Bettman meeting with Ryan Smith, owner of Utah Jazz and Real Salt Lake (upd: Smith asks NHL to open expansion process)

[GKJ]

Yes and no, if the arena vote fails, the Coyotes CAN stay in Mullet for another 2 or 3 seasons. Obviously the faster they get out of there and into an NHL building the better.

But the two main things are:
#1 - When it comes to the Coyotes, people report on/comment on WHAT THEY WANT to happen more than what's actually happening. And in this case, the NHL commissioner meeting with the NBA Utah Jazz owner... easily could be these two media members doing that: "It must be about the Coyotes! Because we don't like the Coyotes existence!"

#2 - If the Tempe arena plan fails, is owning a team somewhere else, or being a TENANT in someone else's arena something that Meruelo is interested in?

The Thrashers moved quickly because it was obvious that no owner wanted to be a TENANT. Meruelo -- like the Islanders -- were totally willing to suffer through a bad arena situation temporarily if solving the arena/lease problem with a 30+ year ideal solution was possible.

Given how LAST round of expansion amid Coyotes uncertainty went -- rumors of Markham/Quebec, then Portland/Seattle, then Vegas out of left field before the NHL expanded to Vegas and Seattle; and now we have Atlanta/Houston rumors... it seems like the NHL does a "barnstorming for interest" lap every decade to NBA/untapped markets to gauge interest and options. Which is smart.

This reeks to me of the kind of thing that happens in college conference realignment. You see reports all the time about how the Big East and Gonzaga had a conversation. Yeah, every good AD is making calls once or twice a year to see (a) what options could be available to them (b) what they need to do to get better consideration and (c) scheduling opportunities.

It's just SMART for the NHL to know where every NBA owner stands in regards to:
- buying an NHL team via expansion
- buying an NHL team via relocation
- sharing their arena with an NHL team via cooperation/minority ownership swapping

And vice versa.

It wasn’t completely about an escape route for the Coyotes, they discussed Smith at length (after to my knowledge never being floated before). They just noted that it can’t be ignored because there’s a possibility that if this May vote fails, that it will be a legitimate possibly that it will be the end. We do know there’s others out there, but only this person was there real reporting on. That didn’t even really happen when Atlanta and Houston were being floated. Only that Atlanta being the home of Turner isn’t necessarily a coincidence when it came to that.

And, yes, these owners are willing to deal with arena issues provided there is interest and a viable path to one to it being resolved - something that had once already happened. However, none of those situations had the Islanders, or anyone, in a building that they saw as unsuitable for an indefinite amount of time, and none of them weren’t paying rent for a building to max out at 3500. We know, and it’s been reliably reported on, that there are owners who are upset about this current arrangement but deal with it because it’s temporary.

I don’t know what other plans may be out there, but this one was supposed to be 3, now is at least 4. If they come to find out they’re starting over, you’re talking 5 or 6 until you can even think about being inside the building, and that’s definitely enough time to re-expand later on because Vegas and Seattle didn’t need that long, nor would anyone else.

The last round of expansion, it happened because they had owners and buildings. When Vegas came in, they were the only ones to apply, because they were the only ones with both. That wasn’t even what the NHL expected, they thought Seattle and Vegas would come in at the same time.

 

[KevFu]

And, yes, these owners are willing to deal with arena issues provided there is interest and a viable path to one to it being resolved - something that had once already happened. However, none of those situations had the Islanders, or anyone, in a building that they saw as unsuitable for an indefinite amount of time, and none of them weren’t paying rent for a building to max out at 3500. We know, and it’s been reliably reported on, that there are owners who are upset about this current arrangement but deal with it because it’s temporary.

I don’t know what other plans may be out there, but this one was supposed to be 3, now is at least 4. If they come to find out they’re starting over, you’re talking 5 or 6 until you can even think about being inside the building, and that’s definitely enough time to re-expand later on because Vegas and Seattle didn’t need that long, nor would anyone else.

The last round of expansion, it happened because they had owners and buildings. When Vegas came in, they were the only ones to apply, because they were the only ones with both. That wasn’t even what the NHL expected, they thought Seattle and Vegas would come in at the same time.

I agree with most of that -- however the Islanders capacity wasn't quite 3,500 low.... but it was closer to about 9000 good seats. No one cared because that arena had SUITES and pro-sports infrastructure that a college hockey arena just doesn't have. It's that last part that has the other owners upset.

The last round of expansion happened because there were owners and buildings, but the NHL BARNSTORMED to the find interest. They had 16 East, 14 West... and Quebec/Markham parties interested for teams 31 and 32... so they started talking to Houston, Portland, Seattle and Vegas and found two to bite.

