Best player in the world: 2015

[Voight]

Did I say he was the better player that year? He was the better player for 10 straight years before and 10 years after. Crosby was the best player in 12-13 and 13-14 by a huge margin then finished third in scoring 3 points back of the lead. He was still the best player in the world and will only strengthen that the next 2 years with h2b smythes and cups

lol wut.

 

[Voight]

Crosby was still considered the best player in the world at the time. And he did lead the league in ppg.

It took 2 pages for PPG to come up.

Impressive. usually the fanboys throw it out there on the first page.

 

[Video Nasty]

14-15 thread, right? Why are you posting 15-16 accolades?

I'd suggest reading my post again, seems you misunderstood something.

I'm saying that it's not like Crosby's 15-16 season was amazing and that this 14-15 season was an anomaly. This was a permanent transformation - this is when Crosby stopped being anything but just one of the top players.

And by the way, are you flaunting Crosby's 19 points in 24 games and -2 in the playoffs as some argument for why he was the best in the world? Kessel should have won the Conn-Smythe, but Crosby got it because people were pushing the narrative that Crosby, after he stopped being a top offensive player, is some defensive stalwart. And as a career achievement.

But I'm sure we'll have lots of fun talking about that in the 15-16 thread.

This is so true. After the Penguins won in 2009 and Malkin was rightfully given the Conn Smythe, they were expected to win again soon. When Crosby missed time from 2010-2011 through 2012-2013, there was a very real, palpable fear that his career would be short lived.

Pair that with zero wins over the course of 6 seasons when an additional Cup or two was expected and Crosby playing 11 seasons without having a Smythe yet, by the time the Penguins won again in 2016, I got the impression that the media was desperate to give it to him in case it was his last chance. I feel like they would have given it to Kessel if they could see into the future and see the Penguins repeating the next season.

 

[GreatGonzo]

I guess with McDavid out some of the outliers here will be looking for the best player in the NHL somewhere else now eh?

Going forward, how many scoring titles will Crosby have to lose to “inferior” players until he is no longer considered THE best? I sense that the next two polls, regular season accolades will take a back seat to playoff success, all because it’s Crosby….

 

[Regal]

If you don't have to play like the best player, let alone play at all, what point is there in wearing the crown?

"Even though I'm not playing like it, I could be the best, and that's all that matters." - said no athlete ever.

Your ability to embrace nuance is exceptional

 

[norrisnick]

Your ability to embrace nuance is exceptional

There's nuance and there's a firm grasp of reality vs fantasy. But you can potayto potahto it if you want.

 

[Regal]

What you could have done doesn't matter in the face of what you did.

Otherwise you would never have a changing of the guard. Because whoever was best could have just continued without injury or variance or aging or any number of things that apparently don't factor in.

The guard changes all the time. You’re trying to paint things as some bizarre black and white where a player can never lose his crown due to any reason. Of course age decline factors in, as well as decreased play due to long term injury. But simply missing games here and there is not the same as not being the best. And being among the best with players who had slightly better seasons but aren’t able to replicate their play over a larger stretch doesn’t mean you aren’t better than them.

There's nuance and there's a firm grasp of reality vs fantasy. But you can potayto potahto it if you want.

How about playing dumb?

 

[norrisnick]

The guard changes all the time. You’re trying to paint things as some bizarre black and white where a player can never lose his crown due to any reason. Of course age decline factors in, as well as decreased play due to long term injury. But simply missing games here and there is not the same as not being the best. And being among the best with players who had slightly better seasons but aren’t able to replicate their play over a larger stretch doesn’t mean you aren’t better than them.

How about playing dumb?

Playing dumb like pretending a player can't just, you know, not be as good as their peak on a year to year basis?

 

[GreatGonzo]

The guard changes all the time. You’re trying to paint things as some bizarre black and white where a player can never lose his crown due to any reason. Of course age decline factors in, as well as decreased play due to long term injury. But simply missing games here and there is not the same as not being the best. And being among the best with players who had slightly better seasons but aren’t able to replicate their play over a larger stretch doesn’t mean you aren’t better than them.



How about playing dumb?

