Best player in the world: 2012

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

People were calling Malkin the best player in the world. Even Ovechkin said it. And due to his concussion issues no one knew if Crosby would ever be the same.

I really don't recall that lol. Considering malkin and ovechkin both fell off a cliff in 10-11. I remember when he returned in 11-12 the talk of the hockey world was the best player in the world was returning by all the media and fans

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

I really don't recall that lol. Considering malkin and ovechkin both fell off a cliff in 10-11. I remember when he returned in 11-12 the talk of the hockey world was the best player in the world was returning by all the media and fans

The talk started in December when Malkin took over the scoring race. Malkin absolutely dominated from that point on. Also was incredible during the world championships.

Another player Kulemin said it too.

“But without Alex Ovechkin and Pavel Datsyuk it would be very hard to score all those goals. And Evgeni Malkin, what can you say? He’s the best player in the world, for sure.’’

Ovechkin, Malkin power Russia to world title

HELSINKI, Finland - Russia won the ice hockey World Championship Sunday by defeating Slovakia 6-2 in the final. Alexander Semin of the Washington Capitals scored two goals and had an assist in the rout. Russia scored three times in the second per

koreajoongangdaily.joins.com

 

[Deas]

Fill in the blank:

In 2012, Evgeny Malkin won the Hart overwhelmingly, won the Pearson, and put up a season that was significantly better than any season Sidney Crosby has ever had. But Crosby was better than Malkin in 2012 because ________________.

Because if healthy the ball of Crosby bounces higher than the ball of Malkin dropped from the same height. Based on eye test, scoring pace and maybe advanced stats?

I’m not saying it’s easy to prove, or that I even think it’s Crosby over Malkin that year, but I don’t think it’s impossible to fill in your blank with something relevant.

Also I think the punishment done on elite players over injuries can be just as bad as undervaluing the work done by those who played a full season.

 

[wetcoast]

Stamkos scored 60 goals and has 4 votes.

Crosby scored 8 goals and has 45 votes.

Stamkos won the Richard that year but very few people were considering him as the best player in the world at that time it was basically between the 2 Pens players but Malkin had been inconsistent in his elite play the 2 seasons before Crosby maintained that elite level.

One could reasonably have Malkin for that year because he looked like he was back on track again.

 

[norrisnick]

Stamkos won the Richard that year but very few people were considering him as the best player in the world at that time it was basically between the 2 Pens players but Malkin had been inconsistent in his elite play the 2 seasons before Crosby maintained that elite level.

One could reasonably have Malkin for that year because he looked like he was back on track again.

Does it get more inconsistent than missing 101 games over those two seasons?

 

[Midnight Judges]

It comes down to what we're talking about.

Ovechkin didn't forget how to score goals and "suck" at it in 2016-2017. He had an off year, for whatever reason. But he's still the best in the world.

If your focus is a lot more on who had the best year, vs who is the best in an absolute sense - I agree. Crosby best goal-scorer in 2017. Malkin best player in 2012. Thomas in 2011. etc.

Practically nobody "forgets" how to play. That's almost never the issue. Jaromir Jagr likely still remembers how to be the best player. He physically can't do it in 2023.

Older players become physically unable to perform. Being physically unable to perform is what makes them diminished as players. I don't see that as objectively any different than a younger player who can't perform.

 

[wetcoast]

Does it get more inconsistent than missing 101 games over those two seasons?

The thing is that one guy was elite in his play and the other wasn't.

You really need to read the actual question, most people understand the nature of it.

MJ actually had a full series on it it was called best season.

 

[Janvonpobben]

henrik sedin won the hart. he was the best that season.

 

[Matty Sundin]

This was the year imo Malkin jumped out of the shadows of Crosby. 2012 was definitely the year of Malkin.

 

[wetcoast]

Practically nobody "forgets" how to play. That's almost never the issue. Jaromir Jagr likely still remembers how to be the best player. He physically can't do it in 2023.

Older players become physically unable to perform. Being physically unable to perform is what makes them diminished as players. I don't see that as objectively any different than a younger player who can't perform.

