Bettman meeting with Ryan Smith, owner of Utah Jazz and Real Salt Lake (upd: Smith asks NHL to open expansion process)

[Puckrobber]

I'm just spitballing here, but, has anyone thought of this idea? If Meruelo and Co. don't come up with a viable arena plan by the end of the season, Bettman gives him this option:

Meruelo sells the team to Smith for a decent profit, on the agreed condition that Arizona gets the next expansion team in the next couple of years. Gives the Meruelo team the time it needs to get land to build an arena on, without the time-sensitive stress of getting it done in the next matter of months. 'Yotes then move to SLC for '24-'25. AM gets his arena/shopping district finalized for a new team.

Not that I want the Coyotes to move. I hope they can get a chance to stay in the Valley somewhere. But, would this be something that works for both fanbases and cities?

 

[Yukon Joe]

If you trace back every sale of the Coyotes, its basically from Burke to Ellman to Moyes and then NHL to IceAz to Barroway to AM every selling owner basically borrowed money to cover their annual losses and then the incoming owner took over the debt and borrowed a bit more.

So you take the sale price and then - (whatever he put in + the debt he assumed + debt accumulated/losses covered) = profit on the venture

I think the NHL would want some of that if its a big number but they won't ask for ALL of it like they did with ASG. I also don't have inside info either but I think the NHL was angry at how that all went down and went into FU mode. They were also in FU mode with Moyes and Balsillie. They don't have reason to be with AM. That's all I am saying.

I think you and I are on the same page. *IF* the Coyotes are moving (big if) the league doesn't want to screw over Meruelo, is willing to see him profit somewhat for being a good partner the past 5 years - but would be unwilling to grant him a huge windfall profit either.

Whether that's $500 mil sale / $500 mil relocation, or 700 / 300, or whatever other number I of course have no idea. I'm just making educated guesses.

 

[Yukon Joe]

I'm just spitballing here, but, has anyone thought of this idea? If Meruelo and Co. don't come up with a viable arena plan by the end of the season, Bettman gives him this option:

Meruelo sells the team to Smith for a decent profit, on the agreed condition that Arizona gets the next expansion team in the next couple of years. Gives the Meruelo team the time it needs to get land to build an arena on, without the time-sensitive stress of getting it done in the next matter of months. 'Yotes then move to SLC for '24-'25. AM gets his arena/shopping district finalized for a new team.

Not that I want the Coyotes to move. I hope they can get a chance to stay in the Valley somewhere. But, would this be something that works for both fanbases and cities?

I mean - maybe?

I think though that AM was able to get the Coyotes because of the unique situation of the team - he got it for no money down, just assuming debt plus agreeing to fund losses.

When it comes to an expansion franchise - the NHL wants cash on the barrelhead, so to speak.

So maybe the NHL would phrase the relocation in such a manner - but I think the idea of AM buying an expansion franchise down the road would be pretty remote.

 

[varsaku]

Too many teams already face issues with fans checking out once they are out of contention for a playoff spot. This can't be good if they keep expanding which would result in more teams being out of contention earlier than normal.

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

Maybe somebody who wants a money-making team in a strong hockey market.

Based on what? Surely you're not talking about market size or corporate presence...

 

[Yukon Joe]

Too many teams already face issues with fans checking out once they are out of contention for a playoff spot. This can't be good if they keep expanding which would result in more teams being out of contention earlier than normal.

This is a total side question but I certainly remember hockey in the 1980s when 16 teams out of a 21 team league made the playoffs.

You do have to wonder if the NHL is ever going to expand playoffs - maybe going with an MLB or NBA-style play in tournament?

 

[aqib]

Where are these owners that are beating down the door and being denied?

I get you want to feel persecuted by the USA, but nobody in QC or Hamilton has the cash, desire, or permission from MTL or TOR to have a team there.

The BoG doesn't hate QC, they aren't operating on emotion and Nationalism or Xenophobia. QC just doesn't bring anything meaningful to the table. Based on being even smaller and poorer than Winnipeg, why go there?

You realize that someone doesn't need to actually be in/from the city to invest in a team there. Craig Leipold lives in Wisconsin but owned Nashville and now Minnesota. Karmanos lived in Detroit his entire life.

 

[Yukon Joe]

You realize that someone doesn't need to actually be in/from the city to invest in a team there. Craig Leipold lives in Wisconsin but owned Nashville and now Minnesota. Karmanos lived in Detroit his entire life.

I mean that's obviously all true.

