Prospect Info: Blues 2024-2025 Prospect Thread

[Bye Bye Blueston]

They were pretty quickly during their d+1. For example, Pronman has Thomas listed in his "Elite NHL prospect" tier and Kyrou in the "High End NHL player" which would roughly translate to NHL all-star and top of the lineup player respectively. Development happens, but I think Blues fans are seeing what they want to see with our draft picks. I don't think top pair has really ever been considered realistic for Lindstein.

This is where we disagree. Was top pair realistic for Josi? For Slavin? For Toews? I look at Lindstein and see a player who processes game at high level but doesn’t take big risks. He is responsible defensively. So he can appear to be vanilla at times. But you watch him closer and he makes the kind of passes that most guys don’t. Smart, clever plays that suggest more offensive upside than most think. He needs to get stronger, but you can say that about most 19yo kids.

I get that my opinion on him isn’t the consensus. I may well be wrong. He may well fall short of what I think he can potentially be, but Lindstein possesses many traits that could make him a top pair guy in time. Just like Thomas did.

 

[stl76]

I would be surprised if Lindstein does not end up a top pairing dman.

 

[Majorityof1]

This is where we disagree. Was top pair realistic for Josi? For Slavin? For Toews? I look at Lindstein and see a player who processes game at high level but doesn’t take big risks. He is responsible defensively. So he can appear to be vanilla at times. But you watch him closer and he makes the kind of passes that most guys don’t. Smart, clever plays that suggest more offensive upside than most think. He needs to get stronger, but you can say that about most 19yo kids.

I get that my opinion on him isn’t the consensus. I may well be wrong. He may well fall short of what I think he can potentially be, but Lindstein possesses many traits that could make him a top pair guy in time. Just like Thomas did.

The comparisons to Josi, Slavin and Toews are meaningless. You could make that argument about any prpspect. "We don't know <insert prospect name> won't be a bona fide superstar, look at <insert name of any successful player drafted in the same round>." There are examples in every round of star players. But there are 100s of more examples of busts or middle of the road players. Just because lightening struck thos spot once, diesn't mean I am betting my house it will so again.

That's not to say Lindstein can't become a star. It just means other players doing so is irrelevant. He has to do so. And for all the great skills he has, there are still limiting factors.

 

[bleedblue1223]

I think it's perfectly reasonable to project a Nick Leddy type career for Lindstein. I think he has the upside of playing 20+ minutes for many years, and being solid enough offensively to have some good scoring years and on the PP. That would be top pair, even if he's not developing into some elite player.

 

[STL fan in MN]

I think it's perfectly reasonable to project a Nick Leddy type career for Lindstein. I think he has the upside of playing 20+ minutes for many years, and being solid enough offensively to have some good scoring years and on the PP. That would be top pair, even if he's not developing into some elite player.

That’s probably fair.

To me, what really separates the top players from the rest usually isn’t raw physical skills. It’s hockey sense. I’m having a hard time thinking of any elite to all-star level players who aren’t at least slightly better than average in terms of hockey sense.

To me, Lindstein’s best trait by far is his hockey sense. I haven’t seen enough of him at higher levels to say it’s downright elite but that’s why I see it more like Blueston does - he plays a relatively quiet game but his head is always up, he’s calm as a cucumber and he makes many really smart, efficient and nifty plays.

Is he likely to be a top pairing guy? Probably not. But he’s absolutely capable of it. And it’s due to the notably higher than average hockey sense he’s shown so far IMO. If I was to rank our prospect pool on hockey sense alone, Lindstein would be #1 for me and it wouldn’t really be a tough call.

 

[bleedblue1223]

That’s probably fair.

To me, what really separates the top players from the rest usually isn’t raw physical skills. It’s hockey sense. I’m having a hard time thinking of any elite to all-star level players who aren’t at least slightly better than average in terms of hockey sense.

To me, Lindstein’s best trait by far is his hockey sense. I haven’t seen enough of him at higher levels to say it’s downright elite but that’s why I see it more like Blueston does - he plays a relatively quiet game but his head is always up, he’s calm as a cucumber and he makes many really smart, efficient and nifty plays.

Is he likely to be a top pairing guy? Probably not. But he’s absolutely capable of it. And it’s due to the notably higher than average hockey sense he’s shown so far IMO. If I was to rank our prospect pool on hockey sense alone, Lindstein would be #1 for me and it wouldn’t really be a tough call.

I agree, that was my point with Leddy, who I also view as having high hockey sense. I'm pretty confident that Lindstein will have the ability and smarts to make the correct play way more often than not. As with all prospects, we'll have to wait and see how it translates to the NHL game, and that's why I don't see much point in getting in major debates on these guys. We'll know soon enough, and hopefully he has a big year this season.