Now we hear that Atlanta is interested and Quebec is still there... and there's western barnstorming again.

The Coyotes situation exists, and there needs to be a Plan B, and a Plan C. But the barnstorming would probably exist if the Coyotes had somehow already opened a new Tempe Arena. That was my overall point.

 

[StreetHawk]

Yeah, but that's just the interstate corridor (and you know, mountains). SLC has grown along the interstate that goes south to Provo.





That's most likely the best reason for Bettman and the Jazz ownership to meet.

Building an arena for the Olympic Games, it's GOING to be able to fit an NHL team because it's got to fit OLYMPIC ICE FIRST. What happens NEXT is the next question.




I got the joke, and liked it because the IOC being notoriously corrupt. But I didn't know who was aware of the "someone take the games please" trend going on.

Arenas like the Miami Heat don’t have permanent ice machine but have portable ones for any ice shows over a 3-4 day stretch.

Olympic venues don’t need to fit 18k unobstructed seats. Maybe it ends up like Barclays if there isn’t a guarantee that an nhl team will be arriving so that the remaining good seats of like 13k is what is available during the Games.

Each city or owner of the building is going to build it to fit their needs. Whether it needs to accommodate an nhl team full time has a big impact on the design and cost of the arena.

We are realistically looking at around 3 years from now in 2026 when a final decision on the design has to be finalized so that they can move forward with all of the red tape, financing and construction.

 

[SImpelton]

I’ve said for a while now that Utah absolutely should be a longterm expansion target for the NHL. It’s rapidly growing and very wealthy with a solid winter sports tradition. Only real downsides to it is that it’s still on the small side, for now, and geographically their market is very long and narrow, making a lot of the fanbase a trek and a half away from a game.

But Jazz fanbase is rock solid, and I have no doubt that the NHL would absolutely work there. Would love for them to be the Utah Yellowjackets, but that would be a tad too repetitive to have two jackets squads in the NHL. Probably something else bee-related, promoting the Grizzlies name (although with the Memphis Grizzlies I’m not sure if there are any hiccups with an NBA owner owning a major pro team in another league with a potential rival’s name), or something else with a double z.

Utah Gulls.

 

[SImpelton]

So we heard a rumor about Atlanta and Houston; and now we hear about Utah. Quebec remains.

And each of those cities fall into one of the four regions our divisions are configured in. Hmmm.

I have to think that if Quebec had a legitimate shot, it would have happened by now. I fully get wanting a return of hockey in a traditional hockey city, but I'm all but positive that the biggest obstacle to this happening was, is, and will remain the Habs. They are not going to just give up their control of the province. They only allowed it last time because of the WHL merger, because the league put pressure on them to do so, that exact situation is never going to repeat.

 

[BB79]

I have to think that if Quebec had a legitimate shot, it would have happened by now. I fully get wanting a return of hockey in a traditional hockey city, but I'm all but positive that the biggest obstacle to this happening was, is, and will remain the Habs. They are not going to just give up their control of the province. They only allowed it last time because of the WHL merger, because the league put pressure on them to do so, that exact situation is never going to repeat.

Quebec has a new 18k seat turnkey arena. If they'll let AZ play in a college arena then no excuses. Just need the ownership...and screw Montreal, they don't own the province.

 

[End on a Hinote]

Quebec has a new 18k seat turnkey arena. If they'll let AZ play in a college arena then no excuses. Just need the ownership...and screw Montreal, they don't own the province.

It's not that simple. Granted I understand the logistics of hockey business about as well as I grasp advanced nuclear science, but simply having a feasible arena in a reasonable sized hockey market is only scratching the surface of what is needed.

Between the time of the Jets return and the announcement of a new 18k seat arena in QC I was all but convinced that there would have been an 8th Canadian team by now.

Unfortunately, I can't see it happening anymore. Especially with all the interest in several major US markets that didn't exist 10 years ago.

 

[BB79]

It's not that simple. Granted I understand the logistics of hockey business about as well as I grasp advanced nuclear science, but simply having a feasible arena in a reasonable sized hockey market is only scratching the surface of what is needed.

Between the time of the Jets return and the announcement of a new 18k seat arena in QC I was all but convinced that there would have been an 8th Canadian team by now.

Unfortunately, I can't see it happening anymore. Especially with all the interest in several major US markets that didn't exist 10 years ago.

