Better concept for the World Cup

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^ If you want to make a tournament almost only suitable for a North American audience, then fine. But don't name it the World Cup then. If this tournament, with this format, is going to replace the Olympics, then I'm really dissappointed in how little the NHL cares about it's European fans.

Its a world cup because it's a best on best tournament held in the best hockey rinks in the world. If other countries want in, they need world class facilities and need to be able to show that the revenue created in those markets will offset the revenue list in North America due to bad start times to games. I know I've seen a lot of international tournaments in Europe that were poorly attended. The NHLs World Cup is at or very close to capacity for every game. Need to be able to match that revenue generation in Europe.
 
No, people comprehend that, its just that...well...thats the problem. its not a real international best on best tournament, and with the Olympics looking less and less likely to continue, people arent happy about it.

Its 100% a real international tournament. As I stated there are only 6 countries that are really relevant, all of which are represented. You could claim that US and Canada are slightly disadvantaged because of the NA23 team, but I don't think that is enough to completely discredit what is an amazing world cup.
 
Wrong.

If that was the case, sports in general wouldn't exist anymore. Money is not the reason why kids start to play, nor the reason why people cheer for their team or their nation, nor the reason why people are getting emotional and care for the team and the players who represent them. The money is just a side effect, not a law of nature. Quite a sad side effect if you ask me

Were not talking about kids playing hockey. Nobody is watching tykes play an international best on best. All pro sports comes down to money. If it didn't, tickets would be free.
 
Yes, we pretty much all know why the tournament has this structure, and it is to make money and expose more NHL players, as you said. It is however clearly meant to be an international tournament, which it isn't, since it is the continuation of an international tournament and the NHL promotes it as an international tournament.

The point of the thread is to discuss better World Cup concepts though, not to speculate on the reasons why the NHL chose this format.

Oh I get the point of the thread.

What I haven't read a lot of is reasonable ideas to improve based on the criteria I outlined above.

The ideas listed in this thread are sort of like a fan saying a team should trade for Crosby, Ovechkin, Price, Doughty, Keith, Toews, and Stamkos without considering the salary cap or how a team would have the assets required to acquire all those players. The world cup has to fit within parameters in order to be acceptable to the NHL and the PA.
 
A lot of people in here don't seem to comprehend the purpose of this tournament. It's not only meant to be an international hockey tournament. It's meant to feature the largest number of NHL players in a best on best format that suits the NHL schedule and the North American audience. Oh yeah and it needs to be profitable.

People talking about moving this thing to multiple countries just don't get it. They're already throwing the European countries a bone by having some pre tournament games in Europe. To me, that's enough. The NHL and PA do not want crazy travel prior to the start of the NHL season. North America has an abundance of world class facilities in place, so why move it overseas?

In sports, all sports, it's all about money. From a TV rights perspective, the big money is in Canada and the US. Every other nations TV rights probably account for a tiny fraction of what Rogers is paying in Canada. Maybe one day the tournament gets so big that huge money can be generated overseas, but that's DECADES away from happening. So you need games being played to cater to EST.

On top of that you have to accept that the NHL wants this tournament to promote as many of their own players as possible. Again, some people in Europe may not understand or want to hear this, but in North America, nobody cares about players from the K, or the Swedish or Finnish leagues. Whereas people in Europe have to care about the NHL, because that is the undisputed best league in the world. The result is you're not going to see a rush to get teams like Slovenia, Switzerland, Germany, etc to have their own teams.

The NHL made a smart call by having a Team Europe to allow those NHLPA members from those small hockey nations to showcase their talents and also create a competitive team. People have cited times when these lower tier nations have hung tough against the top teams, but from a medal standpoint in best on best none of them have been competitive. Plus the style they need to play to "hang in" is not conducive to drawing people to an arena to watch those games. Imagine how poorly attended a qualifying game between Slovenia and Germany would be in say Philadelphia.

