Post-Game Talk: Big win in the Big Apple.

[therealkoho]

It's so crazy that Matthews has been disappointing this year, yet here we stand with him having 21 goals in 26 games. A 66 goal pace....

Scoring in bunches can make a season look a lot better than it is.

Matthews should have a goal every game as long as he gets 3 position A chances per game. Hattys are all well and good, and the more the merrier, but steady production and a consistent level of play is preferable.

 

[Evilhomer]

What makes you think that?

First place means an opening series against a very average wild card team - NYI, Pittsburgh, Detroit, Tampa, etc. I think that will be important for getting off on the right foot in the playoffs.

 

[notbias]

Analytics nightmare yet we just keep piling up points.

Past regime didn't have the league figured out like they thought. Winning in hockey can't be formulated (more playoff specific sentence). You either just have it or you don't. Leafs seem to be moving closer to being that team that will end the game with the W no matter what happened, in contrast to all those games where the stats show we should have won but ended up golfing early instead.

Haven't all the recent winners been analytic darlings?

Gregor on the top line didn't look out of place.
He covers a lot of ice. First one in on the forecheck, and first one back on D.

I thought he looked clueless with the puck... he reminds me a lot of Kapanen... has a lot of advantages but his IQ will hold him back.

 

[Gary Nylund]

First place means an opening series against a very average wild card team - NYI, Pittsburgh, Detroit, Tampa, etc. I think that will be important for getting off on the right foot in the playoffs.

Fair enough. I don't think it matters much myself considering our history of losing to teams that we should easily beat. IMO how we do in the playoffs will depend far more on how close we can come to playing to our potential, than who our opponent is.

 

[therealkoho]

Honestly, this TEAM is just getting better and better. Such a gutsy performance, both tonight and last night. Battling a slew of injuries and illnesses and it's just a next man up situation and the guys are delivering the goods.

Benoit, Lagesson, Kampf, Domi, Bertuzzi and Gregor have been outstanding signings from management.

With a couple of pieces at the deadline, this team can do some damage.

A lot of DFC have gone on all year about how we are worst this season, compared to last and complained about not signing the likes of Schenn and especially Gustafsson. I've not been impressed with either of those two guys in the last few games.

They are probably right, that we aren't as talented as last year. However, from what I'm seeing, we are a much better team. Really close knit. Guys seem to know their role.

It may just be a coincidence we signed Reeves and are now looking like a better TEAM. But who knows?

I was thinking this last night even while they were getting jumped on a bit in the second.

They can suddenly roll 4 lines that can all keep play in the oppositions end more often than their own.

The big boys seem to all have their games together and are clicking on a dominant level.

The defence looks pretty settled in and are playing with confidence in their own zone. Maybe it's just me but suddenly they look more physical, they seem to be leaning harder on guys who come to the net front. They all seem to be finishing their checks with purpose.

I doubt it will happen, but I feel with Liljegren coming back soon, maybe as soon as Christmas. Treliving might want to see what's available for Brodie and a couple of other pieces for an upgrade on the blueline.

This team looks like a team that could do some serious damage if they're fully committed to it.

 

[MilkofthePoppy]

I actually quite like the Islander fanbase. Same with the Habs fanbase. I love passionate fans.

 

[Evilhomer]

Fair enough. I don't think it matters much myself considering our history of losing to teams that we should easily beat. IMO how we do in the playoffs will depend far more on how close we can come to playing to our potential, than who our opponent is.

I think it's a mistake to look at past iterations of this team as a predictor for the current iteration. The core players are different people today than they were then (other than maybe Tavares, whose maturity probably hasn't changed between then and now). The quality of goaltending, assuming a healthy Woll, is an upgrade over years past. The supporting cast is infinitely better from a playoff perspective. It is a combination of what Dubas built, the patience to keep most of it in place, and the improvements that Treliving has made.

 

[LeafParade]

I thought he looked clueless with the puck... he reminds me a lot of Kapanen... has a lot of advantages but his IQ will hold him back.

He was just confused because he had linemates that he could pass the puck to.
It is quite simple on the 4th line, 1- Take Puck, 2 - Ignore Useless linemates, 3 - Skate past everyone down the wing & shoot

 

[Gary Nylund]

I think it's a mistake to look at past iterations of this team as a predictor for the current iteration. The core players are different people today than they were then (other than maybe Tavares, whose maturity probably hasn't changed between then and now). The quality of goaltending, assuming a healthy Woll, is an upgrade over years past. The supporting cast is infinitely better from a playoff perspective. It is a combination of what Dubas built, the patience to keep most of it in place, and the improvements that Treliving has made.

