ChiHawk21
Registered User
- Jan 15, 2011
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but keith and seabrook can still put up offensive numbers. hammer is about to fall off a cliff.
Confirmed with Link: Blackhawks trade Hjalmarsson to Arizona for Connor Murphy & Laurent Dauphin
- Thread starter GGGHawks18
- Start date
but keith and seabrook can still put up offensive numbers. hammer is about to fall off a cliff.
ColdSteel2
Registered User
- Aug 27, 2010
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Right. Hammer has nothing to fall back on. We've seen the best of Hammer, paid very little for it, ran him into the ground and yet still got a big young former 1st round Dman for him.
BK
"Goalie Apologist"
Hammer had a strong downturn in his play the last 1/4 of the season and in the playoffs. Is this his falloff? Not sure but I am ok with moving him if the FO thinks that he will drop off anytime in the next year (which is very possible).
LordKOTL
Abuse of Officials
Keith's defensive game has tanked since the 2015 playoffs--like 2011 tanked. It may not be his physical abilities, but his mental game and decision making have been bad--bad turnovers, blown coverage, and bad positioning that culminated in a playoff effort that made me think Deron Quint stole his uni.
Even if Hjammer couldn't age gracefully, he could play defense. Best case, Robocop is a clone of him and we're right back where we started.
Perfect situation is we bring in another D specialist before we lost Hjammer. Unfortunately we didn't. In the current case we gotta hope that Matt Guitar Murphy is everything we think he is, or Keith and Seabs remember how to play effectively behind the blueline...ideally both.
Keith and Seabs ideally should be the cornerstones of our defense, and the past couple of years they have been anything but. Having a 13th and 14th fwd is nice an all for the offensive side of the game, but all that means is that we have to start wining games 5-4 as opposed to 3-2--unless Crawford repeats his 2016 year and carries the D's carcasses yet again. Plus, you also have to figure that if Crawford has another career-average year (i.e. .918 like this past season), but our defense takes a hit, it's also gonna put pressure on the O to perform. From the FWDs, at best Saad for Hoss is a wash defensively (no help there), and Saad for Panarin is a wash offensively (no help there). Where does the extra O come from? Gambling on Saad sparkplugging Toews? Debrincat coming out of nowhere? Hayden? Kane assailing the league like 2016?
That's why Hjammer's loss worries me. Hjammer was our best defensive defenseman. Unless someone performs above their 2-year historical level I'm expecting a step back and our goalies seeing more rubber than the staring line for the Indy 500.
i thought of that when i mention trading hammer last summer and am worried of seabs for that same reason.
however as many posters already assume that maybe seabs can't be traded, b/c of his contract. i will then hope for a rebound from him, b/c he was not in shape last yr, b/c of his brand new baby.
this yr, is a yr for redemption for him. i hope.
b1e9a8r5s
Registered User
Keith wasn't bad defensively. There were more breakdowns than we've seen in the past and I would hope he could be a little better than he was last year this next season, but the 2nd team all-star defenseman was not bad defensively.
As for this postseason, everyone was so bad, I don't know how to make heads or tales of it and signle out any particular guys play. Not sure if that's the right way to handle it, but it's kind of where I'm at.
DisgruntledHawkFan
Blackhawk Down
This one hurts.
Have been holding off on posting about it because I've been out of town and kinda trying to avoid the reality of a Hawks team without #4.
I've been saying for a few years that Hammer's decline isn't going to be gradual. The way he plays the game? It's gonna be a switch flip and his body will start to fail him. Think it'll be sooner than later.
That said...
Gutted. LOVE Hammer. Guy's a total warrior. ****ing rock. Coyotes got a hell of a player. He's everything you want in a defensive defenseman. Gonna sting like hell the first time I watch him on the PK against the Hawks. Losing two of my all-time favorites in a week... Ugh.
Thanks for everything Hammer. Made 10's cup possible. Came in as a rookie and stabilized the second pairing with Soupy.
Murphy's a player. Good second pairing guy locked up for awhile at a reasonable cap hit. Hope he brings me around on losing Hammer.
Haven't seen a ton of Dauphin, but he seems like a bottom six guy. We'll see.
....Gutted.
Have been holding off on posting about it because I've been out of town and kinda trying to avoid the reality of a Hawks team without #4.