I'll hold out hope. I'd love to see both Quebec and Hartford back, time will tell. The Rangers absorbed the Hartford market by putting their AHL team there, but there's still a lot of local support for the Whalers. Their AHL team plays in the Whalers old home, Whalers banners still hang in the rafters. Probably a lot more of a pipe dream to see the Whale ever return.

I wonder if Bettman is willing to give up Arizona at this point given that Vegas is a roaring success and I think Salt Lake would be too. Give up one but gain 2 really solid markets? He would be a fool to not jump on that. If they do allow another western expansion it opens the door for an eastern expansion too. That's when it could get interesting

 

[Ted Hoffman]

I'll hold out hope. I'd love to see both Quebec and Hartford back, time will tell. The Rangers absorbed the Hartford market by putting their AHL team there, but there's still a lot of local support for the Whalers. Their AHL team plays in the Whalers old home, Whalers banners still hang in the rafters. Probably a lot more of a pipe dream to see the Whale ever return.

Hartford still doesn't have a suitable arena. If you've been there, you know exactly why.

I wonder if Bettman is willing to give up Arizona at this point

Just going to stop here and repeat, for the 24,007th time, Gary Bettman isn't what's keeping a team in Arizona. As long as someone is willing to own and operate the team in the Greater Phoenix area and incur whatever losses are generated, that franchise will remain in the Greater Phoenix area. When no owner wants to own and operate a team there, then the franchise will move.

It is that simple. Even more simple than every conspiracy theory I've seen here about Bettman keeping a team in Arizona for whatever imagined reason.

 

[mouser]

I'll hold out hope. I'd love to see both Quebec and Hartford back, time will tell. The Rangers absorbed the Hartford market by putting their AHL team there, but there's still a lot of local support for the Whalers. Their AHL team plays in the Whalers old home, Whalers banners still hang in the rafters. Probably a lot more of a pipe dream to see the Whale ever return.

I wonder if Bettman is willing to give up Arizona at this point given that Vegas is a roaring success and I think Salt Lake would be too. Give up one but gain 2 really solid markets? He would be a fool to not jump on that. If they do allow another western expansion it opens the door for an eastern expansion too. That's when it could get interesting

Salt Lake City would be far and away the smallest MSA (metropolitan statistical area) with both the NBA and NHL at 1.2m population. I believe the current smallest MSA with both the NHL and NBA is Denver at 3m population—2.5x larger.

While Denver also has MLB and NFL, the biggest issue for smaller markets like SLC is the NBA and NHL season overlap. It’s the same reason why we’re unlikely to see the NBA return to NHL cities like Buffalo, Pittsburgh, or added to Nashville. Nor will we see new NHL teams in cities with NBA teams like Cleveland and Indianapolis.

 

[voyageur]

I'll hold out hope. I'd love to see both Quebec and Hartford back, time will tell. The Rangers absorbed the Hartford market by putting their AHL team there, but there's still a lot of local support for the Whalers. Their AHL team plays in the Whalers old home, Whalers banners still hang in the rafters. Probably a lot more of a pipe dream to see the Whale ever return.

I wonder if Bettman is willing to give up Arizona at this point given that Vegas is a roaring success and I think Salt Lake would be too. Give up one but gain 2 really solid markets? He would be a fool to not jump on that. If they do allow another western expansion it opens the door for an eastern expansion too. That's when it could get interesting

I don't think there will be another team in Canada for some time. I imagine the Canadian division and Covid divisions didn't appeal to every owner, which makes any change difficult. Hartford will never get another NHL team, but you'll get to see their jerseys make the occasional appearance for nostalgia's sake.

The NHL has to have a contingency plan if the Coyotes can't secure an NHL arena. If nothing else talking with Smith gives another option or some pressure on Fertitta, and the pressure gets amped up on Meruelo and Tempe to deliver an arena. There's probably a 2 year framework to work with, I'd be surprised if the NHL stuck it out 3 more years at Mullet. It's not a good look for a professional sports league in a market that has been struggling for quite some time. It would definitely be a scramble to find a new arena site and get it built within 2 years, if there is no resolution with lawsuits, and the current plan is nixed.

Expansion is a smaller piece of the pie for many owners. If you don't have markets that are guaranteed successes. The NHL does its homework now on expanding, it's become more strategic under Bettman. Both Vegas and Seattle were carefully chosen, and the courting period was extensive.

You can't really discern anything out of a preliminary meeting, but it does seem like the NHL is exploring what's out there, in terms of interest in the league.

 

[SImpelton]

Quebec has a new 18k seat turnkey arena. If they'll let AZ play in a college arena then no excuses. Just need the ownership...and screw Montreal, they don't own the province.

