Blow this team up already!

[MilkofthePoppy]

I don't know why I tuned in tonight thinking anything would be different. Shanahan, Dubas, and Keefe should have been fired after the Montreal debacle. Losing to a storied rival in shambolic fashion should have been enough to wake this franchise up.

Tonight I realized that things will never change with this franchise. Too much was given to these players too soon. It is over. This series will either end in 4 or 5 games. Blow it up. Every player should be on the table. Bring in a hard-nosed management core to instill a warrior mentality. This won't happen with woke MLSE and the tandem of Rogers/Bell at the helm. I am done with this team for the foreseeable future.

 

[Lightsol]

Your fear is fair because each player is good on paper including Marner. At least in the regular season. But the sum of these parts is utterly useless when it matters.

They will need to change it up and if that means Marner then it's him. Addition by subtraction while using the cap space to round out the team a bit more. In the end, I think they will toss next season (maybe grab a goalie + supplementary changes) and wait for Tavares' contract to run out.

If they couldn't remove Willy, they won't remove Marner either.

To be honest, if this season cemented one thing for me, it's that Willy should have been the one they moved. I said during his big hot streak that my fear was that he was only playing that way because his contract was up and that once they signed him, he'd go back to the player he'd been for most of his career. And that's pretty much the best way to describe pre-contract and post-contract William Nylander this season.

The issue with Nylander is he's not the goal scorer Matthews is, he's not the setup man Marner is, he's worse defensively than both (and it's not even close), you can't use him on the PK at all (which is kind of a problem with an $11 million player and is a big problem with Tavares as well)...

 

[Dave92]

You make some valid points but we should probably wait until they are eliminated

Seeing them traded mid series would be infinitely more entertaining.

 

[Stephen]

Because the Leafs have a consistent pattern they fall into, and the next stage after this is "rip team apart, turn into terrible team that can't make playoffs but can't bottom out".

Missing the playoffs isn't the end of the world when the alternative is this annual shit show.

 

[DuklaNation]

If an all situation dman with a big point shot equivalent of Tavares signed back then, it would have altered the trajectory of this team. Unfortunately this didn't happen and management was incapable of fixing a seriously flawed roster while wasting assets with quick fix attempts. Brutal case study.

 

[PROUD PAPA]

Nothing. But I've also seen the Leafs dump players concluding they "don't have it" only for them to dominate elsewhere, while the Leafs end up with the short end of the stick. And with the situation they're in, it could EASILY turn into the situation I described, where the only good player they have left is an aging Nylander on an overpaid contract literally playing as a mercenary, but because of him the Leafs end up in the same situation they did in the Burke era; not bad enough to finish low, but nowhere near a playoff team.

Thanks for the reply.
My preference is to end the commitment to what I perceive as a broken dream. What we accomplish in the playoffs imo isn’t worth much of anything. We can head in a different direction after next season or extend the commitment that we have now.

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

Slowly she crept up to the box, lifting the lid, she peeked inside...

Religion was invented when the first con man met the first sucker. Hockey took note and rode the "hope" train to Profitville. Preying on the ignorant every penny of the way.

Using Pandora's box as the cash register.

All ML$E does is sell hope. Leafs fans are no better than the bald guy buying rogaine. Our expectations are way too high for what we pay.

Even though it still costs an arm and a leg.

The fans can see the four forward experiment has been a massive and costly boondoggle on the world's largest hockey stage. Yet ML$E continues selling this team as a contender. Preying on a fan base desperately clinging to that last straw of hope...

Hope, which Mercury had hidden amongst the evils, when he saw were the gods were plotting.

 

[LeafalCrusader]

Fire Keefe

And Shanny

 

[Donnie740]

I'd like to give them one final shot under a new coach next year, and besides we kinda have to give the structure of the contracts that have been given out. I'd definitely be open to tearing it down after that if they fail miserably under yet another coach though.

Exactly.

Toronto finally got a professional GM this year after a half decade of complete incompetence by an unqualified kid from Brock Community College. And for once the Leafs didn’t give away their 1st round pick for an injured 3rd line hack on an expiring contract.

Now let’s get a professional coach and see what happens next year.