I call BS on the bolded. What, Reaves?

I see no reason to assume the core is any different than in previous years.

I like Woll but goaltending is a question mark, same as last season.

The defence is worse than it was, if for no other reason than the decline of our again warriors Brodie and Gio.

The forwards are perhaps slightly better overall when compared to the last season before the TDL.

We traded away a ton of futures at the TDL, if we are willing to trade away the bulk of the last precious few futures assets we have left, then maybe we can add the equivalent of ROR/Schenn at the TDL. I doubt Tre will be willing to practically empty out the cupboards like but even if he does, the team is at best, roughly on par with the team that got crushed by Florida.

He was just confused because he had linemates that he could pass the puck to.
It is quite simple on the 4th line, 1- Take Puck, 2 - Ignore Useless linemates, 3 - Skate past everyone down the wing & shoot

They should be double shifting Nylander every now and then and telling him to do exactly this.

 

[Evilhomer]

I call BS on the bolded. What, Reaves?

I see no reason to assume the core is any different than in previous years.

I like Woll but goaltending is a question mark, same as last season.

The defence is worse than it was, if for no other reason than the decline of our again warriors Brodie and Gio.

The forwards are perhaps slightly better overall when compared to the last season before the TDL.

We traded away a ton of futures at the TDL, if we are willing to trade away the bulk of the last precious few futures assets we have left, then maybe we can add the equivalent of ROR/Schenn at the TDL. I doubt Tre will be willing to practically empty out the cupboards like but even if he does, the team is at best, roughly on par with the team that got crushed by Florida.

You have disagreed with me throughout, so I can respect maintaining that position now. We will all see how it plays out. I saw signs of an incomplete picture in the first 10 or 15 games of the season while most others were losing their heads. I still see an incomplete picture now, but I can also see that with only two additions, a top 4 defenseman and a third line centre, this will be one of the top two or three teams in the league, marked now with a maturity that they have not had in the past.

 

[PROUD PAPA]

Anyone else notice the Rags seemed extra physical with Jarnkrok? I didn't notice him doing anything that would draw their ire so I wonder if something is lingering from years gone bye. He just seemed like such an unlikely target when we have more effective weapons to concentrate on.

 

[Gary Nylund]

You have disagreed with me throughout, so I can respect maintaining that position now. We will all see how it plays out. I saw signs of an incomplete picture in the first 10 or 15 games of the season while most others were losing their heads. I still see an incomplete picture now, but I can also see that with only two additions, a top 4 defenseman and a third line centre, this will be one of the top two or three teams in the league, marked now with a maturity that they have not had in the past.

What makes you think they have "a maturity that they have not had in the past"?

Add those two pieces will cost a lot of futures and even then, like I said, we'll be similar to last years team. Top two or three team is something we've never been, not in the regular season and most definitely, not in the playoffs. I admire your optimism though.

 

[Maple Leaf]

Life is good

- Future

 

[Madap]

Anyone else out there who wants to show Leaf fans in an adult way?

Sure. As an adult, I thought that

Islanders are shit.
Rangers are pretty good.

 

[HolyCrap]

I was wondering if you were in a food coma by the end of the game

I was struggling by the late third not gonna lie.

 

[keonsbitterness]

TOR-NYR 12-12-23, a game which go down in the annals of history as our "flu game" a la Michael Jordan.

Or maybe not.

 

[Jojalu]

Not sure what you mean by I'm "coming around". I'm just an objective observer, it's the team that's hopefully coming around. As of now they're 12th overall in regulation hockey PTS% and because they've run super hot in gimmicks, they're 5th overall by PTS%.

You seem to be obsessed with 1st place, I'm far more interested in how they do in the playoffs. That's also why I consider regulation PTS% to be far more meaningful than the one they use to determine the standings - there are no gimmicks in playoffs, just regulation hockey thankfully and regulation PTS% is a far more accurate measure of how good the team is at playing hockey.

12th overall is anything but impressive, but it's better than where they were a few weeks ago so let's hope they keep improving.

Tampa kind of sucks this season, no reason to be more worried about them than other potential opponents that I can think of.