Anyone suggesting a massive increase in number of teams is out to lunch. The PA is not going to agree to playing tons of games just to allow C and D level countries in. Similarly they're not going to authorize massive play in process to make it more "legitimate" to certain types of people. The reality is the depth of hockey worldwide isn't that strong. My qualification process would be simple. If any nation can field a team that is 75%+ of players who were contracted by an NHL team the season prior to the tournament, then they qualify. Until then, if they feel 8 teams are necessary, then you keep the two non nation teams. Personally, I would be okay with only 6 teams, but at the same time Ive loved watching the NA23 team.

The odd thing about the people complaining about this tournament is they don't seem to appreciate the other alternatives. You have a future state of Olympic hockey without NHL participation. That will be a joke of a tournament. You have the World Hockey Championship which its organizers in their infinite wisdom continue to schedule during the NHL playoffs, making it a mediocre on mediocre competition. The NHL and PA has the right to profit from the risk involved with their players putting on a best on best show. You have to accept that the result of that will be a tournament that caters to the NHL and the PA not some negative nancys in Helsinki.

That's fine, just don't call it the World Cup. Call it the Six Nations All Star Challenge or something. If you really want to give Europeans the finger, why even invite their players?
 
Its a world cup because it's a best on best tournament held in the best hockey rinks in the world. If other countries want in, they need world class facilities and need to be able to show that the revenue created in those markets will offset the revenue list in North America due to bad start times to games. I know I've seen a lot of international tournaments in Europe that were poorly attended. The NHLs World Cup is at or very close to capacity for every game. Need to be able to match that revenue generation in Europe.

I'm not even against the tournament being held in Toronto, as long as games are played at somewhat reasonable times (CET).

Sure, I'd like Slovakia and Switzerland there. But if you're gonna exclude them, just play the tournament with 6 teams. And don't give Europe a gimmick team to hate.
 
Some factions of Canadian NHL fans are like the extreme factions of American foreign policy. We don't need other countries, sure we'll use them for our benefit, and they should like it, but really they only exist to serve us as we see fit. If they refuse, well we have all the power so what are they going to do?
 
Some factions of Canadian NHL fans are like the extreme factions of American foreign policy. We don't need other countries, sure we'll use them for our benefit, and they should like it, but really they only exist to serve us as we see fit. If they refuse, well we have all the power so what are they going to do?

Yeah, I don't understand how people can just want a world tournament to suit only a North American fanbase. How is it not a problem that a 'World' Cup is being so critized by the (hockey)world?

I'm Swedish and my national team is there. So why do I care? Because I can see it from my fellow Europeans perspective. Excluding some of them is bad enough, but replacing them with these gimmick teams? That's pretty insulting... I want a 'World' Cup that the hockey 'world' can enjoy. Not just people on one continent.
 
Yeah, I don't understand how people can just want a world tournament to suit only a North American fanbase. How is it not a problem that a 'World' Cup is being so critized by the (hockey)world?

I'm Swedish and my national team is there. So why do I care? Because I can see it from my fellow Europeans perspective. Excluding some of them is bad enough, but replacing them with these gimmick teams? That's pretty insulting... I want a 'World' Cup that the hockey 'world' can enjoy. Not just people on one continent.

It'd be like if the English made the World Cup just include English League players, always hosted in London.

Although Team South America might kick some serious ass at that tournament. :laugh:
 
That's fine, just don't call it the World Cup. Call it the Six Nations All Star Challenge or something. If you really want to give Europeans the finger, why even invite their players?

A world cup assumes the best teams. The top 6 are all that matter, they are there. I would even argue the Czechs are close to being irrelevant at this point.

The other teams allow for greater representation of NHLPA members than the inclusion of say Switzerland and Slovakia would. Yes, that would be a more traditional "world cup", but it would drastically reduce the quality of the tournament. As a fan, I would prefer the better tourny. One of the top 5 teams will likely win regardless.
 
A world cup assumes the best teams. The top 6 are all that matter, they are there. I would even argue the Czechs are close to being irrelevant at this point.