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

The comparisons to Josi, Slavin and Toews are meaningless. You could make that argument about any prpspect. "We don't know <insert prospect name> won't be a bona fide superstar, look at <insert name of any successful player drafted in the same round>." There are examples in every round of star players. But there are 100s of more examples of busts or middle of the road players. Just because lightening struck thos spot once, diesn't mean I am betting my house it will so again.

That's not to say Lindstein can't become a star. It just means other players doing so is irrelevant. He has to do so. And for all the great skills he has, there are still limiting factors.

No sh!t. But in your desire to be contrarian you miss the point. As @stlfaninmn explained more clearly, it’s Lindstein’s hockey sense that gives him real chance to exceed the expectations many have of him. It’s why Loof, who may have more physical tools, is likely to top out as bottom pairing guy. Lindstein maybe gets hurt or complacent or never develops enough physically or for any number of reasons fails to reach this potential, but the idea being pushed by many that “we don’t have anyone who could be top pairing guy” is BS. We do.

 

[Celtic Note]

That’s probably fair.

To me, what really separates the top players from the rest usually isn’t raw physical skills. It’s hockey sense. I’m having a hard time thinking of any elite to all-star level players who aren’t at least slightly better than average in terms of hockey sense.

To me, Lindstein’s best trait by far is his hockey sense. I haven’t seen enough of him at higher levels to say it’s downright elite but that’s why I see it more like Blueston does - he plays a relatively quiet game but his head is always up, he’s calm as a cucumber and he makes many really smart, efficient and nifty plays.

Is he likely to be a top pairing guy? Probably not. But he’s absolutely capable of it. And it’s due to the notably higher than average hockey sense he’s shown so far IMO. If I was to rank our prospect pool on hockey sense alone, Lindstein would be #1 for me and it wouldn’t really be a tough call.

The biggest question in all of this is will that hockey sense translate to offense. He shows well defensively and in transition. The offense will be the make or break for me as to whether he is where most project him or something more. This year will be a big one as far as showing what his offensive trend line is going to look like.

 

[Drubilly]

No sh!t. But in your desire to be contrarian you miss the point. As @stlfaninmn explained more clearly, it’s Lindstein’s hockey sense that gives him real chance to exceed the expectations many have of him. It’s why loof, who may have more physical tools, is likely to top out as bottom pairing guy. Lindstein maybe gets hurt or complacent or never develops enough physically or for any number of reasons fails to reach this potential, but the idea being pushed by many that “we don’t have anyone who could be top pairing guy” is BS. We do.

I think he’s our Hampus Lindholm.

 

[Majorityof1]

No sh!t. But in your desire to be contrarian you miss the point. As @stlfaninmn explained more clearly, it’s Lindstein’s hockey sense that gives him real chance to exceed the expectations many have of him. It’s why loof, who may have more physical tools, is likely to top out as bottom pairing guy. Lindstein maybe gets hurt or complacent or never develops enough physically or for any number of reasons fails to reach this potential, but the idea being pushed by many that “we don’t have anyone who could be top pairing guy” is BS. We do.

His defensive sense is good but overstated. He is processing a much slower game right now than th NHL. Which is fine, at that age it's normal. He has a good head start. He still needs to evolve it.

His offensive sense needs more work and a top pair D needs both. I don't see the o-zone offensive IQ to be a true first pair like we need.

I do totally agree he could be first pair. Maybe I'm missing them, but I don't think anyone is saying he can't. Just that other outcomes are at least as likely. He projects as a top 4 who could be top pair and could even be what we all want, a top 10-15 in league D. But he's not a guy that should gave been drafted top 5 OA because he is that safe to be top pair. I think that is what most people think our pool is missing. Guys who'd be top 3-5 in a redraft.

I know you have watched him a lot. Your opinion on him holds weight. You were immideatly happy we drafted him, even befire the WJC breakout. So kudos to you. Sorry I dismissed your other insights.

My comment was meant because I think it muddies the waters to compare him to guys like Fox and Josi. They may have been later bloomers or overlooked early. However, their games and skill sets are very different. You have watch him a lot, but others have not. Saying he can be succesful causeJosi was successful may imply they are similar for reasons other than not being projected as a top pair when drafted.

 

[Thallis]

This is where we disagree. Was top pair realistic for Josi? For Slavin? For Toews? I look at Lindstein and see a player who processes game at high level but doesn’t take big risks. He is responsible defensively. So he can appear to be vanilla at times. But you watch him closer and he makes the kind of passes that most guys don’t. Smart, clever plays that suggest more offensive upside than most think. He needs to get stronger, but you can say that about most 19yo kids.

