Proposal: Blockbuster: BUF + MTL + CGY

[Neutrinos]

Makes no sense for Montreal. They give up Jets pick only save 3 million in caproom. When caproom not an issue in Montreal. We went 8 million under cap this past year.

Montreal also gets a significant upgrade to their lineup

Skinner has 92 goals, 191 points, and is only -1 over his last 233 games

Gallagher has 45 goals, 92 points, and is -26 over his last 205 games

Anderson has 49 goals, 84 points, and is -51 over his last 216 games

Maybe i'm misunderstanding but Kadri has a lot more than 2 years left.

Kadri has 5 years remaining

The incoming Gallagher and Anderson each have 3 years left

Saying the 'Flames shed the final 2 years of Kadri's deal' is just another way of saying they open up cap space after 3 years

 

[Habs Halifax]

Montreal also gets a significant upgrade to their lineup

Skinner has 92 goals, 191 points, and is only -1 over his last 233 games

Gallagher has 45 goals, 92 points, and is -26 over his last 205 games

Anderson has 49 goals, 84 points, and is -51 over his last 216 games

Meh, I don't want Skinner. Rather let Gallagher and Anderson expire.

 

[Flames Fanatic]

This is awful for the Flames.

 

[DJJones]

Skinner for Kadri and Andersson

wtf haha

 

[Double Dion]

Skinner for Kadri and Andersson

wtf haha

There was a Sabres fan who felt this was a bad deal for them.

 

[TGWL]

Never thought I'd say this, but leave Montreal out of this, lol.

 

[DJJones]

There was a Sabres fan who felt this was a bad deal for them.

I wouldn't trade Anderson for the 11th

 

[tsujimoto74]

Skinner for Kadri and Andersson

wtf haha

Did you, uh, miss the 11th overall pick?

 

[Ford Prefect]

Habs say no thanks. Skinner doesn’t fit into any rebuilding timeline so might as well keep the two we have and hope they rebound. Buyout later if necessary. Can also think of better use of the 26th pick in another trade

I like this from Montreal's perspective. You shed a bit of cap space, while improving your middle 6 (or top 6 if he plays like he did 2-3 years ago). Gallagher is not rebounding. He's a player in decline, whose playing style the last 12 years has caught up to him. What do you want Anderson to rebound to? A player that can produce at the level Skinner currently is? Whose ceiling do you think is higher? Sure Anderson has size and speed, but what has that done for him, he with the hands made of stone?

The only thing that stings a bit is losing the character of Gallagher. I don't know how Skinner is viewed the Sabres' room, but he's one of the leaders of ours.

 

[tsujimoto74]

I wouldn't trade Anderson for the 11th

Buffalo shouldn’t touch that anyway. As has already been said many times in the zillion thread about him, Andersson made sense as a target for the Sabres before we got Byram. Makes no sense now.

 

[Ford Prefect]

Makes no sense for Montreal. They give up Jets pick only save 3 million in caproom. When caproom not an issue in Montreal. We went 8 million under cap this past year.

No we didn't, we went 2.5 million into LTIR. Those are two VERY different things.

 

[DJJones]

Buffalo shouldn’t touch that anyway. As has already been said many times in the zillion thread about him, Andersson made sense as a target for the Sabres before we got Byram. Makes no sense now.

Well somehow the thread added Kadri and Skinner to an already poor proposal haha

 

[Ford Prefect]

So at how many rebuilds do you think Buffalo should go and acquire actual good NHL players? Rebuild #4 or rebuild #5? You're on #3 now and it's pretty clear to me and everyone watching you need a tough minutes center and a top 4 RD. You also have more forward prospects than you have roster spots. Do you not think 13 years is long enough? Which RD do you think is available who is better than Andersson? BTW, you're dead wrong on 11OA being more valuable than Andersson. It's not really even close. 11OA in this draft is yet another 2nd line forward or a defenseman who will take 5 years to be a top 4 guy that isn't as good as Andersson.

I don't think that is accurate at all. One of Buium/Parekh/Yakemchuk/Dickinson will slip that far and they are by no means guy who will take 5 years to become top 4 players. Sennecke or Catton or Eiserman might take longer, but their upside is 1st line, not second. I think you underestimate this year's draft (though you may be right inferring that it's weaker than everyone else thinks).

 

[Double Dion]

I wouldn't trade Anderson for the 11th

No one rational would for that alone. 11th OA and a prospect gets close on the value.

 

[Double Dion]

I don't think that is accurate at all. One of Buium/Parekh/Yakemchuk/Dickinson will slip that far and they are by no means guy who will take 5 years to become top 4 players. Sennecke or Catton or Eiserman might take longer, but their upside is 1st line, not second. I think you underestimate this year's draft (though you may be right inferring that it's weaker than everyone else thinks).

