Blackwood/Vanecek/We Really Need to Move On/Goalie Thread

[Bleedred]

If I'm Fitz I'm trying to play blackwood enough to see what I've going to get back at the TDL for him.

I don't think anyone in the organization has that luxury, as that will weaken everybody's job security if his last two years are indication.

Ruff threw him under the bus (as nicely as he could) after last game and didn't even attempt to try and pretend that the pull was anything less than Blackwood sucking. It doesn't sound like he wants to do something like that.

He simply isn't good enough to bring back anything good by himself. He can be used as a goalie going back the other way for another goalie, but we're also adding to that if we expect to get anybody that's half decent in return.

He's due a qualifying offer next year that's more than I think anybody wants to spend on him. So no one gets any kind of a deal on the fact that he's an RFA after this year as he's due a significant raise to what he's already making, which is way overpayment for what he is.

He's worth about a million a year and is owed I think over $4 million next year.

They realistically could have gotten more for him last offseason, as he was almost a whole younger, as well as one less half season or 3/4th's season of suck and more time missed with injuries.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Dude, you guys pump SV% up there in a vacuum. In almost all of those cases except for one, I think, he led the team in SV% for goalies with more than 10 games. Dawes had .893 to his .892 one year...

why are you acting like this matters?

Being 'better' than some of the other turd goalies we've had is not some accomplishment

 

[billingtons ghost]

Everybody you named is either almost as bad or as bad as Blackwood (Mrazek, Ned, Petersen) or they have term left beyond this year.

Petersen has 2 years left after this? Gibson has 4 years left. Grubauer has I think 4 years left? All of their contracts suck. Even shitty Mrazek has a year left. Merzlikins has I think another 4 or 5 years? Campbell had 4 years left.

Why would we wanna take on these guys?

Ned is the only one on an expiring contract and he’s almost like a Blackwood. Only he’s about the size of Darren Pang.

According to you nobody is as bad as Blackwood. You keep rolling out the same SV% shit and how we have to get rid of guys or not play them. I counter with: That's just sheer stupidity, bc the rest of the league is clamboring for any warm body btw the pipes and you just made my f*cking point by pointing out the obvious that at least six or seven teams are icing guys who you are now arguing ARE WORSE THAN BLACKWOOD.

You can't have it both ways. As I made really clear: there are *plenty* of bad goalies out there with jobs. Guys who you've absolutely killed for years like Jones and Gibson are #1s and that we have jettisoned ...Wedgewood, Comrie, Delia, Dell ..are actually playing.

So:. Why would we take in these guys? Well, they cannot possibly be worse than the guy you are killing every night? Right?

If no, then maybe Florida wants to jettison Bob and his contract if Barkov stays out and say Tkachuk goes down. Say Talbot in Ottawaaint worth it if they are going nowhere, or the Binnington saga had run to it's conclusion?

You seem to think that goalies completely control their own fate on the ice. If this is so then I don't know what teams think about when they give contracts they regret within six months to guys like Peterson, Merzlikens, Grubauer, Campbell, Nedjelkovic etcetcetc.

Outside a very select group (and maybe Markstrom, Demko, and a few others are falling out of that group?) of like ten? goalies, it's a complete crapshoot when a goalie goes to a new team.

I can't imagine teams that are playing the guys you think are WORSE than Blackwood would not trade their albatrosses for him, and pretty much according to everyone on this board...how can we go wrong by doing so?

You can't hold the position that Blackwood is the worst but that nobody is better than him.

"Why would we wanna take on these guys?"

Bc at some point folks thought they were going to be great? Campbell fooled the Kings, Toronto AND Edmonton. Merzlikens? Markstrom? Demko? Great or trash?

 

[billingtons ghost]

why are you acting like this matters?

Being 'better' than some of the other turd goalies we've had is not some accomplishment

No, but you (and others) don't seem to understand that a great goalie will not magically appear out of a vacuum.

We either need to rearrange deck chairs and swap Blackwood for the best value retread or change-of-scenery goaltenderwe can get (which is seemingly half the goaltenders in the league right now) , or resign ourselves that we are stuck with him until the end of the season and hope he turns it around.

I'm arguing we play the turd to build some value and swap him for the best available turd out there since we won't want to resign him, yet we need an NHL goalie in case VV goes down.

It's asset management at this point. We will likely have to deal for a goalie anyway unless we are all aboard the Schmid train.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

we really aren't stuck with him til the end of the season. We have at least one guy in Utica who is better.

 

[billingtons ghost]

we really aren't stuck with him til the end of the season. We have at least one guy in Utica who is better.

Then you put him on waivers, he gets claimed, VV gets nicked up and we are back where we were last year?

Not an acceptable game plan.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

then we have Schmid who is better than literally anything we had last year, including himself.

no one is claiming him.