 

[ruaware41]

The character of this team seems very poor. You got Bitch Whiner who constantly complains about the media being too mean and wants to exchange hugs with players during the game, you got William CONTRACTLANDER who started this whole fiasco by sitting out for half a year as an RFA, and you got a captain who will never stand up for his teammates and shows no passion for the game. Domi has been the only bright spot on this team over the past 2 weeks. His play making looks pretty decent out there.

 

[BayStBullies]

Spend the mountain of money on hiring people from the Campbell family. Without a doubt the most value for money this team could ever make.

 

[colchar]

With that said, I want to see this guy go on one of his scoring hot streaks in the playoffs and just take over like he has at times in the regular season. People can bring up all kinds of factors, but the man is a 69 goal scorer. It's time for him to have a series like Ovechkin had in 2009 versus PIT. If the team won't help you, f*** it. Impose dominance.

He has literally never done that before, what the hell makes you think he is capable of doing it now?

 

[hfman]

He has literally never done that before, what the hell makes you think he is capable of doing it now?

He has NEVER shown up in the playoffs. Going on what, 8 years now? A lot longer than people realize.

Regular season hero, playoff bust. A dime a dozen.

 

[Dirty Dan]

I don't think it makes sense to trade a guy like Matthews. How likely is it TOR gets a talent that is on par or better if they move on from him? Keep him and do what it takes to build a winning product around him.

With that said, I want to see this guy go on one of his scoring hot streaks in the playoffs and just take over like he has at times in the regular season. People can bring up all kinds of factors, but the man is a 69 goal scorer. It's time for him to have a series like Ovechkin had in 2009 versus PIT. If the team won't help you, f*** it. Impose dominance.

Yeah no, Matthew's isn't even close I don't care about numbers the eye test is glaring

 

[rielledup]

The amount of times they've come out flat with no urgency or energy in the playoffs the last two years and beyond is troubling especially considering their lack of playoff success. At what point do you decide that this core just doesn't have it and never will?

 

[leafs in five]

The amount of times they've come out flat with no urgency or energy in the playoffs the last two years and beyond is troubling especially considering their lack of playoff success. At what point do you decide that this core just doesn't have it and never will?

they came out flying last night, hitting everything. and then a bad read and another bad read led to a goal against

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Of the current roster, the only 4 players that were on the team in 2016 are |Matthews, Marner, Nylander, and Reilly.

Someone did the math last season, but I believe there has been over SEVENTY players since that they've shuffled around that core 4. Seventy. And it always leads to the same result. Domination in the regullar season and humiliation in the playoffs.

What's the common denominator?

The team works so long as Matthews scores 60+ goals and Marner/Nylander get 100 points. But in the playoffs they become pedestrian. They're 5 million dollar players in the playoffs. They no longer carry the team on their shoulders.

The 70 players we surround the entitled spoiled core 4 with feel like hired guns. They made that clear in the post playoffs admin interviews last year. I've been saying it since the humiliating series loss to Columbus... the design of the team being built around the overpaid core 4 is flawed. It would work if they were fierce playoff warriors but they're not. I've been screaming... SCREAMING.... for the leafs to break up the core 4. But they won't. So we'll see the same nonsense every playoffs.

 

[pspot]

You literally can’t . Fire Keefe and Wait for jt to expire

 

[Punch Drunk Loov]

Domi is the only good player on the team.

 

[Racer88]

Of the current roster, the only 4 players that were on the team in 2016 are |Matthews, Marner, Nylander, and Reilly.

Someone did the math last season, but I believe there has been over SEVENTY players since that they've shuffled around that core 4. Seventy. And it always leads to the same result. Domination in the regullar season and humiliation in the playoffs.

What's the common denominator?

The team works so long as Matthews scores 60+ goals and Marner/Nylander get 100 points. But in the playoffs they become pedestrian. They're 5 million dollar players in the playoffs. They no longer carry the team on their shoulders.

The 70 players we surround the entitled spoiled core 4 with feel like hired guns. They made that clear in the post playoffs admin interviews last year. I've been saying it since the humiliating series loss to Columbus... the design of the team being built around the overpaid core 4 is flawed. It would work if they were fierce playoff warriors but they're not. I've been screaming... SCREAMING.... for the leafs to break up the core 4. But they won't. So we'll see the same nonsense every playoffs.