You keep mentioning the playoffs as regulation hockey. Games go to OT in the playoffs. All we know is that the Leafs very rarely lose in regulation, or win in regulation.

Maybe 5v5 in OT, they are great. Like Florida last year, or Montreal in 93.

They have 100% shown it is difficult to beat them in "regulation"

 

[Evilhomer]

You keep mentioning the playoffs as regulation hockey. Games go to OT in the playoffs. All we know is that the Leafs very rarely lose in regulation, or win in regulation.

Maybe 5v5 in OT, they are great. Like Florida last year, or Montreal in 93.

They have 100% shown it is difficult to beat them in "regulation"

Also the best comeback team in the NHL this season. What everyone sees as a weakness - going to OT - is actually a strength. This version of the Leafs is the Mike Myers of the NHL - impossible to kill.

 

[darrylsittler27]

Dubas couldn’t save himself here so in Pitts it’s going to be impossible

Oldest team in the league.

First place means an opening series against a very average wild card team - NYI, Pittsburgh, Detroit, Tampa, etc. I think that will be important for getting off on the right foot in the playoffs.

Yeah Boston found out about how well first in the East does. Historically first in the East is bad plus crappy draft pick.

 

[barilko05]

Jones was solid last night. Not sure why everyone is so quick judge goalies on the AHL stats. It's been proven time and again that NHL calibre goalies tend to struggle in the A because its not as predictable as the Show, and vice versa. Granted, Jones isn't the second coming of Johnny Bower, but he's also not Garrett Sparks either. His play last night was way more indicative of his NHL worth than a few games in the minors behind a porous D. I'm satisfied he'll be a good stop gap in situations like last night.

 

[Community]

Jones was solid last night. Not sure why everyone is so quick judge goalies on the AHL stats. It's been proven time and again that NHL calibre goalies tend to struggle in the A because its not as predictable as the Show, and vice versa. Granted, Jones isn't the second coming of Johnny Bower, but he's also not Garrett Sparks either. His play last night was way more indicative of his NHL worth than a few games in the minors behind a porous D. I'm satisfied he'll be a good stop gap in situations like last night.

I'm glad he played well enough to get the win last night, but let's be honest here.

People aren't worried/judging him on his AHL stats as much as his 5 consecutive years where he posted a save percentage of .900 or lower.

I hope he keeps things together until Woll is back and gives us a chance to win the games he plays in, but I'm not considering him NHL quality until he shows some consistent quality play. He's a vet 3rd stinger that you don't want to see playing consistently.

 

[thusk]

Kyle’s team is going down the toilet

right now being 1st leafs would have good chance to face one of new jersey, carolina or tampa in 1st round

finishing 1st would change nothing

 

[conFABulator]

I call BS on the bolded. What, Reaves?

I see no reason to assume the core is any different than in previous years.

I like Woll but goaltending is a question mark, same as last season.

The defence is worse than it was, if for no other reason than the decline of our again warriors Brodie and Gio.

The forwards are perhaps slightly better overall when compared to the last season before the TDL.

We traded away a ton of futures at the TDL, if we are willing to trade away the bulk of the last precious few futures assets we have left, then maybe we can add the equivalent of ROR/Schenn at the TDL. I doubt Tre will be willing to practically empty out the cupboards like but even if he does, the team is at best, roughly on par with the team that got crushed by Florida.

I think the team is better than the pre-TDL team from last year.

Before we get to the supporting cast, I think Matthews, Nylander and Rielly are much better than they were last year and Tavares and Marner are pretty close to what we got from them in the first 25 games of last year. A bit more from JT and maybe a bit less from MM...so far.

I do agree that age is taking something out of Brodie and Gio's games but that might be exposed by three too six dmen being hurt.

However,

Bertuzzi s better than Bunting
Domi is better than Kerfoot
Knies is better than Engvall
McCabe is better than Holl
Will is better than Murray
I think Lagesson or Benoit is at least equal to what Sandin gave us.

We do have cap space for a bit add, but you are right that we don't want to keep giving away too assets.

A second and Timmins could get us Tanev and (if he is healthy) that changes the D pairings.

Rielly Tanev
McCabe Liljegren
Giordano Brodie
Benoit Lagesson

(With the bottom four ensuring we load manage the two vets)

We still need to solve 3C but maybe the answer their is a bottom six of

Jarnkrok Kampf Gregor
Robertson Domi TDL pickup

Makes sense. We lean on the Kampf line more for matchups and d-zone starts and shelter the fourth line?

