Best player in the world: 2015

[norrisnick]

Sure but we also have clear information and data to draw on here but some people have other narratives to push here so it is what it is.

My only narrative is to pick the best player of the year being discussed in the thread and not who the best player of whatever 2-3-4-etc... year window best serves the particular Penguin player in question.

 

[Matty Sundin]

teams were more about defence and goaltending so scoring was down. Carey Price was the best of the bunch. If a goalie wins the hart then you know he was the best player in the world that season.
John Tavares had an underrated year though due to low scoring and losing the art ross on the last day of season.

 

[TheGuiminator]

After the 19-20 season or after the 2021-22 season wasn't mcdavud still known as the best player in the world after both? Even though he wasn't the best (drai, matthews)? It's the same thing with crosby. Anyways I'm not gonna further go into it as it's a known fact crosby was the best player in the world in 2015 but yes price had the best season

Yes he was, but you never acknowledged it

I remember you claiming for Matthews as being the best player in 2022 then switching for Makar during the playoffs

 

[wetcoast]

My only narrative is to pick the best player of the year being discussed in the thread and not who the best player of whatever 2-3-4-etc... year window best serves the particular Penguin player in question.

Your bias is showing here and also your general misunderstanding of the question, if the OP was asking for which player had the best season he would ask that question but you already know that.

The pretzel you have twisted yourself into will say Price dressed for all 82 games even though he only played in 66 of them, like you did with Thomas previously.

 

[norrisnick]

Your bias is showing here and also your general misunderstanding of the question, if the OP was asking for which player had the best season he would ask that question but you already know that.

The pretzel you have twisted yourself into will say Price dressed for all 82 games even though he only played in 66 of them, like you did with Thomas previously.

At least those 66 games are all in this season.

If your main argument in a discussion regarding the best player of the '14-'15 season is shit that happened in the '12-'13 and '13-'14 seasons you might as well just let it go...

 

[wetcoast]

At least those 66 games are all in this season.

Crosby played 77 and others played more your selective usage of GP is revealing and blatantly obvious.

 

[norrisnick]

Crosby played 77 and others played more your selective usage of GP is revealing and blatantly obvious.

If by "selective usage of GP" you mean games played exclusively in the season being discussed. I will gladly own that accusation of bias.

Also, spoiler alert. I didn't vote for Price.

 

[TheGuiminator]

Looking at Crosby’s 14-15 game log, he had the Art Ross almost locked in by the start of the season with a tremendous start (33 pts in his first 22 games), but really fell of a cliff afterwards (51 pts in the next 55 games). This was by far the worst strech of Crosby's career by that point. Had maintained "only" a point per game pace during those remaining 55 games, he would've won the Ross despite playing below his standards, but for some reasons, he played WAY below his standards for most of the season, which costed him an Art Ross that was virtually a lock from the start of the season.

I gave Crosby the benefit of the doubt and voted for him in 2011,2012,2013 & 2014, but 2015 was a huge letdown as it should have been a copy/paste of his 2013-14 season. Best player in the world don't lose scoring races to the likes of Tavares & Benn in their prime, especially in such low scoring environment.

 

[wetcoast]

If by "selective usage of GP" you mean games played exclusively in the season being discussed. I will gladly own that accusation of bias.

Also, spoiler alert. I didn't vote for Price.

Who did you vote for then and exactly what is the argument for said player?

 

[norrisnick]

Who did you vote for then and exactly what is the argument for said player?

Ovechkin on the basis of being the best skater that year. Richard, Hart runner-up, 4th in points with head and shoulders above in goals.

I would have liked to have gone with Doughty or Keith but their regular seasons and big playoffs are flipped. If this were Keith's '14 RS and '15 PO or Doughty's '15 RS and '14 PO I'd have gone with either of them.

 

[daver]

Asking the obligatory if the OP is about the calendar year of 2015?

 

[daver]

Crosby had been slowly decreasing for 3 straight years now.

Great in 2013
Great still in 2014 but slightly less so (yes despite awards)
And still really good, but again decrease in 2015

With Price - its the exact opposite. Huge spike in 2014. MVP in olympics in what i consider perhaps 2nd best goaltending performance ever at an olympics after Hasek 98. Followed by great end of season playoffs till round 3....where he got injured it cost his team final, if not who knows, maybe finals/cup.

Then in 2015 - clear best season in the league, by far. Close to unanimous hart winner (for a goalie, even more impressive), also wins Vezina/Lindsay.