I've been saying for a few years that Hammer's decline isn't going to be gradual. The way he plays the game? It's gonna be a switch flip and his body will start to fail him. Think it'll be sooner than later.
That said...
Gutted. LOVE Hammer. Guy's a total warrior. ****ing rock. Coyotes got a hell of a player. He's everything you want in a defensive defenseman. Gonna sting like hell the first time I watch him on the PK against the Hawks. Losing two of my all-time favorites in a week... Ugh.
Thanks for everything Hammer. Made 10's cup possible. Came in as a rookie and stabilized the second pairing with Soupy.
Murphy's a player. Good second pairing guy locked up for awhile at a reasonable cap hit. Hope he brings me around on losing Hammer.
Haven't seen a ton of Dauphin, but he seems like a bottom six guy. We'll see.
....Gutted.
Blue Liner
Registered User
I think the greater point of this post is that you can feel both gutted as a fan about a player leaving but also understand that it may be the correct move. You're allowed to do both.
Cutting it down further, you can understand that even though it may be the right move long-term it may hurt your club short-term. Full agreement that went Hammer's game falls off it's going to likely be steep and fast. Will that be this upcoming season? Probably not. Season after? Eh...possible, but also likely not. At that point he's a UFA who is going to receive (assuming health/production) offers for substantially more money than he makes now regardless of his age and wear and tear. The Blackhawks were not going to be in the market (and they shouldn't be) to match that to keep him around.
The move sucks as a fan, but the timing was probably right, in my opinion, to pull this off and get a couple of assets for him before you lose him for nothing in two years. All the while, you may miss the window in the next two years where his game starts to fall off. May. Murphy is also a really, really nice piece coming back who is cost-controlled and younger. Admittedly don't know much about Dauphin.
As a fan, this one stings a lot. Hammer's one of the OG's. He's been here a long time and has given everything to this organization. He's been a rock and has had some clutch moments. On a personal note, Hjalmarsson's a big reason I got into scouting and hockey ops. I've been going to the prospect camps for a really long time, and his first prospect camp I saw him and said to myself "that guy is going to be really good for a really long time". I loved him, and I was with my dad and said that and told all of my friends "watch out for this guy, he's going to be a lock on this team's D core for a long time." It happened, and it made me look good (and feel good that I got it right), and it kinda lit the fire to try to get into that business and make a go of it. I'm hardly trying to say I was alone in feeling that way. The organization did the hard part and found him and drafted him, but my point is he in particular had a hand in a career and life choice on my part and served as an inspiration for that, so aside from just my Blackhawks fandom taking a hit, I have a personal connection with him in that way so it's just doubly tough to see him go after everything he's done for this club.
That first time seeing him in a different uniform in that first game against each other is going to be all kinds of suck.
LordKOTL
Abuse of Officials
Keith wasn't that good defensively, just saying. I'm still wondering how he managed to get 4th on the Norris charts (more proof that the media shouldn't vote for those awards). Hjammer was more often than not the one in position, taking his man, jamming up passes, etc. while Keith was questing.
I get that Keith has a massive O upside. But there's been a decline since 2013--much less playoffs 2015 in what he's brought (and in the 2015 playoffs he was an überbeast)--maybe not as out-there as Seabs decline has been up no matter how you slice it--Keith should be the one leading the defensive effort, and from where I sit it's been Hjammer taking on that mantle.
And yes, I'd like nothing better than an uptick from Keith at this point. Someone's gotta help out backend.
BobbyJet
The accountability era?
I know nothing of Connor Murphy but I do know the scouting reports list his physicality as a plus. Fingers crossed that Q doesn't turn him into yet another stick checker.
Conor Murphy sounds like a professional athlete I would see at a NY dive bar. Laurent Dauphin sounds like someone I would run into during New York Fashion Week.
JaegerDice
The mark of my dignity shall scar thy DNA
- Dec 26, 2014
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I'm just concerned he's not good enough at moving the puck out efficiently, which is the single most important skill for an NHL Dman.
For all the words typed about Hammer's shot-blocking and whatnot, his greatest strength was defusing pressure with quick, 5-10 foot passes through the Dzone to our forwards. If Murphy is going to be taking on the tougher assignments (which I assume is the plan, because Seabrook sure as hell isn't/cant), then he needs to be able to get the puck out of the zone quickly and intelligently.