At what point is Crosby no longer considered the best then? He was no longer winning scoring titles, he was no longer putting up big numbers after 2014. Like I said, playoffs will become a huge factor in how you value Crosby compared to the rest of the league. Being one of the best doesn’t warrant being considered the best just because he’s Crosby.

 

[norrisnick]

At what point is Crosby no longer considered the best then? He was no longer winning scoring titles, he was no longer putting up big numbers after 2014. Like I said, playoffs will become a huge factor in how you value Crosby compared to the rest of the league. Being one of the best doesn’t warrant being considered the best just because he’s Crosby.

No no no, you're doing nuance wrong. Nuance means Crosby was at one point the best therefore he's always the best.

Don't look into particulars, facts, things that actually happened, etc... none of that is nuance.

 

[Svencouver]

If anyone is interested here are my own votes:

Hasek 98
Hasek 99
Jagr 00
Jagr 01
Lidstrom 02
Forsberg 03
Forsberg 04
Jagr 06
Lecavalier 07
Ovechkin 08
Ovechkin 09
Ovechkin 10
Crosby 11
Malkin 12
Crosby 13
Crosby 14

By the spirit of "best player," I more or less agree on all of these. Would take Sid in 07 too, though

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

At what point is Crosby no longer considered the best then? He was no longer winning scoring titles, he was no longer putting up big numbers after 2014. Like I said, playoffs will become a huge factor in how you value Crosby compared to the rest of the league. Being one of the best doesn’t warrant being considered the best just because he’s Crosby.

12-13
St louis 60 points
Stamkos 57 points
Crosby/OV 56 points

13-14
Crosby 104
Getzlaf 87
Giroux 86


14-15
Benn 87
Tavares 86
Crosby 84

15-16
Kane 106
Benn 87
Crosby 85

16-17
Mcdavid 100
Crosby 89
Kane 89

Tell me which name you see often

 

[bobholly39]

At what point is Crosby no longer considered the best then? He was no longer winning scoring titles, he was no longer putting up big numbers after 2014. Like I said, playoffs will become a huge factor in how you value Crosby compared to the rest of the league. Being one of the best doesn’t warrant being considered the best just because he’s Crosby.

Price peaked high enough after trending upwards towards this 2015 season that I think for this one year period he matches/surpasses Crosby as best player (since at same time Crosby had been trending down for 3 years). So I voted for Price.

I did still vote Crosby in 2012 - because trends were opposite. Crosby clear best in two years prior and after than Malkin - just didn't play due to injury (but when he did play, produced as best in league). So trend is different than with Price this year - Crosby hadn't been trending down in 2012 (the opposite) and Malkin kind of came out of nowhere. So although I voted Crosby in 2012 - Malkin was obviously fantastic and is a fine answer for those who picked him - even at their best, the gap between him and Crosby aren't that far.

But beyond that - it's Crosby every year from 2011 to 2017, till McDavid takes over (in 2017-2018, where McDavid is best player even though I very much dislike that season for him).

Playoffs matter when the best players do really well, because its a differentiator. In 2014 Justin Williams won the Conn Smythe and no one has ever said he's close to best in league. In 2015 Keith won, great defenseman but obviously not best in the world. So yes - when Crosby wins Smythe in 2016 and 2017, it is impactful to the question of "best player in the world". Just as it mattered in 2001 with Sakic's playoffs, or 2008/09 with Crosby/Malkin/Datsyk/Zetterberg doing so well in playoffs. Just like it's going to matter for McDavid in 2022. Or also - Makar in 2022 (though not enough to displace McDavid).

 

[Voight]

Price peaked high enough after trending upwards towards this 2015 season that I think for this one year period he matches/surpasses Crosby as best player (since at same time Crosby had been trending down for 3 years). So I voted for Price.

I did still vote Crosby in 2012 - because trends were opposite. Crosby clear best in two years prior and after than Malkin - just didn't play due to injury (but when he did play, produced as best in league). So trend is different than with Price this year - Crosby hadn't been trending down in 2012 (the opposite) and Malkin kind of came out of nowhere. So although I voted Crosby in 2012 - Malkin was obviously fantastic and is a fine answer for those who picked him - even at their best, the gap between him and Crosby aren't that far.

But beyond that - it's Crosby every year from 2011 to 2017, till McDavid takes over (in 2017-2018, where McDavid is best player even though I very much dislike that season for him).