I get that my opinion on him isn’t the consensus. I may well be wrong. He may well fall short of what I think he can potentially be, but Lindstein possesses many traits that could make him a top pair guy in time. Just like Thomas did.

There are far more players who fall far below draft expectations than exceed them. The majority of this board's viewings of Lindstein have been shaped by his best stretch of games in his career and think that's his norm. As of right now his production does not suggest he's a future top pairing defenseman. He wasn't thought of that before the draft, and his performance in the allsvenskan last season wasn't at the rate that would change those expectations. Thomas was considered an elite talent during his D+1, Lindstein is still considered a potential top 4 guy

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

There are far more players who fall far below draft expectations than exceed them. The majority of this board's viewings of Lindstein have been shaped by his best stretch of games in his career and think that's his norm. As of right now his production does not suggest he's a future top pairing defenseman. He wasn't thought of that before the draft, and his performance in the allsvenskan last season wasn't at the rate that would change those expectations. Thomas was considered an elite talent during his D+1, Lindstein is still considered a potential top 4 guy

He was thought to be potentially top D in his draft class before he was in auto accident that set him back. You want to dismiss WJC where he was top D in tourney as 18 YO, but he was exceptional the year before at U18s too.

As to his play last year, he was regular on top team in league. At 18. That in many ways is far more indicative of upside than how many points he put up there as a defenseman. Obviously there are any number of factors that influence whether any prospect reaches his ceiling. I'm certainly not saying that he will be top pair guy, just that he has key traits that suggest to me (and some others) that his upside is much higher than the majority of folks believe.

 

[Mike Liut]

I think he’s our Hampus Lindholm.

Not that it’s the end all, but I’d feel better if Theo was 6’4 also.

 

[AyeBah]

Sure, everyone would rather have top end talent, but I wouldn't sell our kids short. Were Thomass and Kyrou considered elite prospects? Ignore the hype and draft position and just look at the talent we have. Dvo could be 1st line center and Jiricek and Lindstein both have top pair upside. They may well fall short of that- they would've been top 5 picks if they were seen as no doubt top line talent, but each of them (and Snuggy) absolutely have potential to be difference makers for us. I'm not saying we have best pool in league, but the pessimism by so many on here befuddles me.

and I don't consider any goalie prospect a gamebreaking stud; way too unpredictable. The track record of 1st round goalies is such that I don't value them that much until they show it in NHL. Wally is great goalie prospect, but until he does it I will be suspect.

Yes they were considered top 20 nhl wide prospects and we had like a top 5 ranked prospect pool lmao

 

[STL fan in MN]

There are far more players who fall far below draft expectations than exceed them. The majority of this board's viewings of Lindstein have been shaped by his best stretch of games in his career and think that's his norm. As of right now his production does not suggest he's a future top pairing defenseman. He wasn't thought of that before the draft, and his performance in the allsvenskan last season wasn't at the rate that would change those expectations. Thomas was considered an elite talent during his D+1, Lindstein is still considered a potential top 4 guy

This is where I think people are dead wrong. Go to eliteprospects.com and click on HockeyAllsvenskan. Then toggle to “all-time”, just defensemen and U19 and you’ll see that Lindstein is the 3rd highest scoring 18 year old d-man in that league ever. The only 2 ahead of him are Oliver Ekman-Larsson and Rasmus Andersson. He’s ahead of Mattias Ekholm, Philip Broberg, William Wallinder, Simon Edvinsson and Hampus Lindholm.

Now, the obvious response is that a lot of the elite 18 year olds were in the SHL/Eliteserin, not HA and that would be an extremely legit pushback. But Lindstein was in the Allsvenskan because his SHL team got relegated. A SHL team he played for at age 17…which is pretty unprecedented. And he’s now back in the SHL at age 19. There’s still plenty of quality teenagers that play in HA as seen from the list above.

3rd highest scoring all-time in HA doesn’t mean he’s destined to be a 1st pairing d-man but I think he’s flying a bit under the radar because he played in HA last season and people 1. don’t watch that league and 2. discount that league too much.

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

Yes they were considered top 20 nhl wide prospects and we had like a top ranked prospect pool lmao

They weren't elite prospects when we drafted them. They became so in time. Like Lindstein could. Thanks for missing the point.

 

[ChicagoBlues]

Not that it’s the end all, but I’d feel better if Theo was 6’4 also.

He's only 19 (turns 20 in Jan), so he might add another inch or so in height.

 

[sfvega]

He was thought to be potentially top D in his draft class before he was in auto accident that set him back. You want to dismiss WJC where he was top D in tourney as 18 YO, but he was exceptional the year before at U18s too.