That said, his play internationally has been better than his play on the Coyotes. But much of that was in his younger days. So has he plateaued, or does he have another level he can reach with better players? We shall see.
Big risk though. By the GAR metric, we gave up our best Dman for this kid. That's a hell of a hail mary.
For all the words typed about Hammer's shot-blocking and whatnot, his greatest strength was defusing pressure with quick, 5-10 foot passes through the Dzone to our forwards. If Murphy is going to be taking on the tougher assignments (which I assume is the plan, because Seabrook sure as hell isn't/cant), then he needs to be able to get the puck out of the zone quickly and intelligently.
That said, his play internationally has been better than his play on the Coyotes. But much of that was in his younger days. So has he plateaued, or does he have another level he can reach with better players? We shall see.
Big risk though. By the GAR metric, we gave up our best Dman for this kid. That's a hell of a hail mary.
BK
"Goalie Apologist"
From what I have seen, he is fine at moving the puck. Again I think people will be suprised by Murphy.
BK
"Goalie Apologist"
Do you think Hammer's fall off in the last quarter of the season and playoffs is going to continue going forward or do you think it was a blip on the radar?
hard to say. he has been ridden like a horse to the point of frothing --- that is, he has been a warrior that plays hard, blocks pucks, and gets his body pounded... and has done so very well and w/o complaint. he was a GREAT Hawk. That said, perhaps the horse has little left (or, at least, less in the tank than needed to play at his old level). or... perhaps it was just that he was wore out last year and will re-coup. I think it is more the latter than the former and the Hammer people will see next year will be more like the hammer of old (perhaps not quite that good, but close) and clearly better than the Hammer of the last 6-8 weeks of last season.
JaegerDice
The mark of my dignity shall scar thy DNA
- Dec 26, 2014
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I think it will likely continue, though I don't know at what pace. Some say his style of play will make it very rapid, and that's a valid hypothesis.
But my issue is that the Blackhawks are still supposedly in win now mode, and the window is only 2 or 3 more years. If it takes Murphy 2-3 years to reach Hammer level (and he may, Hammer was up and down before becoming a rock in 2013... people forget), does that help us if Keith and Seabrook have fallen off to the point where contention is over?
If the Murphy trade is an admission that the window is going to close for a few years while they try to rebuild on the fly for another push when Kane and Toews are 30-32 or so, so be it.... but I don't think that's the case, cause if it were, they'd be fine with missing the playoffs (which they may). But I dont think they'd be fine with that.... at all. I think they're trying to have their cake and eat it too, and the team got weaker as a result of being pulled in too directions (short term gain vs long term cost certainty).
BobbyJet
The accountability era?
Yes, no doubt he was ridden like a horse by Q and players do uncharacteristic things when they're fatigued. If his ice time is reasonable he should be better than he was for Hawks in recent times.... and I'm talking mainly about give-aways. They were too frequent this past season in Chicago.
clydesdale line
Connor BeJesus
- Jan 10, 2012
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I think Dauphin will be a pleasant surprise. Kid's game and numbers in his first taste (30 games or so) are similar to Danault. Has alot of bite to his game too to match the speed. If he is a solid on faceoffs, he'll be a very valuable bottom 6 player.
ColdSteel2
Registered User
- Aug 27, 2010
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b1e9a8r5s
Registered User
JaegerDice
The mark of my dignity shall scar thy DNA
- Dec 26, 2014
- 25,560
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You need useful bottom 6 pieces, yes.
Desi wasn't good this season. He actually was pretty good the season before hand as far as underlying numbers, he just didn't produce and likely never will.
And he was a forechecking, puck-winning terror in 2015.
Marotte Marauder
Registered User
- Aug 10, 2008
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Man I remember way too many absolutely uncatchable passes made by Hammer, along with chip outs high off the glass.
so if no trade happen, no movement on either hammer and seabs and they continue to do poorly. the end results will still be an early exit. so in other words, with you it is damn if the hawks do and damn if they don't examples.
i would rather roll the dice with the youngins.
BobbyJet
The accountability era?
That's Keith you're describing. Hammer is more of a dumper than a passer. Recently the number of turnovers were sometimes Oduyaesq.
