had a single game where he allowed 5+ goals (his first start of the season where he allowed 6 goals on 42 shots against Arizona). He only allowed 4+ goals in 6 of his 27 starts (Binner had 20 such games in 55 starts).

Hofer played 13 non-playoff opponents last year. He put up a .900 or better against 9 of the 13. He was .895 in 4 games vs Arizona and .897 in 1 game vs the Pens. He had dreadful numbers in the 4 games he played against San Jose and Columbus, allowing 14 goals in those 4 games despite very limited shots against. I very much disagree that this extremely small sample is accurately described as a collapse against nonplayoff teams or is predictive of his readiness for an expanded role.

I don't want Hofer starting next year, but we aren't a contender in 2024/25 and the primary goal for a Binner replacement if we dealt him would just be to insulate Hofer. I'm not worried about the cost of getting a middling vet to eat 40+ starts on a team with limited short-term aspirations. I totally agree with you about Binner requiring a big return for a deal to make sense, but I do pretty firmly believe that Hofer is the future.

 

[TurgPavs]

I agree that Hofer shouldn't be thrown into a starting role, but I vehemently disagree with your assessment about Hofer's play. Hofer's quality start rate was perfectly fine this season and he only had a single game where he allowed 5+ goals (his first start of the season where he allowed 6 goals on 42 shots against Arizona). He only allowed 4+ goals in 6 of his 27 starts (Binner had 20 such games in 55 starts).

Hofer played 13 non-playoff opponents last year. He put up a .900 or better against 9 of the 13. He was .895 in 4 games vs Arizona and .897 in 1 game vs the Pens. He had dreadful numbers in the 4 games he played against San Jose and Columbus, allowing 14 goals in those 4 games despite very limited shots against. I very much disagree that this extremely small sample is accurately described as a collapse against nonplayoff teams or is predictive of his readiness for an expanded role.

I don't want Hofer starting next year, but we aren't a contender in 2024/25 and the primary goal for a Binner replacement if we dealt him would just be to insulate Hofer. I'm not worried about the cost of getting a middling vet to eat 40+ starts on a team with limited short-term aspirations. I totally agree with you about Binner requiring a big return for a deal to make sense, but I do pretty firmly believe that Hofer is the future.

I seem to remember a very similar discussion, about moving Binny, several years ago, as a different former 4th round pick V Husso was the future.

Husso first 57 games played .912 SV%
Hofer first 38 games played .911 SV%

I understand its a small sample size, however the Blues were 5 points out of the playoffs this season. No possible way can you afford to go 3 straight seasons without playoff revenue.

Not to mention, moving Binnington signals that the Blues are in a straight rebuild mode, and need to sell off other pieces, i.e. Schenn, Buch, Saad, Hayes, Sunny, Faulk, CP, Krug, Leddy, etc.

There is no reason to keep anyone 29-30 years or older on the roster.

 

[shpongle falls]

I hope they never ever trade Binner, I hope he retires here and they win another cup with him and he gets a statue eventually lol.

I do like Hofer a lot though and think the sky is the limit for how good he can be.

 

[Brian39]

I seem to remember a very similar discussion, about moving Binny, several years ago, as a different former 4th round pick V Husso was the future.

Husso first 57 games played .912 SV%
Hofer first 38 games played .911 SV%

Husso put up an .893 in his rookie season at age 25

Hofer put up a .913 in his rookie season at age 23.

Hofer's last AHL season was noticeably better than Husso's last AHL season as well.

Hofer is substantially further along the development path at age 23 than Husso was and had a much smoother entry into the NHL. Husso having a fantastic season at age 26 doesn't do anything to convince me that Hofer will follow Husso's inability to reach his potential.

I don't recall anyone talking about moving Binner following the 2019 Cup win, the 2020 bubble playoffs, or the 2020/21 COVID season where he was noticeably better than Husso. I remember some conversation about it during the 2021/22 season when Husso took Binner's net, but that conversation ended pretty quickly in the playoffs. Then we moved Husso.

Binner is now several years older, the team is now noticeably worse, and the new young goalie is objectively outperforming Husso at comparable stages of their career. I really don't think that they are remotely similar situations.

No possible way can you afford to go 3 straight seasons without playoff revenue.

Based on what?

Binner will make $7.5M this season. Replace him with a $2.5M goalie and you are talking about saving $5M real dollars. I do not believe that teams make more profit than that with 2-3 home playoff dates. I very much disagree that this team has a financial need to make the playoffs. Missing the playoffs next year is very much a potential outcome with or without Binner.

Not to mention, moving Binnington signals that the Blues are in a straight rebuild mode, and need to sell off other pieces, i.e. Schenn, Buch, Saad, Hayes, Sunny, Faulk, CP, Krug, Leddy, etc.

There is no reason to keep anyone 29-30 years or older on the roster.

Hard disagree.

I think it signals that 2024/25 is a non-contention year with a focus toward the future, but I think you can very much still have plans to contend in 2025/26 and beyond. Which is pretty much exactly the position I believe we are in unless/until there are further moves to change that.

I'm not advocating for moving Binner for pure futures or anything less than a 'can't say no' offer. But I firmly disagree with the notion that moving him tanks the team for years.

 

[Xerloris]

I think you would have to look at:

Kuemper traded for Connor Timmins a 1st and a 3rd
F Anderson traded for a 1st and 2nd
Lehner for the 21st overall pick and David Legwand
Schneider for the 9th overall pick
Martin Jones traded for a 1st and Sean Kuraly
Varlamov for a 1st (11th Overall) and a 2nd
Bobrovsky for a 2nd, 4th and 4th
Campbell for a 2nd, 3rd and T Moore
Elliott for a 2nd and 3rd

But the one that sticks out for any Blues fan
Ryan Miller and Steve Ott for Halak, Stewart, Carrier, a 1st and 3rd.

Ya, nothing listed here moves the needle for Binington.

 

[CaliforniaBlues310]

Personally, I keep Binner here until at least the TDL next March. Let him get the wins record, and see where Hofer and Zherenko/Ellis are at 9 months from now.

If we aren’t in a playoff spot, and Hofer looks like he can take over for the rest of the season, then get some good assets for him.

 

[WeWentBlues]

I suppose a Joel Hofer trade is also an avenue to explore. Vejmelka didn't exactly have the best season so perhaps Bill Armstrong would be interested to acquire Hofer, given the new ownership's intent to compete and the abundance of draft capital they have accumulated.