The other teams allow for greater representation of NHLPA members than the inclusion of say Switzerland and Slovakia would. Yes, that would be a more traditional "world cup", but it would drastically reduce the quality of the tournament. As a fan, I would prefer the better tourny. One of the top 5 teams will likely win regardless.

A World Cup assumes an international tournament made of up of international hockey federations. If you are going to throw out the norms of international competition and you're only litmus test is having the best players and lots of NHLPA members then: Call it the NHLPA Cup, draft up whatever teams you want and then no complaints. World Cup is clearly a misnomer.
 
I'm not even against the tournament being held in Toronto, as long as games are played at somewhat reasonable times (CET).

Sure, I'd like Slovakia and Switzerland there. But if you're gonna exclude them, just play the tournament with 6 teams. And don't give Europe a gimmick team to hate.

Suggestion of CET shows you don't get where the revenue for the tourny is coming from. If the tourament was held at more Euro friendly start times, do you think the net revenues from TV rights fees would be higher or lower?

I don't get why Euros have to hate the European team. Do you hate Team Europe at the Ryder Cup?
 
Some factions of Canadian NHL fans are like the extreme factions of American foreign policy. We don't need other countries, sure we'll use them for our benefit, and they should like it, but really they only exist to serve us as we see fit. If they refuse, well we have all the power so what are they going to do?

For me it's all about the free market. I would hold a tournament in Russia if I thought it would generate more revenue. I don't think that's the case.
 
A lot of people in here don't seem to comprehend the purpose of this tournament. It's not only meant to be an international hockey tournament. It's meant to feature the largest number of NHL players in a best on best format that suits the NHL schedule and the North American audience. Oh yeah and it needs to be profitable.

People talking about moving this thing to multiple countries just don't get it. They're already throwing the European countries a bone by having some pre tournament games in Europe. To me, that's enough. The NHL and PA do not want crazy travel prior to the start of the NHL season. North America has an abundance of world class facilities in place, so why move it overseas?

In sports, all sports, it's all about money. From a TV rights perspective, the big money is in Canada and the US. Every other nations TV rights probably account for a tiny fraction of what Rogers is paying in Canada. Maybe one day the tournament gets so big that huge money can be generated overseas, but that's DECADES away from happening. So you need games being played to cater to EST.

On top of that you have to accept that the NHL wants this tournament to promote as many of their own players as possible. Again, some people in Europe may not understand or want to hear this, but in North America, nobody cares about players from the K, or the Swedish or Finnish leagues. Whereas people in Europe have to care about the NHL, because that is the undisputed best league in the world. The result is you're not going to see a rush to get teams like Slovenia, Switzerland, Germany, etc to have their own teams.

The NHL made a smart call by having a Team Europe to allow those NHLPA members from those small hockey nations to showcase their talents and also create a competitive team. People have cited times when these lower tier nations have hung tough against the top teams, but from a medal standpoint in best on best none of them have been competitive. Plus the style they need to play to "hang in" is not conducive to drawing people to an arena to watch those games. Imagine how poorly attended a qualifying game between Slovenia and Germany would be in say Philadelphia.

Anyone suggesting a massive increase in number of teams is out to lunch. The PA is not going to agree to playing tons of games just to allow C and D level countries in. Similarly they're not going to authorize massive play in process to make it more "legitimate" to certain types of people. The reality is the depth of hockey worldwide isn't that strong. My qualification process would be simple. If any nation can field a team that is 75%+ of players who were contracted by an NHL team the season prior to the tournament, then they qualify. Until then, if they feel 8 teams are necessary, then you keep the two non nation teams. Personally, I would be okay with only 6 teams, but at the same time Ive loved watching the NA23 team.

The odd thing about the people complaining about this tournament is they don't seem to appreciate the other alternatives. You have a future state of Olympic hockey without NHL participation. That will be a joke of a tournament. You have the World Hockey Championship which its organizers in their infinite wisdom continue to schedule during the NHL playoffs, making it a mediocre on mediocre competition. The NHL and PA has the right to profit from the risk involved with their players putting on a best on best show. You have to accept that the result of that will be a tournament that caters to the NHL and the PA not some negative nancys in Helsinki.