Not perfect, but I do think better than last year.

 

[Gary Nylund]

You keep mentioning the playoffs as regulation hockey. Games go to OT in the playoffs. All we know is that the Leafs very rarely lose in regulation, or win in regulation.

Maybe 5v5 in OT, they are great. Like Florida last year, or Montreal in 93.

They have 100% shown it is difficult to beat them in "regulation"

12th overall so far. Why would they be mediocre in 5on5 when it's not OT, and great in 5on5 when it is OT?

I think the team is better than the pre-TDL team from last year.

Before we get to the supporting cast, I think Matthews, Nylander and Rielly are much better than they were last year and Tavares and Marner are pretty close to what we got from them in the first 25 games of last year. A bit more from JT and maybe a bit less from MM...so far.

I do agree that age is taking something out of Brodie and Gio's games but that might be exposed by three too six dmen being hurt.

However,

Bertuzzi s better than Bunting
Domi is better than Kerfoot
Knies is better than Engvall
McCabe is better than Holl
Will is better than Murray
I think Lagesson or Benoit is at least equal to what Sandin gave us.

We do have cap space for a bit add, but you are right that we don't want to keep giving away too assets.

A second and Timmins could get us Tanev and (if he is healthy) that changes the D pairings.

Rielly Tanev
McCabe Liljegren
Giordano Brodie
Benoit Lagesson

(With the bottom four ensuring we load manage the two vets)

We still need to solve 3C but maybe the answer their is a bottom six of

Jarnkrok Kampf Gregor
Robertson Domi TDL pickup

Makes sense. We lean on the Kampf line more for matchups and d-zone starts and shelter the fourth line?

Not perfect, but I do think better than last year.

If we're better than last year, why aren't we seeing it on the ice? IIRC we had a bunch of Dmen injured last November, and we were still winning like crazy. This season the only major blow is Liljegren. Gio's OK but he's nowhere near what he once was and Klinberg sucked anyway, Lagesson and Benoit have stepped in and played well, probably no worse than Gio/Klingberg would have played so our D is hardly decimated.

I don't really care that much, I've been saying the same thing I've been saying for years - we'll cruise to the playoffs, and see what happens then. I sure hope that if we are "better", we start showing it on the ice at some point because we're 12th overall in regulation hockey at this point which doesn't inspire confidence. It looks to me much the same team we've seen for many years, capable of playing with the best of them when they're on, but also capable of playing poorly and losing to inferior teams.

I think many people have a habit of overrating this team and it's players. I must have read hundreds of posts in the summer predicting 120 points for Marner and 1st overall for the team. I was one of the people saying neither is likely to happen and while I hope as I do every year that this is the season where we go deep in the playoffs, I don't see any reason to expect that to happen either. You never though, miracles do happen, we'll just have to wait and see.

 

[Jojalu]

12th overall so far. Why would they be mediocre in 5on5 when it's not OT, and great in 5on5 when it is OT?


If we're better than last year, why aren't we seeing it on the ice? IIRC we had a bunch of Dmen injured last November, and we were still winning like crazy. This season the only major blow is Liljegren. Gio's OK but he's nowhere near what he once was and Klinberg sucked anyway, Lagesson and Benoit have stepped in and played well, probably no worse than Gio/Klingberg would have played so our D is hardly decimated.

I don't really care that much, I've been saying the same thing I've been saying for years - we'll cruise to the playoffs, and see what happens then. I sure hope that if we are "better", we start showing it on the ice at some point because we're 12th overall in regulation hockey at this point which doesn't inspire confidence. It looks to me much the same team we've seen for many years, capable of playing with the best of them when they're on, but also capable of playing poorly and losing to inferior teams.

I think many people have a habit of overrating this team and it's players. I must have read hundreds of posts in the summer predicting 120 points for Marner and 1st overall for the team. I was one of the people saying neither is likely to happen and while I hope as I do every year that this is the season where we go deep in the playoffs, I don't see any reason to expect that to happen either. You never though, miracles do happen, we'll just have to wait and see.

12th of of 32 teams is not mediocre. Plus you know full well that in OT during the playoffs anything can happem. They can get badly outplayed and win, just as easily as they can outplay someone and lose.