But buying a sports franchise is more than just about making a financial investment. There's a reason you don't see hedge funds or public companies buying teams (or when you did, like Disney in the 90s, they got out shortly after). Buying a sports franchise is an intensely emotional investment.

So, typically, you do see owners buying sports teams in towns they live in. I mean not always (I don't think Michael Andlauer lives in Ottawa for example), but it's typical.

It's also double true for a place like Quebec City. It's very much a french-speaking city (much more so than Montreal). It's really had to imagine someone spending upwards of ONW BILLION DOLLARS to buy a franchise in a city where they can't even speak the language.

 

[TheLegend]

If you want a lesson in fans suffering at the hands of the league's lack foresight or lack of vision, I suggest you talk to some Coyotes fans.

Wait until he discovers Smith is counting on public funding from an Olympics bid to built this new arena and ED 20 miles from his current one.

(If the info in the link posted earlier is true.)

 

[TheLegend]

Sure. But I think most people here are pretty open about what their biases are, and I don't see anyone going "100% book it - Arizona is moving to SLC". Instead it's people linking the two stories and speculating...

You know who intentionally started the Coyotes tanget in this thread by dropping an innuendo, right?

Does it all the time in the megathread.

And he hasn’t posted here since.

 

[DustyDangler]

Too many teams already face issues with fans checking out once they are out of contention for a playoff spot. This can't be good if they keep expanding which would result in more teams being out of contention earlier than normal.

Not catastrophically so. Besides, with the loser point, the NHL has made sure it appears as though all but a few teams are still in it.

This is a total side question but I certainly remember hockey in the 1980s when 16 teams out of a 21 team league made the playoffs.

You do have to wonder if the NHL is ever going to expand playoffs - maybe going with an MLB or NBA-style play in tournament?

It was silly when more made it than didn't. It is literally balanced now which is better and it's okay if more teams don't make it than do. Puts more value on regular season games. I would be into a single elim play in for 15 and 16 seeds but there is no big cause for expanding the playoffs and handing out the cup in August.

 

[Yukon Joe]

You know who intentionally started the Coyotes tanget in this thread by dropping an innuendo, right?

Does it all the time in the megathread.

And he hasn’t posted here since.

And what of it?

Linking Utah and Arizona is not some kind of crazy conspiracy theory. No idea if it'll turn to to be true, but it's a pretty straight-forward combination.

It was silly when more made it than didn't. It is literally balanced now which is better and it's okay if more teams don't make it than do. Puts more value on regular season games. I would be into a single elim play in for 15 and 16 seeds but there is no big cause for expanding the playoffs and handing out the cup in August.

Was 16 out of 21 teams silly? Perhaps, but it didn't feel that way back in the 80s.

"more value on regular season games" is kind of a red herring. because if you're cruising in first place all season your regular season games aren't all that meaningful ether. It's only teams that are "on the edge" of making it or not that have passionate and exciting regular season games.

 

[dj4aces]

Maybe somebody who wants a money-making team in a strong hockey market.


The problem is that Bettman has made it clear that he hates QC and shows no interest in having a profitable team in a strong market. He spits in the faces of fans whenever he has a chance.

Look, are there passionate fans in QC? Absolutely! I've said before, and will say again, that I'd love to see QC back in the league, but you've gotta take emotion out of the equation and think objectively.

Unless PKP has diversified Quebecor to offer more than just one dying media option or another, and those diversified interests make a ton of cash, he won't pass the BoG smell test. The team, as does all teams, will go through lean times. Could PKP survive those lean times with Quebecor? I'll give you an example: Tom Cousins, former owner of the Atlanta Flames, had to sell to Calgary because the Atlanta real estate market crashed in the late 1970s. His holdings were almost exclusively in real estate, with the Flames being the only liquid asset worth anything, It was so bad, Flames players couldn't sell their homes when the team moved. Some kept them as offseason homes, and a few even returned to Atlanta full-time post-retirement.

So, could PKP weather such a storm when newspapers and cable television finally die off completely? Or is he another Balsillie, convinced his business model and offerings are the best with zero contingencies if proven wrong? Does QC have anyone else who could possibly bring in a team, either as a partner with PKP or on their own? Does QC have any major corporate presence besides Quebecor? Because if QC doesn't have these, the BoG will reject the market once again, despite how we might feel on an emotional level to see the Nords return.

Apologies for the tangent.

 

[Rob]

Or, because the owner wants to remain in Phoenix, the Coyotes stay and Utah gets an expansion team. What difference does it make?

It is very possible that Utah gets an expansion team and the Coyotes still don't have an arena deal in three years. Then you have to find them a new home.

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

So I agree that the league doesn't hate QC.