There is quite a difference though between a young player who can't perform because he just isn't that good and an elite one who is injured and misses time.

For example Ovechkin isn't on this list because he simple didn't perform and had 2 full years where he played but his play wasn't anywhere near best in the world which it had been in the 09-10 season.

To your specific point at some point age and an obvious decline from best player in the world discussion both hit Jagr and Sakic, merely having one of the best seasons doesn't change that.

 

[Rich Nixon]

Peter Laviolette said it was Giroux so vote accordingly

 

[AndreRoy]

Stamkos once again being shown zero respect despite leading the league with 60 goals. At least he’s in the freaking poll this time.

 

[norrisnick]

The thing is that one guy was elite in his play and the other wasn't.

You really need to read the actual question, most people understand the nature of it.

MJ actually had a full series on it it was called best season.

How is playing at an elite level interspersed with less elite play any worse than playing at an elite level interspersed with not playing at all?

"even if he had a bit of a down year, bad luck or many injuries"

If you go down the road of accepting a handful of games at elite play as your benchmark, it shouldn't matter what if anything happens in those other games right?

But at the end of the day, for me, playing even at say 80% of full capabilities is better than not playing at all, ie 0%.

 

[wetcoast]

How is playing at an elite level interspersed with less elite play any worse than playing at an elite level interspersed with not playing at all?

"even if he had a bit of a down year, bad luck or many injuries"

If you go down the road of accepting a handful of games at elite play as your benchmark, it shouldn't matter what if anything happens in those other games right?

But at the end of the day, for me, playing even at say 80% of full capabilities is better than not playing at all, ie 0%.

We are well aware of your position and most disagree even if Malkin is till a good choice , Crosby is as well given the question.

 

[Svencouver]

This whole "Crosby wasn't the best because he wasn't playing" thing is a matter of object permanence. If The Penguins have a game scheduled on Monday, no game scheduled on Tuesday, and then a game scheduled on Wednesday - am I meant to believe that Crosby stops being the best player on the world on Tuesday when he's the best player in the world on Monday and Wednesday?

I would absolutely agree that short span of 20 odd games can be written off as a hot streak or whatever. I'm not about to call rookie Elias Pettersson the best goalscorer in the world during the 10 game stretch where he scored 10 goals. But Crosby repeatedly earned the benefit of the doubt by proving, every time he stepped on the ice, that he was the best hockey player on the planet. There was never a moment in these years where he was playing that he was not the best. I have no idea how its even possible to construe a years-long period of consistently excellent play as inconsistent or a matter of speculation. At the time, you could have asked yourself "Is Crosby going to still be the best player in the world when he returns from injury and his concussions," but you should have no longer been asking that question when he did return from injury and was still the best player in the world.

It's a strawman argument to say that the best player in the world cant change at all year-on-year and that voting for best player instead of best season somehow precludes that possibility. Ovechkin was better in his best seasons because he was a better scoring forward than Crosby who had not yet added more than that to his game. From 2010 onwards, Crosby was simply the most skilled, most complete, most dominant hockey player because of the work he did to develop his play and add elements he was missing to it. That's what makes him a top 10 player of all time, his ability to continually improve and make himself a more complete, winning player.

 

[Midnight Judges]

This whole "Crosby wasn't the best because he wasn't playing" thing is a matter of object permanence. If The Penguins have a game scheduled on Monday, no game scheduled on Tuesday, and then a game scheduled on Wednesday - am I meant to believe that Crosby stops being the best player on the world on Tuesday when he's the best player in the world on Monday and Wednesday?

Firstly, he never was the best player in the world to begin with at that time.

Secondly, it's 60 missed games in 2012, not 1. And this is after missing half the season in 2011.

 

[Midnight Judges]

But Crosby repeatedly earned the benefit of the doubt by proving, every time he stepped on the ice, that he was the best hockey player on the planet. There was never a moment in these years where he was playing that he was not the best.

That is just plain false.

Both Ovechkin and Malkin had stretches that were just as good as Crosby's peak 40 games, except Ovie's was better because he sustained it for over 50 games. Same goes for Malkin who scored 60 some points and 30-some goals in a 40 game stretch during 2012:

NHL Stats

Malkin matched Crosby's best 40 game stretch of play ever, except he put it all together within a Hart/Pearson/Art Ross full season.

