Olympics: Bettman hints NHL won't play in 2018 and 2022

[UsernameWasTaken]

NHL players likely to return for Winter Olympics: Bob Nicholson

I don't think Nicholson's actual comments really justify the headline, but here's what he said:

"The players want to go but it's very difficult for the NHL," Nicholson said. "If everyone agrees to take some and leave some on the table, I think we'll see NHL players in the future."

"You never like it to go down to the wire, because everyone loses," he added. "The sooner you decide to go, the better it will be for them and for all of the countries participating."
...
Sweden was angered by the late notice that its star player would be out, and the NHL Players' Association was unhappy with the way the matter was handled by Olympic officials. The dispute was seen as diminishing the likelihood that NHL players would participate in 2018.

Nicholson, who is also a vice-chairman of the Edmonton Oilers, said the Backstrom case would not be the principal factor in deciding on the Pyeongchang Olympics.

"That was a very unfortunate situation," Nicholson said. "The National Hockey League takes doping very seriously, so that wouldn't be an issue of why they're not going to go. The biggest one was the safety of their players, players getting hurt at the Olympic Games midway through the season."

 

[cutchemist42]

I can already see Germany getting the 8th place instead of Switzerland since the NHL probably hasn't noticed that Switzerland has surpassed them.

This is my big problem, the NHL has never been open about the crietera teams are invited by, so we can assume what it is but never truly know. How much is team ability factored in? What about financial aspects?

I actually do think Germany might be invited over Switzerland because in the end, not many Canadians will question the 8th team, and pissing off Switzerland won't affect the NHL's business.

 

[xxxx]

This is my big problem, the NHL has never been open about the crietera teams are invited by, so we can assume what it is but never truly know. How much is team ability factored in? What about financial aspects?

I actually do think Germany might be invited over Switzerland because in the end, not many Canadians will question the 8th team, and pissing off Switzerland won't affect the NHL's business.

Uh, this is not going to happen. I am 100% sure that Slovakia and Switzerland are gonna be there, and I'm sure that 99% of experts, analytics, and random hockey fans would include them into the TOP8. In a perfect world, a qualification system would be better, maybe, but on the other hand, when you look at both nations' international results since 2004/2005, it is clear to me that they fully deserve a spot at the World Cup of Hockey. In the last couple of years, Switzerland has often been mentioned as the 8th nation and that the hockey 'elite' is TOP8 now, and not only top7. Despite their not-so-much successful junior and a few times even senior tournaments, Slovakia has never really lost its TOP7 position.

 

[xxxx]

NHL players likely to return for Winter Olympics: Bob Nicholson

I don't think Nicholson's actual comments really justify the headline, but here's what he said:

Yeah, I think there is a chance. I obviously don't know what their discusion looks like, but I do remember how unrealistic it was in 2010 to think that NHL players would go to Sochi, so, who knows.

 

[TheTwelfth]

I have seen no sign yet that would support this opinion, yet I have seen many people claim this, without anything to support it.

1) The NHL want to split the revenue with the NHLPA. Why would any other league send their players under these circumstances?

2) The NHL may not want to participate in the Olympics. Why would the IIHF go along with a WC without Olympic participation?

3) The NHL wants the tournament to take place in September, cutting into KHL season start and other leagues' preseason. Why would other leagues switch their schedule, which is set to match up with the WHC in the spring, when the NHL refuse to align itself with the WHC?

Could all of these (and other) problems be resolved? Of course. Is it that easy to do? Hell no.

 

[TheTwelfth]

This is my big problem, the NHL has never been open about the crietera teams are invited by, so we can assume what it is but never truly know. How much is team ability factored in? What about financial aspects?

I actually do think Germany might be invited over Switzerland because in the end, not many Canadians will question the 8th team, and pissing off Switzerland won't affect the NHL's business.

This is my problem to. I can see Germany getting the eight spot solely because of the prospect of a larger audience in Germany watching the tournament than from Switzerland.

 

[JackSlater]

1) The NHL want to split the revenue with the NHLPA. Why would any other league send their players under these circumstances?

We don't know how the finances will be divided. Presumably, since the NHl is negotiating with different leagues and federations there will be a cut for the other participants. That's the way it was before. The Soviets for instance received payment for their participation.

2) The NHL may not want to participate in the Olympics. Why would the IIHF go along with a WC without Olympic participation?

As has been stated numerous times, World Cup participation can be used as a negotiating tool to entice the NHL to participate in the Olympics. This has been stated by media members in North America numerous times.

3) The NHL wants the tournament to take place in September, cutting into KHL season start and other leagues' preseason. Why would other leagues switch their schedule, which is set to match up with the WHC in the spring, when the NHL refuse to align itself with the WHC?

Could all of these (and other) problems be resolved? Of course. Is it that easy to do? Hell no.

This one is the best question, and the answer probably goes with your first two issues. Money, and the promise of Olympic participation going forward. Some of the other federations seem to be on board already (Sweden, Finland) while Tretiak says positive things about participating as well. Unless all of those people are idiots there must be something positive in it for them.