Catton has Barzal/Keller potential. It's my opinion he's by far the best WHLer in the draft. He's not there at 11 I don't think. Sennecke and Eiserman aren't even locks to play. Yakemchuk I watch up close and personal. I don't think he steps into your top 4 for at least 4 years and maybe never. He's not a great defender at the WHL level. The shot is there and he's nasty, but he can't defend in junior. Haven't seen enough of Buium to comment. Parekh is an extremely poor defender in junior. He'd get scored on 4-5 times a game in a top 4 role as is. He's a project or a 6/7 PP specialist.

 

[Chainshot]

This is horrendous for the Flames

That's my thought - if anyone in this is saying no, it's Calgary.

 

[Mersss]

Sabres --> #11, Skinner
Sabres <-- Kadri, R. Andersson

Habs --> #26, Gallagher, J. Anderson
Habs <-- Skinner

Flames --> Kadri, R. Andersson
Flames <-- #11, #26, Gallagher, J. Anderson


Buffalo add significant upgrades to their lineup at C and RD while also shedding Skinner's contract

Montreal land a notable upgrade to their middle 6, shave a few million from their cap, and clear 15.5 million in real dollars from their payroll

Calgary get a pair of 1sts to kick off their rebuild, while clearing the final 2 years of Kadri's contract

Habs dont give a damn about real $ lol. We aint getting the worse contract in the nhl and give a pick to do so

 

[Ford Prefect]

Catton has Barzal/Keller potential. It's my opinion he's by far the best WHLer in the draft. He's not there at 11 I don't think. Sennecke and Eiserman aren't even locks to play. Yakemchuk I watch up close and personal. I don't think he steps into your top 4 for at least 4 years and maybe never. He's not a great defender at the WHL level. The shot is there and he's nasty, but he can't defend in junior. Haven't seen enough of Buium to comment. Parekh is an extremely poor defender in junior. He'd get scored on 4-5 times a game in a top 4 role as is. He's a project or a 6/7 PP specialist.

Eiserman I agree with, though this a huge boom or bust player. I heard through one of the talking heads that he's already spoken to the BU coaching staff on committing to improving his defence, and he may have a program in place over this summer. If he doesn't round out his game he'll be a Mike Hoffman type player who could have a few decent seasons sprinkled inbetween many disappointing ones.

I disagree on Sennecke, though. His hands were silky before his growth spurt. He will be an NHLer, the question is what role does he adapt to in the NHL. It's been said and bears worth repeating that he has yet to grow into his body. Once the weight and strength comes in, he'll still have the mitts and creativity, with more weapons to use them with. You are probably correct in that these two will not be in the NHL in the next year or possibly two. They are both very intriguing and have ridiculous upside (which yes, has been said about many prospects).

I will certainly defer to your impressions of Yakemchuk; I haven't really seen even highlights of him, I'm just regurgitating what scouts have said. Defending is obviously a paramount prerequisite for a defender, but defence can be taught. A great shot, vision, and hockey sense can't. They're still very effective if paired with a defensively responsible partner.

What percentage of defencemen taken within the first 11 picks take 5 years to make it to the top 4?

 

[Double Dion]

Eiserman I agree with, though this a huge boom or bust player. I heard through one of the talking heads that he's already spoken to the BU coaching staff on committing to improving his defence, and he may have a program in place over this summer. If he doesn't round out his game he'll be a Mike Hoffman type player who could have a few decent seasons sprinkled inbetween many disappointing ones.

I disagree on Sennecke, though. His hands were silky before his growth spurt. He will be an NHLer, the question is what role does he adapt to in the NHL. It's been said and bears worth repeating that he has yet to grow into his body. Once the weight and strength comes in, he'll still have the mitts and creativity, with more weapons to use them with. You are probably correct in that these two will not be in the NHL in the next year or possibly two. They are both very intriguing and have ridiculous upside (which yes, has been said about many prospects).

I will certainly defer to your impressions of Yakemchuk; I haven't really seen even highlights of him, I'm just regurgitating what scouts have said. Defending is obviously a paramount prerequisite for a defender, but defence can be taught. A great shot, vision, and hockey sense can't. They're still very effective if paired with a defensively responsible partner.

What percentage of defencemen taken within the first 11 picks take 5 years to make it to the top 4?

Reasonable post. I guess it depends on what you mean by top 4. Mostly picks taken in the top 11 are going to bad teams with bad bluelines. 2 of the 4 from 2019 are top 4 guys. I'd argue that was a better draft than this one. That was the draft from 5 years ago. From the draft 4 years ago only Sanderson is presently a top 4 guy. From the draft 3 years ago only Power and he was a 2002 birthday and about as old as drafted prospects get.

I honestly think you don't totally know what you have in a defenseman until 200 games played in the NHL. Some guys even longer.