 

[billingtons ghost]

My pulling the plug statement was more a general statement about his time with the organization than a we need to do whatever to get rid of him immediately statement. I'd prefer to bury him in the minors and give Schmid a longer look as Vanecek's backup, but I would imagine after last season Fitz would be hesitant to just waive a goalie for nothing. I'd be more okay with all of this if the team was bad again, but they're not and at this point playing Blackwood seems more a detriment to the team than it is a help (and before I hear it I know he just won recently but he then followed that up by shitting the bed...again).

Wow, you can make such assessments after seven period of hockey behind a struggling team? Ok, if VV comes back and stands on his head and we win, I'm all for not seeing Blackwood again until a back to back.

I get what you're saying, and if Blackwood had options then sure, play Schmid.

But like all the other folks bitching here don't understand... that's just not the frigging scenario man, and it would be a hell of alot worse for us to repeat the Wedgewood fiasco, IMHO. That could *really* sink this season.

 

[billingtons ghost]

Further: so send him off for a real piece of garbage like Nedjelkovic and have them add a Bastian replacement.

Or add Severson and get something *good* back and take our chances with Bahl. I just want a legit vet #2, or a guy with a possibility of regaining his form.

 

[Bleedred]

According to you nobody is as bad as Blackwood. You keep rolling out the same SV% shit and how we have to get rid of guys or not play them. I counter with: That's just sheer stupidity, bc the rest of the league is clamboring for any warm body btw the pipes and you just made my f*cking point by pointing out the obvious that at least six or seven teams are icing guys who you are now arguing ARE WORSE THAN BLACKWOOD.

You can't have it both ways. As I made really clear: there are *plenty* of bad goalies out there with jobs. Guys who you've absolutely killed for years like Jones and Gibson are #1s and that we have jettisoned ...Wedgewood, Comrie, Delia, Dell ..are actually playing.

So:. Why would we take in these guys? Well, they cannot possibly be worse than the guy you are killing every night? Right?

If no, then maybe Florida wants to jettison Bob and his contract if Barkov stays out and say Tkachuk goes down. Say Talbot in Ottawaaint worth it if they are going nowhere, or the Binnington saga had run to it's conclusion?

You seem to think that goalies completely control their own fate on the ice. If this is so then I don't know what teams think about when they give contracts they regret within six months to guys like Peterson, Merzlikens, Grubauer, Campbell, Nedjelkovic etcetcetc.

Outside a very select group (and maybe Markstrom, Demko, and a few others are falling out of that group?) of like ten? goalies, it's a complete crapshoot when a goalie goes to a new team.

I can't imagine teams that are playing the guys you think are WORSE than Blackwood would not trade their albatrosses for him, and pretty much according to everyone on this board...how can we go wrong by doing so?

You can't hold the position that Blackwood is the worst but that nobody is better than him.

"Why would we wanna take on these guys?"

Bc at some point folks thought they were going to be great? Campbell fooled the Kings, Toronto AND Edmonton. Merzlikens? Markstrom? Demko? Great or trash?

Woah, woah, woah. Hold up.

We did this just last week. Not you and I but someone else.

I didn’t say all those guys were worse than Blackwood. I said we don’t want their contracts.

Mrazek I’ll give you. He’s no better than Blackwood and probably even worse than Blackwood and has not played well anywhere other than Carolina since 2015-2016. And he even had a mediocre season there.

Ned has had a good season more recently than Blackwood, but overall I’m not sure he’s much better.

Jones? Yeah, he sucks. He hasn’t had a good season since before Blackwood was in the league. Yeah, he’s at the very best equal to Blackwood.

Korpisalo is one guy you didn’t name that’s worse than Blackwood.

Gibson USED to be very good, but has had what appears to be a 30+ year old Cory Schneider decline, only starting at age 26.

Delia and Dell are only up because their teams have injuries. They’re AHL goalies. It’s stupid to count them as playing in the league. And Dell is definitely not even up right now. He did play earlier in the year when Reimer was injured.

Comrie and Wedgewood both had their first decent NHL seasons just last year and got contracts this year because of it. Comrie has been a disaster so far in Buffalo (and is now injured) and Wedgewood has okay as a backup in Dallas. And Wedgewood didn’t even become an NHL regular until he was 28-29 years old.

I never said Merzlikins is worse than Blackwood, but his contract sucks. Keep in mind that this year is Merzlikins first bad season in the NHL.

This is also Campbell’s first season anywhere near this bad in the NHL, although as I’ve pointed out and Leafs have continuously pointed out, he started falling off from December last year onward.

And as bad as Campbell has been this year, they just signed him a minute ago and he’s only played like 5 or 6 games in the last 6 weeks or so. He’s only played 5 more games than Blackwood has this year and I don’t think he’s missed any time with injury. I think he’s dressed every game. That’s why I say, if they can bench him a hot minute after signing him to a 5 year deal, we can surely relegate Blackwood to the backup and nothing more.