So basically you are claiming Crosby was the absolute best because he matched, not exceeded, Malkin, for brief periods, except Crosby contributed precisely nothing in the other 75% and 50% of the seasons whereas Malkin contributed at an elite level, just not at that peak level.

I understand why you are misremembering: Much of Canada acted like what you are saying is true. But it isn't.

 

[wetcoast]

That is just plain false.

Both Ovechkin and Malkin had stretches that were just as good as Crosby's peak 40 games, except Ovie's was better because he sustained it for over 50 games. Same goes for Malkin who scored 60 some points and 30-some goals in a 40 game stretch during 2012:

NHL Stats

Malkin matched Crosby's best 40 game stretch of play ever, except he put it all together within a Hart/Pearson/Art Ross full season.

So basically you are claiming Crosby was the absolute best because he matched, not exceeded, Malkin, for brief periods, except Crosby contributed precisely nothing in the other 75% and 50% of the seasons whereas Malkin contributed at an elite level, just not at that peak level.

I understand why you are misremembering: Much of Canada acted like what you are saying is true. But it isn't.

You sound like GeorgeLeafer or whatever he is calling himself these days but looking at the stats and nothing else but it's par.for the course wonder how you are going to react to 12-13 and 14-15?

 

[Toby91ca]

Stamkos once again being shown zero respect despite leading the league with 60 goals. At least he’s in the freaking poll this time.

I don't see it that way at all. You can think 2 players are really close to each other and do a poll and 1 player sweep with 100% of the votes....doesn't mean player 2 isn't good or is way behind, just means people though player 1 was better.

Stamkos was the best scorer at 60 goals....was 1.18ppg, but Malkin scored 50 goals and was 1.45ppg.....it's not disrespect by picking Malkin here.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

The talk started in December when Malkin took over the scoring race. Malkin absolutely dominated from that point on. Also was incredible during the world championships.

Another player Kulemin said it too.

“But without Alex Ovechkin and Pavel Datsyuk it would be very hard to score all those goals. And Evgeni Malkin, what can you say? He’s the best player in the world, for sure.’’

Ovechkin, Malkin power Russia to world title

HELSINKI, Finland - Russia won the ice hockey World Championship Sunday by defeating Slovakia 6-2 in the final. Alexander Semin of the Washington Capitals scored two goals and had an assist in the rout. Russia scored three times in the second per

koreajoongangdaily.joins.com

There are his fellow

Firstly, he never was the best player in the world to begin with at that time.

Secondly, it's 60 missed games in 2012, not 1. And this is after missing half the season in 2011.

Are you really trying to f***in say crosby was not the best player in the world when he got hurt on Jan 2011. Who the f*** was then. Crosby had just scored 109 points the previous season and at 23 was reaching his peak. Who was f***ing ovechkin? The guy who scored 85 f***ing points finishing 7th in scoring? Man f***ing ridiculous

 

[nowhereman]

Malkin and especially Crosby were nowhere close to OV in the 08-10 regular seasons but their fans said the playoffs should push them ahead. So by that same logic Thomas should have won 2011 with his Vezina + Smythe. 2012 Kovy. Regular season top 5 pts, 1st AST. Clearly behind Malkin, but closer than Crosby was to OV in 08 and 09 regular seasons. Best skater in the 2012 playoffs, carried NJ to the SCF with a broken back. Am I saying he should win? No, like I said I voted Malkin. I just find it hilarious that certain people aren't even bringing it up anymore, but it was so important when Crosby was getting destroyed in the regular season and OV was dominating.

There seems to be a lot of misremembering and historical revision about how OV, Crosby and Malkin compared during that time. The hockey world saw them as a "Big 3" with OV and Sid often referred to as 1A vs. 1B. I voted for OV in all three seasons of his prime and gave him the nod ahead of the other two based on his string of hardware but the notion that he was miles ahead of Sid and Malkin is absurd. Kovalchuk, on the other hand, was nowhere near Crosby or Malkin during the time period in this poll and his playoffs weren't historically special in the least.