 

[Jussi]

We don't know how the finances will be divided. Presumably, since the NHl is negotiating with different leagues and federations there will be a cut for the other participants. That's the way it was before. The Soviets for instance received payment for their participation.

Soviets were the only ones that got paid because that was the only way they would play in NA (same applies to the club side meetings in the 70's and 80's).

 

[xxxx]

It's interesting what I see here. When the NHL doesn't get money from the IOC (Olympics), it shouldn't be a reason for them to not go to Korea.

But when european leagues don't get money from the NHL for World Cup, it's a reason to not go. Interesting. Care to explain? Anybody?

 

[Jussi]

It's interesting what I see here. When the NHL doesn't get money from the IOC (Olympics), it shouldn't be a reason for them to not go to Korea.

But when european leagues don't get money from the NHL for World Cup, it's a reason to not go. Interesting. Care to explain? Anybody?

No one gets money from the Olympics (except the federations from each discipline and the national federations from those parent organizations). Europeans aren't in the Olympics for the money.

 

[JackSlater]

And not many outside North America care about this unsanctioned, invitational 8-team Canada Cup.

Here's Teemu Selanne after Finland won the semi-final game in 2004:

"This is the greatest achievement in Finnish ice hockey," gleamed veteran forward Teemu Selanne. "Being world champions in 1995 was a major achievement as was the bronze (medal) in Nagano. But this (victory over the U.S.) supersedes both of those. It's the World Cup and all the best players are here."

Perhaps Europeans don't care... but some important Europeans do.

http://www.hhof.com/htmlTimeCapsule/GamesSummaryWCUP2004.shtml

 

[Jussi]

Here's Teemu Selanne after Finland won the semi-final game in 2004:

"This is the greatest achievement in Finnish ice hockey," gleamed veteran forward Teemu Selanne. "Being world champions in 1995 was a major achievement as was the bronze (medal) in Nagano. But this (victory over the U.S.) supersedes both of those. It's the World Cup and all the best players are here."

Perhaps Europeans don't care... but some important Europeans do.

http://www.hhof.com/htmlTimeCapsule/GamesSummaryWCUP2004.shtml

You do realize two years later we played in the Olympic final which was THE greatest achievement of Finnish hockey then?

 

[Yakushev72]

Here's Teemu Selanne after Finland won the semi-final game in 2004:

"This is the greatest achievement in Finnish ice hockey," gleamed veteran forward Teemu Selanne. "Being world champions in 1995 was a major achievement as was the bronze (medal) in Nagano. But this (victory over the U.S.) supersedes both of those. It's the World Cup and all the best players are here."

Perhaps Europeans don't care... but some important Europeans do.

http://www.hhof.com/htmlTimeCapsule/GamesSummaryWCUP2004.shtml

It probably was true that that was the greatest achievement in Finnish hockey up until then. But as Jussi pointed out, it was quickly superceded 18 months later.

 

[JackSlater]

You do realize two years later we played in the Olympic final which was THE greatest achievement of Finnish hockey then?

It probably was true that that was the greatest achievement in Finnish hockey up until then. But as Jussi pointed out, it was quickly superceded 18 months later.

That has literally nothing to do with what I posted. I assume that Selanne values 2006 more. The point is that in reality some Europeans, and most importantly the players, really do care quite a bit about a Canada/World Cup.

 

[1Gold Standard]

It probably was true that that was the greatest achievement in Finnish hockey up until then. But as Jussi pointed out, it was quickly superceded 18 months later.

what happened 18 months later doesn't change the fact that elite level athletes want to compete against and with their peers in a best on best tournament on a more frequent basis.

 

[1Gold Standard]

That has literally nothing to do with what I posted. I assume that Selanne values 2006 more. The point is that in reality some Europeans, and most importantly the players, really do care quite a bit about a Canada/World Cup.

you beat me to it, Jack!

 

[Jonimaus]

That has literally nothing to do with what I posted. I assume that Selanne values 2006 more. The point is that in reality some Europeans, and most importantly the players, really do care quite a bit about a Canada/World Cup.

In this thread I learnt: Placing top 2 in a best-on-best tournament beats winning a non-best-on-best-tournament! You really don't get what Jussi pointed out, do you?

We've already gone through this. I even posted what some Swedish players thought of the world cup in, I believe it was this thread. The opinion was always the same, World cup, fun tournament, the olympics, the real deal. Which I'm fairly sure mimics the opinion of the hockey interested Europeans. Doubt you'll find more than a handfull who would even begin to consider the world cup as even close to equal to the olympics.

 

[Jussi]

That has literally nothing to do with what I posted. I assume that Selanne values 2006 more. The point is that in reality some Europeans, and most importantly the players, really do care quite a bit about a Canada/World Cup.

Since 2004, Finland have won Olympic silver, bronze twice and a World Championship where NHL players were present. World Cup means less and less to fans and players.

 

[JackSlater]

In this thread I learnt: Placing top 2 in a best-on-best tournament beats winning a non-best-on-best-tournament! You really don't get what Jussi pointed out, do you?