Playoffs matter when the best players do really well, because its a differentiator. In 2014 Justin Williams won the Conn Smythe and no one has ever said he's close to best in league. In 2015 Keith won, great defenseman but obviously not best in the world. So yes - when Crosby wins Smythe in 2016 and 2017, it is impactful to the question of "best player in the world". Just as it mattered in 2001 with Sakic's playoffs, or 2008/09 with Crosby/Malkin/Datsyk/Zetterberg doing so well in playoffs. Just like it's going to matter for McDavid in 2022. Or also - Makar in 2022 (though not enough to displace McDavid).

This is false. He might've been the best in 2011 but 2010 was Ovechkin.

 

[Mrb1p]

Not a lot of talk about the actual best player from 2015 to 2017 here.

 

[Nadal On Clay]

What in my post is untrue? Where am I making things up like his cult members? No, it’s always been about commenting on the exaggerations and fairy tale lies of his career that some recount and apparently many more just accept as truth. I don’t dislike Crosby; I dislike the cult.

@nowhereman gave an excuse as to why Crosby couldn’t win the Art Ross. He said that Crosby missed a bunch of games due to the mumps. This is a lie. He missed three games, a span of 10 days in real time for something that typically clears up completely within two weeks. Being overly generous means he’s fine by New Years 2015. He finished with 45 points in 43 games from that point on through the end of the season. Again, that is with me being overly placating, something a hater actually won’t do, and ignoring the previous week and 4 games where he registered 1 point which was almost a full week after he returned.

He started with 7 goals in his first 8 games of the season and then scored twice in his next 15 through the end of November (again ignoring the additional 5 games tacked on to make this 20 games due to absurd generosity when determining how much the mumps affected his play). He had a fantastic opening month (24 points in 13 games) that we would have to hear projections for until the end of time if he had exited due to injury. Instead he played 64 games from then on at a sub PPG pace.

2014-2015 was a colossal disappointment. I don’t see the need to make excuses and not call it what it was.

Edit: And there’s @daver spouting another falsehood. “He got off to a great start and then got a viral illness”. No, he got off to a great start, was lackluster for about 15 games, then got a viral illness, and then was given another season long grace period even though he finished third in the scoring race again the very next season and behind one of the same players as before.

Your first post in the thread wasn’t a response to anyone, just a random shot at Crosby after he arguably had the best stretch of hockey since Lemieux/Jagr. That is why the anti-Crosby cult will always be worse than the 3-4 posters who put him on a pedestal.

 

[Video Nasty]

Your first post in the thread wasn’t a response to anyone, just a random shot at Crosby after he arguably had the best stretch of hockey since Lemieux/Jagr. That is why the anti-Crosby cult will always be worse than the 3-4 posters who put him on a pedestal.

My first post, other than quoting @jigglysquishy you must mean, is my explanation for why Crosby is an undeserving pick in a thread with a poll asking for the best player this season. Random? Part of what made the season dreadful and uninteresting is that after entertaining what ifs for three seasons and having Crosby win awards the year prior, it was a big letdown to see what unfolded. Much like how I’ve been mostly critical of Ovechkin post-2010 because he’s been a shell of himself since.

I’m sorry it doesn’t jive with your love fest.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Second year in a row voting Price. He was an absolute machine.

 

[GreatGonzo]

12-13
St louis 60 points
Stamkos 57 points
Crosby/OV 56 points

13-14
Crosby 104
Getzlaf 87
Giroux 86


14-15
Benn 87
Tavares 86
Crosby 84

15-16
Kane 106
Benn 87
Crosby 85

16-17
Mcdavid 100
Crosby 89
Kane 89

Tell me which name you see often

So once again, he doesn’t need to be at the top in order to be considered the best….so when does that stop? 2018? Why 2018 considering McDavid would win his first scoring title and Hart over him in 2017 and then would go on a streak that Crosby never did.

I did still vote Crosby in 2012 - because trends were opposite. Crosby clear best in two years prior and after than Malkin - just didn't play due to injury (but when he did play, produced as best in league). So trend is different than with Price this year - Crosby hadn't been trending down in 2012 (the opposite) and Malkin kind of came out of nowhere. So although I voted Crosby in 2012 - Malkin was obviously fantastic and is a fine answer for those who picked him - even at their best, the gap between him and Crosby aren't that far.