As to his play last year, he was regular on top team in league. At 18. That in many ways is far more indicative of upside than how many points he put up there as a defenseman. Obviously there are any number of factors that influence whether any prospect reaches his ceiling. I'm certainly not saying that he will be top pair guy, just that he has key traits that suggest to me (and some others) that his upside is much higher than the majority of folks believe.

I feel a lot more comfortable about projecting Lindstein as 1st pair potential than Jiricek.

 

[AyeBah]

They weren't elite prospects when we drafted them. They became so in time. Like Lindstein could. Thanks for missing the point.

This whole discussion is about post draft prospect rankings and thats when those thomas and kyrou rankings came out but mkay

 

[BlueMed]

I was surprised to see Dvorsky only slotted in the depth category. I think he does a pretty good job covering the league as a whole, but I can understand why certain fans feel like he is underselling their prospects a bit. For instance, on his Anaheim pyramid, he has Cutter Gauthier and Beckett Sennecke in the depth category too. Those are both type 5 picks in their respective drafts and probably have the skill level to be future core players (at least Anaheim hopes so). His Chicago pyramid includes Frank Nazar and Oliver Moore in the core category, and I wouldn't place either of those players above Dvorsky. Recently, the OHL conducted a coach's poll, and Dvorksy finished 1st in best shot and best stickhandling as well as 2nd in smartest player. At the draft, his player comparison was William Karlsson due to his skating (who just posted 30 goals and 30 assists in 70 games by the way). I also wouldn't be surprised if he ends up better than that.

 

[Snubbed4Vezina]

Vorobyov with a highlight reel goal:

https://x.com/i/web/status/1829164435522617404

A laser from Korotky:

https://x.com/i/web/status/1830605550482239577

 

[Majorityof1]

I feel a lot more comfortable about projecting Lindstein as 1st pair potential than Jiricek.

Lindstein's further along in his development and did not miss a year of development like Jirecek. So, yeah, of course. But Jiricek has physical skills that will make it easier for him. We'll have to wait and see if his IQ progresses. And I think there is room to improve his skating which is already good as well.

Linstein is a safer bet so it's easier to project him to imagine him hitting even above his ceiling. He played more and we got to see him do well. We have seen less of Jiricek, and he is younger, and didn't play in WJC against his peer group. He is less certain. But I think his ceiling is higher because of his raw skills and abilities

 

[bleedblue1223]

I think he does a pretty good job covering the league as a whole, but I can understand why certain fans feel like he is underselling their prospects a bit. For instance, on his Anaheim pyramid, he has Cutter Gauthier and Beckett Sennecke in the depth category too. Those are both type 5 picks in their respective drafts and probably have the skill level to be future core players (at least Anaheim hopes so). His Chicago pyramid includes Frank Nazar and Oliver Moore in the core category, and I wouldn't place either of those players above Dvorsky. Recently, the OHL conducted a coach's poll, and Dvorksy finished 1st in best shot and best stickhandling as well as 2nd in smartest player. At the draft, his player comparison was William Karlsson due to his skating (who just posted 30 goals and 30 assists in 70 games by the way). I also wouldn't be surprised if he ends up better than that.

That's hilarious for Anaheim and Chicago evaluations.

 

[sfvega]

Lindstein's further along in his development and did not miss a year of development like Jirecek. So, yeah, of course. But Jiricek has physical skills that will make it easier for him. We'll have to wait and see if his IQ progresses. And I think there is room to improve his skating which is already good as well.

Linstein is a safer bet so it's easier to project him to imagine him hitting even above his ceiling. He played more and we got to see him do well. We have seen less of Jiricek, and he is younger, and didn't play in WJC against his peer group. He is less certain. But I think his ceiling is higher because of his raw skills and abilities

I know we've disagreed on Jiricek in the past, which is likely the crux of the issue. But I do think there's a lot put into Jiricek being a blue chip, 1st pairing prospect and Lindstein being a safer, less likely 1st pairing prospect. But when you look at the classes they were in, I think it's much more likely that they are in the same tier of prospect. I think in 2023, Jiricek definitely goes after ASP, and maybe after Bonk, maybe before. I'm not sure. I think if you put Lindstein without his year of development in the 2024 class that he's definitely in that same 16-22 range. I think they're the same tier prospect to begin with, but one is coming off a lost season and one is coming off a big season. So while it is easier to project Lindstein with a year in the rearview, I don't think their ceilings are all that different to begin with.

 

[Blanick]

I feel like this is an unfair comparison in terms of overall ability but from my watching of Lindstein's game he reminds me a lot of Nick Lidstrom in how he plays hockey. Very calm, not really flashy but extremely effective. It does not surprise me that many "experts" don't rank him highly as they seemingly always lean more towards flash then substance.