Best Peak: Gretzky vs Lemieux vs Orr

[blundluntman]

You have the option of taking Gretzky, Lemieux or Orr at their peaks, who's your pick?

Gretzky: Of course, there's his 1982 season with 92 goals and 212 points, his 1985 season with 205 points and 47 points in the playoffs, and his 1986 season with 215 points and 163 assists

Lemieux: You have his 199 points in 1989, his 160 points in 60 games in 1993 after returning from cancer, and his 1991 playoff campaign with 44 points (surrounded by partial seasons averaging over 2ppg)

Orr: You have his legendary 1970 season where he became the first and only defenseman to win the art ross with 120 points, coupled with a Norris, Hart, and Conn Smythe. You have 1971 where he scored a record high 139 points for defensemen. And you have his 1975 season where he scored 46 goals and won another art ross with 135 points

Personally, I lean towards Orr because of how dominant he was on both ends of the ice, but I'm also tempted to take Gretzky as well. Who's your pick?

Click to read more...

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

Lemieux.

 

[pcruz]

God robbed us of the best Mario had to give.

For a few years, he was the ultimate offensive hockey player.

 

[BLNY]

I pick Wayne.

Wayne was such a cerebral and innovative player. Mario could make you look silly by stick handling his way through you - a skill that Wayne didn't necessarily have. Wayne played at such a level that he didn't really have to go through you. I don't say that to diminish Mario. It's just that Wayne knew where open space was at all times. When space was taken away, he chose to pass the puck through you to a team mate instead.

Ignoring anecdotal evidence, what's the defining metric?

If you take their first ten seasons in the NHL, Wayne averaged 2.37 points per game and Mario averaged 2.02. Mario's cancer shortened season of 160 points in 60 games was remarkable. That pace over 80 games falls just short of Wayne's 215 point season in 85-86. Had he played the full 84 games, he would have passed it, and the debate would have been pretty epic. His roster that year was certainly comparable to the Oilers hay day with Wayne. He never had a 200 point season though. Is the 199 in 88-89 with Rob Brown and Paul Coffey more impressive? An argument could be made, but I still pick Wayne.

 

[norrisnick]

Wayne
Orr
Mario

 

[Tad Mikowsky]

Gretzky actually got it done. Not like the pace merchant like Lemieux.

 

[Shane Diesel]

Gretzky's 215 point season is probably untouchable.

 

[Video Nasty]

Gretzky did everything that people have spent 35+ years projecting out for Lemieux. He did it first, quicker, better, and multiple times. Gretzky is the flesh and blood embodiment of Lemieux stat hound fantasies, but because it’s reality, it is less intriguing for some to discuss than a wonderful “What if a person was entirely different?” game.

 

[Albatros]

Gretzky actually got it done. Not like the pace merchant like Lemieux.

199 points in 76 games with Rob Brown and Bob Errey.

 

[Ben White]

199 points in 76 games with Rob Brown and Bob Errey.

This. I actually have Gretz 3rd here, he was healthy and played on the best team ever at his peak, that’s what makes him look better. Mario did more with less and what he did while suffering from permanent back problems and coming back from cancer was superhuman. Orr was probably the best out of the 3 for peak vs his peers however the league was much weaker back then so I’ll give the nod to Lemieux.

Peak play:
1. Mario
2. Bobby
3. Wayne

 

[Conspiracy Theorist]

199 points in 76 games with Rob Brown and Bob Errey.

Mario is better at that point.

 

[jigglysquishy]

199 points in 76 games with Rob Brown and Bob Errey.

Like when Gretzky put up 212 in 80 playing with Anderson (105 points) and Kurri (86 points). Setting the all time assists and goals record in the same season.

A year after setting the all time points record while next highest Oiler was 36th in points.

Or when he put up 205 in 74, including 153 in 51.

Or when he put up 215, including 2 assists per game.

Or when he put up 183 and no one else in the league hit 110 points. He had more EVP than anyone else had points. Had more assists than anyone in the league had points. And still lead in goals.

Lemieux was coulda, woulda, shoulda. Gretzky did it, multiple times.



Orr 1970 season is probably my vote for best single season. Best defensive player in the world while crushing the Art Ross race.

 

[Sasha Orlov]

Gretzky AINEC

 

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Like when Gretzky put up 212 in 80 playing with Anderson (105 points) and Kurri (86 points). Setting the all time assists and goals record in the same season.

A year after setting the all time points record while next highest Oiler was 36th in points.