I don't want to deny you your hopium, but if you have a choice between trying to make one of the richest and most influential franchises split its market share when it has no incentive to do so, or expand literally anywhere else where this isn't a problem, it's not much of a choice really.

This is obviously the same problem that exists with Hamilton/GTA2

Canada's in a really wonky situation where the populous areas are populous and everywhere else really isn't. There really isn't an underserved Canadian metro right now, if you assume that Quebec City is already Habs country for the most part. Right now all the major metro areas in Canada have an NHL team. Frankly, even as it is, Canada is OVER-represented in the NHL. About a quarter of NHL teams are Canadian, but if you compare populations and economic strength of metro areas between the US and Canada, it's more like 9 or 10 to 1.

 

[canuckfan75]

I hate to bring this up. but there is a very good chance that Bettman and Ryan Smith is him owning the Houston Expansion team. I wonder if Oakview might build a new arena in the Houston area after they complete the Las Vegas NBA Arena

The NHL does not put teams in smaller markets that have a NBA Team

also Smith was in the running to buy the Penguins so he is very open to owning a team outside of Utah.

his partner at Real Salt Lakes owns numerous teams in different cities. the 76ers and Devils

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

I hate to bring this up. but there is a very good chance that Bettman and Ryan Smith is him owning the Houston Expansion team. I wonder if Oakview might build a new arena in the Houston area after they complete the Las Vegas NBA Arena

WHY would Ryan Smith buy the Jazz then, canuck..... Utah then needs an owner, not likely when Fertitta has the rights to both arenas in Houston: between the Toyota Center and the University of Houston.... which is called the Fertitta Center

 

[canuckfan75]

Watch out for Oakview in Houston is all I am going to say

they solve arena problems for the NHL

 

[StreetHawk]

Watch out for Oakview in Houston is all I am going to say

they solve arena problems for the NHL

City/ county owns the Toyota Center. I doubt the city would Greenlight another arena. Would have to be another county that does that.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

Watch out for Oakview in Houston is all I am going to say

they solve arena problems for the NHL

nope, where's the 3rd arena going to go in Harris County, canuck..... you've essentially got two arenas there between Toyota Center and Fertitta Center, and 1 operator of both arenas...... if there's a 3rd arena..... it likely won't be in Harris County

 

[BKIslandersFan]

I'll hold out hope. I'd love to see both Quebec and Hartford back, time will tell. The Rangers absorbed the Hartford market by putting their AHL team there, but there's still a lot of local support for the Whalers. Their AHL team plays in the Whalers old home, Whalers banners still hang in the rafters. Probably a lot more of a pipe dream to see the Whale ever return.

I wonder if Bettman is willing to give up Arizona at this point given that Vegas is a roaring success and I think Salt Lake would be too. Give up one but gain 2 really solid markets? He would be a fool to not jump on that. If they do allow another western expansion it opens the door for an eastern expansion too. That's when it could get interesting

HArtford is never happening. Hartford is a dying city.

Phoenix is too big of a market to NHL to just give up. I mean there is going to be a limit eventually and NHL will move them if there is no other choice like Atlanta. But Vegas success is irrelevant to Arizona.

 

[Headshot77]

Salt Lake City would be a horrible place for a team. Even an emergency relocation of the Coyotes.

The Great Salt Lake may be dry in as little as 5 years. The dry lakebed will expose tons of toxic pollutants such as Arsenic and make the air quality uninhabitably poor. Many of the cities major industries are dependent on the lake and nothing is being done to curtail the overuse and divergence of all of the river away from the lake.

In short, Salt Lake City is completely f***ed and I don't have any faith in the area being saved. Plopping an NHL team there would just mean kicking the relocation can down the road by 5-10 years at most.

 

[Edenjung]

Are they really? Seems weird that the IOC would go LA in 2028 and then SLC in 2030.

The thing is that Nobody wants to do the Winter olympics anymore.
Besides Milan for the next one, every other project is on hold or there are no applicants. Sapporo and Salt Lake are the only real bidders for 2030. And Spporo put their project on hold and are Not advertising for it at the moment. This is because of the bribing and spending scandal that came to light after the summer olympics in Tokio.
So the population is not willing to pay for such stuff anymore.

Sapporo, Japan Olympic Committee hit pause on Winter Games bid -Kyodo

The city of Sapporo and the Japan Olympic Committee will pause active promotion of Sapporo's bid for the 2030 Winter Olympics for "a while", Kyodo news agency reported on Tuesday, amid a widening corruption scandal in Japan over the Tokyo 2020 Games.

www.reuters.com

And Salt Lake is the only competitior for the games. So the IOC postponed the Vote on it.