Yup, add in the Tavares swing and a miss and here we are.
The only way out of this is to try and convince Marner to give them a short list of teams and try to trade him and at least get something back.
The other option is another year of failure and let him and Tavares walk and start over with a retool

 

[BallardEra]

I've always said that Keefe was Boudreau 2.0 come playoff time.

Leafs need their version of Trotz to get to the final goal.

 

[hullsy47]

Missing the playoffs isn't the end of the world when the alternative is this annual shit show.

even the islanders show more than the leafs .its just looks like they just dont want to play any system

Of the current roster, the only 4 players that were on the team in 2016 are |Matthews, Marner, Nylander, and Reilly.

Someone did the math last season, but I believe there has been over SEVENTY players since that they've shuffled around that core 4. Seventy. And it always leads to the same result. Domination in the regullar season and humiliation in the playoffs.

What's the common denominator?

The team works so long as Matthews scores 60+ goals and Marner/Nylander get 100 points. But in the playoffs they become pedestrian. They're 5 million dollar players in the playoffs. They no longer carry the team on their shoulders.

The 70 players we surround the entitled spoiled core 4 with feel like hired guns. They made that clear in the post playoffs admin interviews last year. I've been saying it since the humiliating series loss to Columbus... the design of the team being built around the overpaid core 4 is flawed. It would work if they were fierce playoff warriors but they're not. I've been screaming... SCREAMING.... for the leafs to break up the core 4. But they won't. So we'll see the same nonsense every playoffs.

 

[hullsy47]

its what u get ,when a rookie gm ,thinks u can win a cup without solid goatending and no true number 1 defenseman
dubas ,just has to look at his own penguins ,to realize what they had to win a cup ,in their prime

 

[mjd1001]

I am not in love with the makeup of this team. But in the last 4 years they have finished 10th overall, 4th, 4th, and 6th in the league. They are always a top 10 team, and will be for the next few years. To me that means they are not likely to EVER be the cup favorite with this roster, but they always have a chance. Not 50% or more, but certainly not 5% or less each year. Is that good enough? So far no it hasn't been, but I think this team's "peak" window to perform is this year and next year, maybe even the year after.

The problem for me is, if you tear this down, sure you can get great assets for your players, but part of your return is going to be dependant not only on how good the guys you trade away are, but on their contracts. I beleive the 60th best player in the league on a bargain contract may be more valuable than the 5th or 10th or 20th best player who has a market-rate or higher contract. Leaf's don't have any 'value' contracts. Next, you tear this down, you are likely to take (at least temporarily) a step back.

Finally, if your current management structure is the one who built THIS team, that brings up 2 issues: Do you expect them to say "my bad, 'lets take a top 10 team overall in the league and break it down, even though it is MY team"? Likely not, they are going to ride this out because these are THEIR guys....and even if they did tear it down, do you expect the guys who failed to be the ones who do it right the next time? maybe, but If i'm going to tear it down, I want to start at the top.

To me, no rebuild, no teardown until the entire top of the management team is gone, Shanahan, Treliving, Keefe...unless they are ALL released, you aren't going to see any kind of rebuild/teardown.

 

[hullsy47]

Yup, add in the Tavares swing and a miss and here we are.
The only way out of this is to try and convince Marner to give them a short list of teams and try to trade him and at least get something back.
The other option is another year of failure and let him and Tavares walk and start over with a retool

The character of this team seems very poor. You got Bitch Whiner who constantly complains about the media being too mean and wants to exchange hugs with players during the game, you got William CONTRACTLANDER who started this whole fiasco by sitting out for half a year as an RFA, and you got a captain who will never stand up for his teammates and shows no passion for the game. Domi has been the only bright spot on this team over the past 2 weeks. His play making looks pretty decent out there.

lol ,this gave me a chuckle ty for your humor ,but its bang on ,nylander sitting out the whole year might have done this group a world of good
now its mitchys turn to do the"oliver twist JUST A LITTLE MORE "at contract time
its sad when every fan on this board knows the flaws this team has ,and ownership doesnt