Easy: The homerism for Crosby on this forum is simply a huge cut above the homerism for any other player.

You could make a poll about who the best Shoots and Ladders player in the NHL is and there would be a huge contingent feeling utterly confident that it must be Crosby.

Nah, you just have a massive blindspot due to your unparalleled bias for OV/hate for Crosby. You would have thought that the last few polls would have been evidence enough that the historical revisionism and mental gymnastics goes both ways. In fact, Crosby gets a hell of a lot more hate than Ovechkin does.

 

[GreatGonzo]

You sound like GeorgeLeafer or whatever he is calling himself these days but looking at the stats and nothing else but it's par.for the course wonder how you are going to react to 12-13 and 14-15?

The differences between those seasons and 2012 are pretty extreme. I hope you can at least see that. Crosby actually played the games and put together two elite seasons. 2012, he didn’t. It’s really that simple.

So now it’s “there’s more to this than stats.” Then how do we judge Crosby if not for his stats? He was judged for his stats in 2009, 2010, and 2011….now suddenly it’s “stats don’t tell the whole story.”

 

[wetcoast]

The differences between those seasons and 2012 are pretty extreme. I hope you can at least see that. Crosby actually played the games and put together two elite seasons. 2012, he didn’t. It’s really that simple.

So now it’s “there’s more to this than stats.” Then how do we judge Crosby if not for his stats? He was judged for his stats in 2009, 2010, and 2011….now suddenly it’s “stats don’t tell the whole story.”

The stats have never told the whole story on who is the best player in the world

The level of play and everything any said player brings us what it's all about.

Otherwise we would simply call the Art Ross winner the best every year.

 

[Midnight Judges]

Are you really trying to f***in say crosby was not the best player in the world when he got hurt on Jan 2011. Who the f*** was then. Crosby had just scored 109 points the previous season and at 23 was reaching his peak. Who was f***ing ovechkin? The guy who scored 85 f***ing points finishing 7th in scoring? Man f***ing ridiculous

Ovechkin had a half season run of 60-some points and 30-some goals in 2010, and another one in 2008, and he dominated the league for those three seasons (missed like 13 or 14 games in 3 seasons) leading the league in PPG, GPG, points, goals, and playoff GPG and PPG.

Following the 2010 season of being clearly inferior to Ovechkin (basically same points and goals in 9 more games), Crosby had a half season run at 60-some points and 30 some goals for the first half of 2011 and otherwise was useless that season, missed the playoffs, and was again useless for three quarters of the following season.

Malkin had a half season run at the end of 2012 at 60-some points and 30-some goals and was otherwise elite for the remainder of 2012 (minus 7 games).

Yet somehow Crosby's half season garners a year and half grace period, whereas Malkin's full season and Ovechkin's 3 full seasons - which encapsulate a much more sustained level of play equal or greater to Crosby's peak - garner precisely zero grace period?

How do you not realize you are applying a double standard here?

 

[bambamcam4ever]

So Malkin's 1.45 ppg over the season is very impressive, over 75 games. Crosby had 1.68 ppg, true. But that was over 22 games. The thing is, few players can sustain a massive ppg over an entire season.

Heck, just look at last season, the state after 22 games played. Jason Robertson had 35 points in 22 games for 1.59 ppg. Finished the season with 109 points in 82 games for 1.33 ppg. Tage Thompson had 1.52 ppg after 27 games, finished the season with 1.21 ppg.


Point is, a 22 game sample is too small to project over an entire season, when comparing to a season like Malkin's.

Indeed, Crosby has sustained strong ppgs over an entire season, but Malkin's 1.45 is very close to Crosby's best, which was during a time of higher scoring.

In 06-07, the top 5 in scoring were 120, 114, 108, 105, 102.

In 11-12, the top 5 in scoring were 109, 97, 93, 84, 83. And Malkin only played 75 games, still.

But if you look at the 40 games on either side of this season you'll see that he did maintain that ppg.

It would actually be more unusual if his ppg would dip