Most people here are well aware of reasons why NHL came up with this concept. They critize it from the point of view you are not even able to recognize from your cave. NHL must be the most powerfull organization in the world according to your post. Just little bit to clarify it. This organization was able to come up with three tourneys in last 20 years. If they organize it again with another experiment I hope they will explain to representatives of other hockey federations what they need to understand and accept as fact. I am just bit afraid that if they explain it like you did these federations can easily say no to NHL and you can finally organize US - CAN September series because that will be only thing NHL can do. Because no one in Jekaterinburg, Helsinky etc. does not give a **** that no one in USA does not give a **** about Jekatirinburg or Helsinky.

And one more thing specifically for you. Most of the fans have their team in WC and these are not NHL teams. So if NHL wants that teams it has to treat them as partners. And these teams also listen to voice of their fans. So no, we do not have to accept anything because these teams are not governed by NHL. Got it?
 
Yeah, I don't understand how people can just want a world tournament to suit only a North American fanbase. How is it not a problem that a 'World' Cup is being so critized by the (hockey)world?

I'm Swedish and my national team is there. So why do I care? Because I can see it from my fellow Europeans perspective. Excluding some of them is bad enough, but replacing them with these gimmick teams? That's pretty insulting... I want a 'World' Cup that the hockey 'world' can enjoy. Not just people on one continent.

Get the Swedish Elite league to construct a world cup type event. You can cater it to Sweden and see how it does. In fact I would argue the World Championships are more rediculous to North American fans because it's usually held in Europe and they decided to time it when the best league in the world is having playoffs.

Imagine if FIFA tried to have a world cup in May.
 
It'd be like if the English made the World Cup just include English League players, always hosted in London.

Although Team South America might kick some serious ass at that tournament. :laugh:

Its nothing like that because other football leagues in Europe have world class players. The number of elite hockey players in the leagues outside the NHL would barely fill a phone booth.
 
A World Cup assumes an international tournament made of up of international hockey federations. If you are going to throw out the norms of international competition and you're only litmus test is having the best players and lots of NHLPA members then: Call it the NHLPA Cup, draft up whatever teams you want and then no complaints. World Cup is clearly a misnomer.

Only to you. To the paying public it's an opportunity to see who owns hockey.
 
Most people here are well aware of reasons why NHL came up with this concept. They critize it from the point of view you are not even able to recognize from your cave. NHL must be the most powerfull organization in the world according to your post. Just little bit to clarify it. This organization was able to come up with three tourneys in last 20 years. If they organize it again with another experiment I hope they will explain to representatives of other hockey federations what they need to understand and accept as fact. I am just bit afraid that if they explain it like you did these federations can easily say no to NHL and you can finally organize US - CAN September series because that will be only thing NHL can do. Because no one in Jekaterinburg, Helsinky etc. does not give a **** that no one in USA does not give a **** about Jekatirinburg or Helsinky.

And one more thing specifically for you. Most of the fans have their team in WC and these are not NHL teams. So if NHL wants that teams it has to treat them as partners. And these teams also listen to voice of their fans. So no, we do not have to accept anything because these teams are not governed by NHL. Got it?

I won't criticize your post because my Czech is pretty terrible.

I will say that European fans are irrelevant to the success of this tournament. The NHL and PA can have decades and decades of success running this tournament without pulling a single dollar out of Europe. It's important to understand that. Got it?
 
I won't criticize your post because my Czech is pretty terrible.

I will say that European fans are irrelevant to the success of this tournament. The NHL and PA can have decades and decades of success running this tournament without pulling a single dollar out of Europe. It's important to understand that. Got it?

So we can call it North America Cup then, just to be accurate. :)
 
You've already said you only care about the North American audience. So clearly you're desire for a World Cup or anything resembling it is zero.

I care about a platform to have best on best international hockey to prove which county is best. The inclusion of team europe and team NA23 and the exclusion of C level nations like Switzerland or Latvia does nothing to prevent that from being accomplished.
 

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