Or when he put up 205 in 74, including 153 in 51.

Or when he put up 215, including 2 assists per game.

Or when he put up 183 and no one else in the league hit 110 points. He had more EVP than anyone else had points. Had more assists than anyone in the league had points. And still lead in goals.

Lemieux was coulda, woulda, shoulda. Gretzky did it, multiple times.



Orr 1970 season is probably my vote for best single season. Best defensive player in the world while crushing the Art Ross race.

Lemieux had a great career despite injuries. His peak/prime was as good as anybody. All respect to Gretzky, but he did not win without Edmonton. Edmonton did win without Gretzky.

 

[The Grim Reaper]

1. Orr, though I understand it was a much different/smaller league. Full 200 foot player, though.
2. Lemieux
3. Gretzky

 

[Albatros]

Like when Gretzky put up 212 in 80 playing with Anderson (105 points) and Kurri (86 points). Setting the all time assists and goals record in the same season.

A year after setting the all time points record while next highest Oiler was 36th in points.

Or when he put up 205 in 74, including 153 in 51.

Or when he put up 215, including 2 assists per game.

Or when he put up 183 and no one else in the league hit 110 points. He had more EVP than anyone else had points. Had more assists than anyone in the league had points. And still lead in goals.

Lemieux was coulda, woulda, shoulda. Gretzky did it, multiple times.

And Messier on PP, sure. Without those future HHoFers around him I doubt it's still 212 points.

 

[jigglysquishy]

And Messier on PP, sure. Without those future HHoFers around him I doubt it's still 212 points.

Are we really going to jerk off Messier's 15 powerplay points ? Gretzky had almost 200 more points.

 

[norrisnick]

And Messier on PP, sure. Without those future HHoFers around him I doubt it's still 212 points.

He had over 100 more points than Messier in '80, '81, and '82. Painting 19/20 yos as future HOFers and thus invalidating the achievements of Gretzky lapping the f*** out of said future HOFers is absurd.

 

[Video Nasty]

And Messier on PP, sure. Without those future HHoFers around him I doubt it's still 212 points.

I dug into the stats for 1981-1982 to validate what you recklessly preach.

Gretzky assisted on 6 Messier PP goals and Messier assisted on 2 Gretzky PP goals. That’s 8 points they shared on the PP. Edmonton scored 87 PP goals that season.

Try again.

 

[Tad Mikowsky]

And Messier on PP, sure. Without those future HHoFers around him I doubt it's still 212 points.

Yeah your analysis on talent is dubious at best.

This. I actually have Gretz 3rd here, he was healthy and played on the best team ever at his peak, that’s what makes him look better. Mario did more with less and what he did while suffering from permanent back problems and coming back from cancer was superhuman. Orr was probably the best out of the 3 for peak vs his peers however the league was much weaker back then so I’ll give the nod to Lemieux.

Peak play:
1. Mario
2. Bobby
3. Wayne

Actually playing hockey games, somehow makes player looks better.

Wow.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

Lol calling an 199 point player a shoulda woulda is wild.

 

[Tad Mikowsky]

Lol calling an 199 point player a shoulda woulda is wild.

What’s more wild is having a guy who is all about CUPS AND BEING A WINNER, but suddenly that doesn’t matter because his precious player won less than the actual better player.

Lemieux is the king of what ifs. Pace merchant.

 

[Albatros]

He had over 100 more points than Messier in '80, '81, and '82. Painting 19/20 yos as future HOFers and thus invalidating the achievements of Gretzky lapping the f*** out of said future HOFers is absurd.

Anderson and Kurri were 21 at the start of the season, Messier in January. All thus older than Rob Brown when Lemieux scored 199 (20 all season, Bob Errey 24).

 

[wintersej]

The fact that Orr was essentially done by the time he was 26 (for reference, Adam Fox turns 26 this year) means he has an impossible uphill battle when it comes to career accomplishments vs Gretzky.

But for one season?

Yes Gretz had 70 odd more points in his top seasons versus Orr on 1971, but that +124 blows anything Gretz did out of the water and points to Orr’s insane two way impact.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

What’s more wild is having a guy who is all about CUPS AND BEING A WINNER, but suddenly that doesn’t matter because his precious player won less than the actual better player.

Lemieux is the king of what ifs. Pace merchant.

You want to say Gretzky was the greater player that's fine. He had a healthy prime while lemieux was ravaged my spine and cancer during his peak. Being healthy doesn't mean he was a BETTER than Lemieux.