But beyond that - it's Crosby every year from 2011 to 2017, till McDavid takes over (in 2017-2018, where McDavid is best player even though I very much dislike that season for him).

Playoffs matter when the best players do really well, because it’s a differentiator. In 2014 Justin Williams won the Conn Smythe and no one has ever said he's close to best in league. In 2015 Keith won, great defenseman but obviously not best in the world. So yes - when Crosby wins Smythe in 2016 and 2017, it is impactful to the question of "best player in the world". Just as it mattered in 2001 with Sakic's playoffs, or 2008/09 with Crosby/Malkin/Datsyk/Zetterberg doing so well in playoffs. Just like it's going to matter for McDavid in 2022. Or also - Makar in 2022 (though not enough to displace McDavid).

I agree with most of this but I don’t see an argument for Crosby in 2017 over McDavid, even considering playoffs. If we use prior years to dictate who’s the best, then McDavid wins in 2017 due to his consistency AT the top for the next few years.

The difference is McDavid won the Art Ross in 2022 AND led the playoffs in scoring. That’s quite a difference compared to using playoffs for Crosby to make up for what he didn’t accomplish in the regular season. He didn’t do either in 2017 or 2016, but still gets the crown? Makes no sense.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Lol calling price the best player in the world in 2015 is wild. Crosby had just dominated the two prior seasons. Finishing third in scoring 3 points back of the ross doesn't throw him off the throne. Price had the best season that's fine

Price was better the previous year as well. He was insanely good in 2014. Very medicocre club that he brings to 100 points. Best player at the Olympics by far. Huge upset win over cup favourite Boston. Beats Vezina winner Rask at the Olympics and in the playoffs. The only thing that could stop him was this injury he suffered in game one of the third round. I’d say Price was already the best player in the world before the season even began.

 

[Nadal On Clay]

My first post, other than quoting @jigglysquishy you must mean, is my explanation for why Crosby is an undeserving pick in a thread with a poll asking for the best player this season. Random? Part of what made the season dreadful and uninteresting is that after entertaining what ifs for three seasons and having Crosby win awards the year prior, it was a big letdown to see what unfolded. Much like how I’ve been mostly critical of Ovechkin post-2010 because he’s been a shell of himself since.

I’m sorry it doesn’t jive with your love fest.

It’s pretty obvious when someone has an agenda against a certain player. I rarely see you criticize McDavid or try to counter his biggest homers like you love to do with Crosby though.

 

[Video Nasty]

It’s pretty obvious when someone has an agenda against a certain player. I rarely see you criticize McDavid or try to counter his biggest homers like you love to do with Crosby though.

I’m not a hall monitor, NOC. I waste more than enough time just posting here period.

What’s the worst that can be said about a 3 time Hart, 4 time Lindsay, 5 time Art Ross winner who is not even halfway through his career? That he hasn’t had won the Cup up to this point? Yawn, we get it.

There are no fairy tales that people tell when it comes to McDavid. We all know that he needs and will almost certainly get the Cup when the dust settles.

No one is sitting here spinning yarns about things that didn’t happen on an individual level like they do for Crosby.

Especially now with McDavid gunning for Crosby’s placement and higher in hockey history.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

I’m not a hall monitor, NOC. I waste more than enough time just posting here period.

What’s the worst that can be said about a 3 time Hart, 4 time Lindsay, 5 time Art Ross winner who is not even halfway through his career? That he hasn’t had won the Cup up to this point? Yawn, we get it.

There are no fairy tales that people tell when it comes to McDavid. We all know that he needs and will almost certainly get the Cup when the dust settles.

No one is sitting here spinning yarns about things that didn’t happen on an individual level like they do for Crosby.

Especially now with McDavid gunning for Crosby’s placement and higher in hockey history.

Without a cup he's not gunning for ish

 

[Bouboumaster]

58.3% of people here wasn't watching hockey in 2014/2015, surely

like, wtf

 

[norrisnick]

58.3% of people here wasn't watching hockey in 2014/2015, surely

like, wtf

Watch hockey? You're doing it wrong. You just gotta ask a bunch of people to see who they think is the best. That's what matters.