Jussi pointed out that two years after the quote I posted Finland placed second again, but this time in the Olympics. Which is completely irrelevant to what I said. That Jussi or (presumably) Selanne values the Olympics more isn't the point. The point was in regard to the cries of many "fans" that they do not care about the result and more importantly that the player's don't care, or also that it doesn't compare to an IIHF event because... the IIHF has some magical property or something. The point had nothing to do with saying World Cup >= Olympics, which I am guessing Jussi inferred.

We've already gone through this. I even posted what some Swedish players thought of the world cup in, I believe it was this thread. The opinion was always the same, World cup, fun tournament, the olympics, the real deal. Which I'm fairly sure mimics the opinion of the hockey interested Europeans. Doubt you'll find more than a handfull who would even begin to consider the world cup as even close to equal to the olympics.

I would be interested in seeing these quotes again, because I can't remember them. My post was not about the Olympics though, it was about the idea that Europeans, and more importantly the players, don't care.

Since 2004, Finland have won Olympic silver, bronze twice and a World Championship where NHL players were present. World Cup means less and less to fans and players.

Finland had already received an Olympic bronze and won a WC when Selanne said that. If you want to say that winning the World Championship with some NHL players (though not remotely close to all of the best players) means more, then I guess we are in agreement that the quality of a tournament depends on the quality of the players involved. Still though, we have Selanne on record as of 2004 with regard to if players care about the tournament. Your speculation on how subsequent achievements are viewed by Finnish players are irrelevant to that quote.

 

[TheTwelfth]

It's interesting what I see here. When the NHL doesn't get money from the IOC (Olympics), it shouldn't be a reason for them to not go to Korea.

But when european leagues don't get money from the NHL for World Cup, it's a reason to not go. Interesting. Care to explain? Anybody?

With the risk as sounding as a far left socialist, it is because the NHL do: If the NHL is getting revenue, the rest wants in. If nobody gets money, that is fine too. Importance of fairness (or, rather the perception of fairness) trumps even personal gain at times (which would make the heads of classical libertarian economists explode)

It is similar to the use of (Canadian) NHL referees in an Olympics final involving Canada and a European team (say Sweden in 2014): the perception of national neutrality/fairness is valued higher than maximising the personal gain in getting the best referees.

NOTE: The referee comparison is of course the view of the media/fans in Europe, not the players. The players from Sweden were very vocal with preferring to have NHL refs in the 2014 Olympic finals.

 

[xxxx]

In this thread I learnt: Placing top 2 in a best-on-best tournament beats winning a non-best-on-best-tournament! You really don't get what Jussi pointed out, do you?

We've already gone through this. I even posted what some Swedish players thought of the world cup in, I believe it was this thread. The opinion was always the same, World cup, fun tournament, the olympics, the real deal. Which I'm fairly sure mimics the opinion of the hockey interested Europeans. Doubt you'll find more than a handfull who would even begin to consider the world cup as even close to equal to the olympics.

Yep, I would also talk about it as a "fun tournament" after being smashed 1-6 by the Czechs in front of the home crowd in Stockholm I think hockey is all about fun But the Czechs took it actually quite seriously, I remember how they were trailling 0-4 to Sweden in a group game, it ended 3-4. Then they beat you 6-1 in Sweden. Then they lost 3-4 in overtime to Canada in one of the best games ever played. I would say a more "funny" tournament for them, at least.

I watch it because the players take it seriously and the game is high-level paced, just as at any other best-on-best tournament. Wow, what a freak I am.

 

[TheTwelfth]

I watch it because the players take it seriously and the game is high-level paced, just as at any other best-on-best tournament. Wow, what a freak I am.

Nobody is telling you how to feel for a game/tournament, but you should (for the sake of discussion), try to understand other opinions (like, the average European fan's).

 

[xxxx]

Since 2004, Finland have won Olympic silver, bronze twice and a World Championship where NHL players were present. World Cup means less and less to fans and players.

I thought it couldn't be worse.

Btw, is there any connection between the two statements?

 

[Rob]

I can't understand the problem at all that the NHL has with the Olympics.

For players it's a great opportunity to represent their national teams in a best-on-best tournament in one of the biggest events in all of sports which has a long history and tradition.

For many fans its a nice chance to see their favourite players outside of NHL.

And I also think it serves as a tool of promotion for hockey in general but also for the NHL. Especially if a national team with mostly NHL players wins.

The only reason the NHL went to the Olympics was to increase the popularity of the sport in the US. American owners do not believe that they have seen the benefit.

 

[xxxx]

Nobody is telling you how to feel for a game/tournament, but you should (for the sake of discussion), try to understand other opinions (like, the average European fan's).

I don't believe that opinion. I believe that there are many people - in Europe - who care about the tournament. I see here 2-4 european posters over and over again with opinions often against WC/CC. That, for me, doesn't represent an average european fan. lol. Just as the fact that some canadian posters here are often discussing the World Championships and its tournaments doesn't mean that an average canadian fan cares about the WHC.