Then - start of 2016 - only played ~1-2 month before season ending injury, but was again at top of league for goalies/overall.

I'm all for differentiating between best season and best player, but:

Crosby - 3 year downward slide
Price - 3 year upward spike, with 2015 his best season, clear best season in league

Close, but I'm voting Price here.

NHL Stats

The official source for NHL Stats including skaters, goalies, teams stats and more.

www.nhl.com

He gets off to a great start then gets a viral illness.

He basically sees a weird blip in his prime where he goes to well under a PPG for 90/100 games then rebounds in late 2015/early 2016 with a new coach and returns to his prime but not quite peak self.

 

[Video Nasty]

You know you can just say you don’t like Crosby.

What in my post is untrue? Where am I making things up like his cult members? No, it’s always been about commenting on the exaggerations and fairy tale lies of his career that some recount and apparently many more just accept as truth. I don’t dislike Crosby; I dislike the cult.

@nowhereman gave an excuse as to why Crosby couldn’t win the Art Ross. He said that Crosby missed a bunch of games due to the mumps. This is a lie. He missed three games, a span of 10 days in real time for something that typically clears up completely within two weeks. Being overly generous means he’s fine by New Years 2015. He finished with 45 points in 43 games from that point on through the end of the season. Again, that is with me being overly placating, something a hater actually won’t do, and ignoring the previous week and 4 games where he registered 1 point which was almost a full week after he returned.

He started with 7 goals in his first 8 games of the season and then scored twice in his next 15 through the end of November (again ignoring the additional 5 games tacked on to make this 20 games due to absurd generosity when determining how much the mumps affected his play). He had a fantastic opening month (24 points in 13 games) that we would have to hear projections for until the end of time if he had exited due to injury. Instead he played 64 games from then on at a sub PPG pace.

2014-2015 was a colossal disappointment. I don’t see the need to make excuses and not call it what it was.

Edit: And there’s @daver spouting another falsehood. “He got off to a great start and then got a viral illness”. No, he got off to a great start, was lackluster for about 15 games, then got a viral illness, and then was given another season long grace period even though he finished third in the scoring race again the very next season and behind one of the same players as before.

 

[wetcoast]

Ovechkin on the basis of being the best skater that year. Richard, Hart runner-up, 4th in points with head and shoulders above in goals.

I would have liked to have gone with Doughty or Keith but their regular seasons and big playoffs are flipped. If this were Keith's '14 RS and '15 PO or Doughty's '15 RS and '14 PO I'd have gone with either of them.

What in my post is untrue? Where am I making things up like his cult members? No, it’s always been about commenting on the exaggerations and fairy tale lies of his career that some recount and apparently many more just accept as truth. I don’t dislike Crosby; I dislike the cult.

@nowhereman gave an excuse as to why Crosby couldn’t win the Art Ross. He said that Crosby missed a bunch of games due to the mumps. This is a lie. He missed three games, a span of 10 days in real time for something that typically clears up completely within two weeks. Being overly generous means he’s fine by New Years 2015. He finished with 45 points in 43 games from that point on through the end of the season. Again, that is with me being overly placating, something a hater actually won’t do, and ignoring the previous week and 4 games where he registered 1 point which was almost a full week after he returned.

He started with 7 goals in his first 8 games of the season and then scored twice in his next 15 through the end of November (again ignoring the additional 5 games tacked on to make this 20 games due to absurd generosity when determining how much the mumps affected his play). He had a fantastic opening month (24 points in 13 games) that we would have to hear projections for until the end of time if he had exited due to injury. Instead he played 64 games from then on at a sub PPG pace.

2014-2015 was a colossal disappointment. I don’t see the need to make excuses and not call it what it was.

Edit: And there’s @daver spouting another falsehood. “He got off to a great start and then got a viral illness”. No, he got off to a great start, was lackluster for about 15 games, then got a viral illness, and then was given another season long grace period even though he finished third in the scoring race again the very next season and behind one of the same players as before.

Man you do now that people can go and look up the stats right?

crosby was elading the NHL in points at the end of November he gets the mumps and then the rest of his season is meh.

Sure hot goal stat wise but he didn't dry up offensively at all

October 9-7-8-15
November 14-2-16-18

December mumps and coming back 11-2-3-5


Sure seeing a player get the mumps and affect him was disappointing to see but he was still an elite player when fully healthy as we have the first 2 months and then the rest of his career after that.