I didn’t say most of those guys are worse than Blackwood, just that they are EITHER as bad as him or their contracts just plain suck and have term left.

 

[Bleedred]

Further: so send him off for a real piece of garbage like Nedjelkovic and have them add a Bastian replacement.

Or add Severson and get something *good* back and take our chances with Bahl. I just want a legit vet #2, or a guy with a possibility of regaining his form.

How about don’t send him off for Nedeljkovic. Why are we trading one shitty goalie for another not good goalie?

I’d rather see Schmid again than see either Blackwood or Alex Nedeljkovic and all 5 foot 8 of him.

 

[Tundra]

MacKenzie Blackwood = Zach Wilson, anyone who watches the NFL/Jets can understand this comparison. Both guys are holding their teams back and until both teams get rid of them they won't take the next step regardless of good those rosters are. What the Devils have done is arguably worse since they've given Blackwood way more chances than he's deserved.

He's started 9 games of 34 (with a 5-3 record). He's not Zach Wilson by any stretch of the imagination.

Except that when healthy Mackenzie has twice had seasons with save percentages over .915 (once winning 22 games for a team that had 28 wins all season). Vitek has yet to be over .908 for a season despite playing for a consistent playoff team and was deemed expendable by that team.

Despite your disdain for the guy, it would seem those who are in hockey as a profession have a bigger opinion of Blackwood.

I suspect Brodeur is in that camp as well.

 

[billingtons ghost]

How about don’t send him off for Nedeljkovic. Why are we trading one shitty goalie for another not good goalie?

I’d rather see Schmid again than see either Blackwood or Alex Nedeljkovic and all 5 foot 8 of him.

The only reason would be to have them add a fourth liner that could be of use to us until if/when Bastian gets back.

 

[billingtons ghost]

Woah, woah, woah. Hold up.

We did this just last week. Not you and I but someone else.

I didn’t say all those guys were worse than Blackwood. I said we don’t want their contracts.

Mrazek I’ll give you. He’s no better than Blackwood and probably even worse than Blackwood and has not played well anywhere other than Carolina since 2015-2016. And he even had a mediocre season there.

Ned has had a good season more recently than Blackwood, but overall I’m not sure he’s much better.

Jones? Yeah, he sucks. He hasn’t had a good season since before Blackwood was in the league. Yeah, he’s at the very best equal to Blackwood.

Korpisalo is one guy you didn’t name that’s worse than Blackwood.

Gibson USED to be very good, but has had what appears to be a 30+ year old Cory Schneider decline, only starting at age 26.

Delia and Dell are only up because their teams have injuries. They’re AHL goalies. It’s stupid to count them as playing in the league. And Dell is definitely not even up right now. He did play earlier in the year when Reimer was injured.

Comrie and Wedgewood both had their first decent NHL seasons just last year and got contracts this year because of it. Comrie has been a disaster so far in Buffalo (and is now injured) and Wedgewood has okay as a backup in Dallas. And Wedgewood didn’t even become an NHL regular until he was 28-29 years old.

I never said Merzlikins is worse than Blackwood, but his contract sucks. Keep in mind that this year is Merzlikins first bad season in the NHL.

This is also Campbell’s first season anywhere near this bad in the NHL, although as I’ve pointed out and Leafs have continuously pointed out, he started falling off from December last year onward.

And as bad as Campbell has been this year, they just signed him a minute ago and he’s only played like 5 or 6 games in the last 6 weeks or so. He’s only played 5 more games than Blackwood has this year and I don’t think he’s missed any time with injury. I think he’s dressed every game. That’s why I say, if they can bench him a hot minute after signing him to a 5 year deal, we can surely relegate Blackwood to the backup and nothing more.

I didn’t say most of those guys are worse than Blackwood, just that they are EITHER as bad as him or their contracts just plain suck and have term left.

That entire post, you just said that Blackwood is better than about half the league. We didn't even get into the Stalocks or Forsbergs, Elliot, Halak, Greiss, Quick, Martin, Stolarz etc...

I don't think anyone is saying 'play Blackwood as a #1a or even a 1b...but the hot takes saying we need to bench him or lose him to waivers are ridiculous.

But still my point is: if you are so adamant that the guy sucks, and you think Merzlikens or any of the guys with bad contracts are good, why not try to suck up one of those contacts if the guy might be the #1 goalie we don't have and need?

If you have no faith in the guy to step in if VV goes down, what's the point of keeping him as a backup?

I mean I guess I can see your point, but here's the rub:
You're lobbying to keep a question mark on our team without resolving anything. Why not figure out what we've got with him playing #1b minutes, and then trade him? Else why not roll the dice on Merzlikens or Peterson and hope you find a great goalie?