But there's only one reason the NHL goes to a new market - $$$. That's all the reason they need.

If someone in Quebec City showed up to write a billion dollar cheque to the NHL I think the city would have a team in short order. The fact there is no team in Quebec City I think indicates there's nobody able or willing to write that cheque.

Hamilton is a little bit different. First of all Jim Balsillie maybe had enough to buy a team in 2009, but based on both the growth in franchise values and the collapse of Blackberry stock he certainly can't afford to now. Plus of course he's now persona non grata in the NHL. Beyond that - if someone was willing to pay a billion dollars you of course have the issue with the Leafs and Sabres claiming rights - but again money has a way of solving all problems.

If an 8th Canadian team is in the cards, it will come in Toronto, as part of a negotiated dissolution of MLSE between bell and Rogers.

There isn't an owner and building combo anywhere else that works.

This does lay the foundation for an emergency hatch for Arizona, where I don't think there was one before - but aside from that, I don't see much impact on that saga.

 

[DustyDangler]

Was 16 out of 21 teams silly? Perhaps, but it didn't feel that way back in the 80s.

"more value on regular season games" is kind of a red herring. because if you're cruising in first place all season your regular season games aren't all that meaningful ether. It's only teams that are "on the edge" of making it or not that have passionate and exciting regular season games.

Playing 82 games to figure out which 5 teams cant come to the dance? Definitely silly.

 

[Mike Jones]

I get you want to feel persecuted by the USA,

The league is persecuting QC. Go back and read my post again and quit adding stuff that wasn't there.

 

[Mike Jones]

Based on what? Surely you're not talking about market size or corporate presence...

I used to live there and know it's a great hockey city. The league obviously doesn't care to learn that.

 

[TheLegend]

And what of it?

Linking Utah and Arizona is not some kind of crazy conspiracy theory. No idea if it'll turn to to be true, but it's a pretty straight-forward combination.

Depends on what your motive is.

For a lot of people they thought this was orchestrated to take focus away from the Team Canada situation.


The ONLY part of the Smith statement that could be remotely attributed to the Coyotes is where they said they could host a team temporarily in their current arena which for hockey amounts to like playing at Barclays or Footprint in Phoenix.

But take a look at what went down this past week with Atlanta and the report that NHL could entertain opening an application within the next three months.

AFAICT Atlanta was/is well ahead of SLC in their process to get an arena built.

So wouldn’t it be prudent for Smith to write the league and ask to be included in this round? And they could get rolling on their project but could live deal with having a new team in the old place while the new one was being built.

 

[LadyStanley]

Next BOG meeting not scheduled until June. But Bettman could get ExCom to start ball rolling. There are about $2B reasons the league/owners would expand by just one team.

 

[dj4aces]

Was 16 out of 21 teams silly? Perhaps, but it didn't feel that way back in the 80s.

Rose-tinted glasses are fun, no?

It didn't feel silly because no matter how bad your team was, there was always a chance a below-.500 team could make it to the second season. In 1986-1987, that Norris division was pretty awful. The Blues had a below-.500 record, and they were first in the division with 79 points.

Are the playoffs perfect today? Not really, and I don't think you'll find anyone argue that they are. But they weren't great then, either. You just had a higher percentage of teams make it, and many of them who didn't deserve to be there.

 

[TheLegend]

The league is persecuting QC. Go back and read my post again and quit adding stuff that wasn't there.

Persecuting them how? Bettman said flat out building a new arena did not guarantee a franchise.

It boiled down to PKP making promises he couldn’t keep. When it came time to pony up the expansion fee he got cold feet and couldn’t pony up.

It’s that simple.

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

I used to live there and know it's a great hockey city. The league obviously doesn't care to learn that.

Ohhhh… because you lived there. Well then, they’re crazy not to put a team there

 

[Legion34]

You know who intentionally started the Coyotes tanget in this thread by dropping an innuendo, right?

Does it all the time in the megathread.

And he hasn’t posted here since.

Today on the DFO rundown frank seravalli openly said that this press release was about the coyotes and they will be moving there next year.

The coyotes have until Jan 31 to show they have land to build on (or some degree of progress) and that the press release saying immediately was in relation to that.

I’m not saying he’s right. But he absolutely said they were going to lose in the vote last year. I listen to hockey podcasts to pass the commute at work. He was the only one that said that last year

 

[BKIslandersFan]

I used to live there and know it's a great hockey city. The league obviously doesn't care to learn that.

So is Viking, Alberta. NHL should put a team there too?

QC is not entitled to a team. Salt Lake City is not entitled to a team.

Come on man.