Ovechkin that season was a PPG monster then meh at ES and never had the 2 months of excellence that Crosby did.

I'll take the Crosby mumps season over Ovechkin 8 days a week here.

Price has a case Ovi certainly doesn't.

 

[norrisnick]

I'll take the Crosby mumps season over Ovechkin 8 days a week here.

No one doubts that for a second. Don't worry.

This is what Sid vote number 6 or 7 for you?

 

[wetcoast]

No one doubts that for a second. Don't worry.

This is what Sid vote number 6 or 7 for you?

I haven't voted in every poll and like I said I'm not good at evaluating goalies and their numbers are often team enhanced.

The fact of the matter is that Crosby has 18 straight seasons of a PPG + so I follow the stats, eye test, performance and overall play sure.

Remember I'm voting for the best player in the world not who had the best season one you are voting for which really is a different question.

 

[FrankSidebottom]

If anyone is interested here are my own votes:

Hasek 98
Hasek 99
Jagr 00
Jagr 01
Lidstrom 02
Forsberg 03
Forsberg 04
Jagr 06
Lecavalier 07
Ovechkin 08
Ovechkin 09
Ovechkin 10
Crosby 11
Malkin 12
Crosby 13
Crosby 14

 

[norrisnick]

I haven't voted in every poll and like I said I'm not good at evaluating goalies and their numbers are often team enhanced.

The fact of the matter is that Crosby has 18 straight seasons of a PPG + so I follow the stats, eye test, performance and overall play sure.

Remember I'm voting for the best player in the world not who had the best season one you are voting for which really is a different question.

I don't quite remember, did you vote for Thornton for the '07 vote? He was the reigning Hart/Art Ross holder from '06 and had a really strong year in '07 as well....

 

[wetcoast]

I don't quite remember, did you vote for Thornton for the '07 vote? He was the reigning Hart/Art Ross holder from '06 and had a really strong year in '07 as well....

I missed that poll and I would have taken Crosby over Thornton as I like my players more balanced than Jumbo in San Jose.

 

[Sasha Orlov]

Price AINEC

 

[norrisnick]

I missed that poll and I would have taken Crosby over Thornton as I like my players more balanced than Jumbo in San Jose.

And you would have voted for a less balanced 19yo why?

Or which balance? Offense/defense? Or goals/assists? Just trying to figure out which voting standard you aren't sticking to...

 

[wetcoast]

And you would have voted for a less balanced 19yo why?

He was more balanced than Jumbo Joe and was offensively very close to him despite having a lesser supporting cast at the time.

We can look at the WC for both guys as well.

In 04-05 Joe leads Team Canada in scoring with 16 points and the next season as an 18 year old NHL rookie Crosby leads a much younger Team Canada with 16 points as well.

I have no idea on why one would call Crosby less balanced.

Here are their stat lines that season and the one before

Thornton 163-51-188-239
Crosby 160-75-147-222

 

[norrisnick]

He was more balanced than Jumbo Joe and was offensively very close to him despite having a lesser supporting cast at the time.

We can look at the WC for both guys as well.

In 04-05 Joe leads Team Canada in scoring with 16 points and the next season as an 18 year old NHL rookie Crosby leads a much younger Team Canada with 16 points as well.

I have no idea on why one would call Crosby less balanced.

Here are their stat lines that season and the one before

Thornton 163-51-188-239
Crosby 160-75-147-222

Because defense, physicality, etc... are things beyond pure offense that can be provided to help a team.

But we digress. 2015

 

[wetcoast]

Because defense, physicality, etc... are things beyond pure offense that can be provided to help a team.

But we digress. 2015

Yes 2015 Crosby provided more than just goal scoring to his team that's why I'd take Crosby over Ocechkin for the best player in the world circa 2015.

He was head and shoulders above the pack for the totality of the 2013-2014 to 2014-2015 season he didn't lose his level of ability because of the mumps there.

NHL Stats

The official source for NHL Stats including skaters, goalies, teams stats and more.

www.nhl.com

 

[GreatGonzo]

I missed that poll and I would have taken Crosby over Thornton as I like my players more balanced than Jumbo in San Jose.

So the reigning Hart/Art Ross winner doesn’t get the benefit of the doubt after finishing 7 points behind Crosby….but Crosby gets the benefit of the doubt for something he did 1, 2, even 3 years ago…

Sounds about right. By your own standards Thornton should have been the best player in 2007. Crosby simply had the “better year.”