Don't play him result:
- we don't know if we can count on him
- we don't know if we should sign him next year
- we don't increase his trade value
- we lose him for nothing next year

Play him result: bad
- he costs us some games; recently so has VV and Schmid. Worst case, he costs us the playoffs. That's bad, but in the grand scheme if we are really that close to the bubble we probably need to be finding a replacement for VV too.
- we waive him and we learn if Schmid is the guy

Play him result good:
- he regains form and is our #1a or b or at least a legit 2, we resign him
- OR
- we trade him for a piece that helps us, or a better goalie
- we find out what we have in Schmid

I like the last one the best.

 

[MadDevil]

Wow, you can make such assessments after seven period of hockey behind a struggling team? Ok, if VV comes back and stands on his head and we win, I'm all for not seeing Blackwood again until a back to back.

I get what you're saying, and if Blackwood had options then sure, play Schmid.

But like all the other folks bitching here don't understand... that's just not the frigging scenario man, and it would be a hell of alot worse for us to repeat the Wedgewood fiasco, IMHO. That could *really* sink this season.

Seven periods? No, I have 2+ seasons of a goalie who can't stay healthy and whose numbers continue to get worse to make an assessment. I'd like to believe that someday Blackwood will figure his shit out and either become a decent goalie or improve his value but I don't, at least not with us. I do get where you're coming from in that we're probably stuck with him this season though. Personally I'd roll the dice and just send his ass to the AHL, but I'm not a GM who just used 7 goalies the previous season.

 

[glenwo2]

*peeks head out* So....how was everyone's Christmas?

....and @billingtons ghost , by all means tell us how you really feel. Damn.

For my part, I would rather Blackwood not play another game for us (and that I would rather Schmid be up instead) but that's not my call to make.

I will just have to bear with watching him start and thinking to myself : "So...how many routine shots will he give up for goals tonight?" (he's earned THAT type of expectation after 2+ seasons of crap ).

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

He's started 9 games of 34 (with a 5-3 record). He's not Zach Wilson by any stretch of the imagination.


I suspect Brodeur is in that camp as well.

why are we using W/L record for goalies as if it means anything? Especially in that small of a sample size?

 

[Bleedred]

why are we using W/L record for goalies as if it means anything? Especially in that small of a sample size?

ra·tion·al·i·za·tion

the action of attempting to explain or justify behavior or an attitude with logical reasons, even if these are not appropriate.

 

[glenwo2]

ra·tion·al·i·za·tion

the action of attempting to explain or justify behavior or an attitude with logical reasons, even if these are not appropriate.

my reaction to this entire debate :

 

[Maine Fan]

I said before the season started that "Blackwood would be a problem." He is a bigger problem than I thought because I didn't put into that statement that the Devils were going to be playing as well as they are, and a playoff contender. So Blackwood really screws the team. No other team is going to take him at the TDL. We are stuck with him. Off season he is another problem.
Sorry I told you so.

 

[My3Sons]

ra·tion·al·i·za·tion

the action of attempting to explain or justify behavior or an attitude with logical reasons, even if these are not appropriate.

that's the sort of thing I'd expect from someone who secretly has a shrine to Blackwood with incense candles, chicken bones for sacrifices, and various totems and charms, hidden in their wardrobe.

 

[glenwo2]

that's the sort of thing I'd expect from someone who secretly has a shrine to Blackwood with incense candles, chicken bones for sacrifices, and various totems and charms, hidden in their wardrobe.

*quickly hides Bratt figurines in closet*

uhh...yeah. Bleedred's funny like that. eheheh... *nervous laugh*

 

[Camille the Eel]

I expect we will see Blackwood again soon. When Ruff supposedly "threw him under the bus" in the post game the other night, he pointedly noted that Blackwood in the prior game (at Florida) had made the stops he didn't make against Boston. He also softened the whole thing by saying that he was sure Blackie himself would agree that he wanted some of those Boston shots back.

I read it as we will start Vanacek again and maybe play him a couple or even three games straight if he's playing top notch, but I can't imagine we don't rest him and play Blackwood at some point even under that scenario; but I think that if Vanacek struggles again in even his next start (the way he was struggling in Carolina and a prior game) all bets are off. Ruff is going to be looking for the guy who can give us consistent stops in goal. He's not committed to anyone particularly and will ride whomever. I just hope Vanacek cleans up his act as he's been off his angles and letting in some softies too ever since OT against the Rangers.

 

[Tundra]

 

[Jack Be Quick]

Always telling when someone who has never played professional sports claims an athlete being paid to play a sport "sucks".

Tends to say more about the poster than the athlete.

That's rich considering the source.

I've watched more hockey than 99.62% of the population. I'm no @StevenToddIves, @Bleedred, or @Guttersniped, but am pretty sure I'm capable of gaging a sieve after witnessing one on a consistent basis over an extended period of time.