And i think it will be harder and harder to find countries and places for winter olympics. In europe, the residents don't want the games because it costs way too much money and has a huge impact on the environment.
And because of man made climate change there won't be that many places left with the right conditions in the forseeable future. Sapporo would be one of those, but the people are rightly sick of the corruption and costs that come with olympics games. Well in democratic countries at least.

The IOC will most likely just do what the asian winter games did and give it to Saudi Arabia. More money and no questions asked.
And they would be 1 year apart.

Saudi Arabia to host 2029 Asian Winter Games

Saudi Arabia will host the Asian Winter Games in 2029 in mountains near the $500 billion futuristic city project Neom.

olympics.nbcsports.com

 

[DueDiligence]

Also, Salt Lake is the favorite for the 2030 Olympics, which would mean they’re looking at new building.

I guess they've got a lot of money set aside to bribe the IOC officials. ( again)

 

[patnyrnyg]

The Olympic bidding process is greatly truncated these days. There’s a lack of legitimate candidates because the cost of even getting involved is so great not to mention the bidding process, and then all the back room dealings (bribes and corruption) and whatnot. LA and Beijing basically won by acclimation, and I suspect the same here. 2026 they’re already going back to northern Italy. This is just gonna go around to the same towns most of the rest of our lives.

As of now the only other cities in the game here are Stockholm and Sapporo. Stockholm and still “doing studies” although they wanted to be in on 2026, and Sapporo is kind of left in the dark because of scandal investigations regarding Tokyo, so it’s kind of like on the table but not being taken seriously. The Swiss have interest but it’s too late to not be serious, and they don’t even have a city they’re focused on, IOC is voting in October. Salt Lake is the only city with enough ducks lined up, especially since they can reuse so many facilities.

Not to get off-topic, but cities that don't already have the facilities and infrastructure should not be bothering with the IOC or Olympic bids. Stick with cities that already have what is needed or go regional.

 

[GKJ]

Not to get off-topic, but cities that don't already have the facilities and infrastructure should not be bothering with the IOC or Olympic bids. Stick with cities that already have what is needed or go regional.

That’s basically what’s happening. You’re gonna get like the World Cup eventually where it’s just going to be one country hosting it or something. Maybe multiple, there’s been talk of those kinds of bids.

 

[patnyrnyg]

So we heard a rumor about Atlanta and Houston; and now we hear about Utah. Quebec remains.

And each of those cities fall into one of the four regions our divisions are configured in. Hmmm.

I know many on here want to see a team in Quebec City. I know there is an NHL arena already. I would love to see Quebec City get a team, but I do not think it is on the radar at all. I remember reading something when they bid last time that their are 2 issues. 1) Bettman believes most residents of the Quebec City metro area are already fans of the NHL. Whether they are Canadiens fans, fans of another team, or just hockey fans in general, a team there is not going to draw many "new" sets of eyeballs. Where a team in Houston/Salt Lake City/wherever will introduce the league to a much larger audience. Same issue for Hamilton when someone mentions them. 2) Other smaller market owners fear a team in Quebec City. It is assumed their revenues will be very high out of the gate, which will in turn raise the salary cap. However, the revenues for the current low revenue teams will not increase by all that much making it harder for them to compete financially. If we want to argue that Arizona is the lowest revenue team, then removing them from the equation just shifts that burden on another franchise. As a friend loves to say, someone has to be the dumbest student at Harvard.

 

[patnyrnyg]

It costs more to make an arena nhl compliant. When the Sharks passed on joining the Warriors at the Chase Center the design of the chase center was made to not accommodate an nhl team in the future.

So my point was that if SLC is building a new arena for the Games they would need to know whether it just fits the needs of the Jazz or an NHL team as well.

Barclays was originally budgeted serve as an nhl arena but due to the financial crisis, in order to save $200 mill, a re-design of the arena was done to exclude it from being a legit nhl arena.

Thus the city would need to know at the design stage who the main tenants of the arena are.

To have a new arena ready for Feb 2030, shovels have to hit the ground in early 2028 or late 2027 to have a buffer in case of delays. Zoning and approvals and anything else would require a final decision sometime in 2026 most likely. So about 3 years tops away from a final decision of who a new arena would primarily serve.

I could be wrong, but I seem to remember Prokorov (sp?) wanted an NHL-sized arena. However, there was great opposition to the arena being built by the NIMBY types in that area. The agreement/settlement was the smaller NBA-only sized arena.