 

[Ford Prefect]

Habs dont give a damn about real $ lol. We aint getting the worse contract in the nhl and give a pick to do so

Sorry, which contract do you think is the worst in the NHL? Over the last 2 season Skinner has produced at a clip of 153-59-69-128. Both Gallagher and Anderson TOGETHER produced a line of 261-54-43-97. So the former you get for $9.5 million and the latter you spend a combined $12 million. And you think that's the worst in the league?? While maybe not worth that much money, his contract is certainly better than both of the ones we'd be trading away. And a CRAP ton more if they trade him with some retention.

 

[Neutrinos]

Sorry, which contract do you think is the worst in the NHL? Over the last 2 season Skinner has produced at a clip of 153-59-69-128. Both Gallagher and Anderson TOGETHER produced a line of 261-54-43-97. So the former you get for $9.5 million and the latter you spend a combined $12 million. And you think that's the worst in the league?? While maybe not worth that much money, his contract is certainly better than both of the ones we'd be trading away. And a CRAP ton more if they trade him with some retention.

Skinner's cap hit is 9 million

 

[Neutrinos]

The habs would benefit by $9 million over 3 years not $15.5 and yet have to pay a roster spot out of that

I said 'clear 15.5 million in real dollars from their payroll'

While Skinner will carry a 9 million dollar cap hit each season for the duration of his contract, he will be paid 10 million dollars next season, 7 million the following season, and just 5 million in the final year

 

[Wayfarer13]

I said 'clear 15.5 million in real dollars from their payroll'

While Skinner will carry a 9 million dollar cap hit each season for the duration of his contract, he will be paid 10 million dollars next season, 7 million the following season, and just 5 million in the final year

I was looking at cap hit. In real dollars we are talking Molson money here

 

[Mersss]

Sorry, which contract do you think is the worst in the NHL? Over the last 2 season Skinner has produced at a clip of 153-59-69-128. Both Gallagher and Anderson TOGETHER produced a line of 261-54-43-97. So the former you get for $9.5 million and the latter you spend a combined $12 million. And you think that's the worst in the league?? While maybe not worth that much money, his contract is certainly better than both of the ones we'd be trading away. And a CRAP ton more if they trade him with some retention.

Habs save 2M in cap hit.

The player they'll need to sign to take the roster spot will make more than 2M$, and Skinner has been terrible for several year beside a fluke year 2 years ago.

We'll keep Anderson as we all know Gallagher will end up on Robidas Island sooner rhan later

 

[Ford Prefect]

Reasonable post. I guess it depends on what you mean by top 4. Mostly picks taken in the top 11 are going to bad teams with bad bluelines. 2 of the 4 from 2019 are top 4 guys. I'd argue that was a better draft than this one. That was the draft from 5 years ago. From the draft 4 years ago only Sanderson is presently a top 4 guy. From the draft 3 years ago only Power and he was a 2002 birthday and about as old as drafted prospects get.

I honestly think you don't totally know what you have in a defenseman until 200 games played in the NHL. Some guys even longer.

I REALLY didn't want to go down a rabbit hole, so naturally I went down head first. I looked back since the 2002 draft to satisfy myself (you know, with an answer...) regarding what percentage of top 11 picks made it into the top 4 within 5 years. I went from 2002 to 2019, as those drafted since have the ability to still get there.

There were 59 (or 62; I may have forgotten to include '07) d-men drafted in the top 11. Of those 37 made it to top 4 status in 5 years or less. There were some (like Nurse) who made it but took a little longer. The d-men in the 02, 03, and 04 draft kinda got screwed by the '05 lockout. There are some you can argue weren't true top 4 dmen. Those I included:

1. Jack Johnson
2. Zach Bogosion
3. Luke Schenn
4. Ryan Ellis (certainly top 4, but whether he really achieved that by his 5th year is debatable)
5. Erik Gudbranson

I think all the aforementioned were in top 4, though there might be an argument to exclude them. There may be a couple I would have excluded that others might not. So approximately 2/3 will be quality in the not to distant future.

Inclusions:
02 - Bouwmeester, Pitkanen, Whitney
03 - Suter, Phaneuf
05 - J. Johnson
06 - E. Johnson
07 - Doughty, Bogosion, Pietranglo, Schenn
09 - Hedman, OE-L, Ellis
10 - Gudbranson
11 - Larsson, Brodin, Hamilton
12 - R. Murray, Rielly, Lindholm, Dumba, Trouba
13 - Jones, Ristolainen
14 - Ekblad
15 - Hanifin, Provorov, Werenski
16 - Sergachev
17 - Heiskanen, Makar
18 - Dahlin, Hughes, Bouchard
19 - Byram, Seider

You want to know who didn't make it, look it up yourself. I wasted WAY too much time on this.