Value of: Ben Bishop

[oilerbear]

You are Oiler, how is it possible you can make fun of another team?

Organizations are measured by playoff success.
22 teams each year do not win a series.
26 teams do not win 2 series.
2 teams win championships.

Since 05-06
The oilers have 1 conf championship
And 3 series wins.

There are a whole collection of other teams fans who
Make fun of the oilers
Yet there teams org has not come close to oilers success since 05-06.

Start with the organizations without a conf championship.

 

[nhlfan9191]

Organizations are measured by playoff success.
22 teams each year do not win a series.
26 teams do not win 2 series.
2 teams win championships.

Since 05-06
The oilers have 1 conf championship
And 3 series wins.

There are a whole collection of other teams fans who
Make fun of the oilers
Yet there teams org has not come close to oilers success since 05-06.

Start with the organizations without a conf championship.

But what are the stats if you start tracing stats from 06/07? Not good. Don't cherry pick a year to make yourself look better. I love the Oilers but they've been BADDDD since 2009. Which is 7 years.

 

[oilerbear]

Conf champs since 05-06
CHI 3
PIT 3
LAK 2
BOS 2
DET 2
ANA
CAR
SJS
TMP
NYR
NJD
VCR
PHI
OTT
EDM

No Conf Championships since 05-06
My
Tor
Cbj
Wsh
Fld
Nyi
Buf
Dal
Stl
Nsh
Min
Col
Arz
Wpg
Cgy
If your org does not WIN a championship?
Your org is one of 28 losing teams that year.

 

[hockeykicker]

But what are the stats if you start tracing stats from 06/07? Not good. Don't cherry pick a year to make yourself look better. I love the Oilers but they've been BADDDD since 2009. Which is 7 years.

really dont think its cherrypicking since its 10 years ago. most people dont say 3 years or 7 years, they round

 

[oilerbear]

But what are the stats if you start tracing stats from 06/07? Not good. Don't cherry pick a year to make yourself look better. I love the Oilers but they've been BADDDD since 2009. Which is 7 years.

The goal of any org is to win championships.

Any true sports fan knows that you look at sports history look at critical points of change.
Modern era.
Leafs font championships zero.
End of the dead puck era? 05-06

You asking to exclude the first season of speeding up the game is cherry picking of the highest order.
You are asking to rewrite history.
I find that request to change a critical start to an era to suit your agenda counter to any ethical historian.

To further attack my character by modifying hockey history?
I cannot think you to be unethical.
Just ignorant to the historical significance to the change in hockey.

 

[Jacksover9s]

really dont think its cherrypicking since its 10 years ago. most people dont say 3 years or 7 years, they round

It was actually 11 years ago.

 

[hockeykicker]

It was actually 11 years ago.

oops, they told me there would be no math on hfboards

thanks for the correction

 

[Bleedred]

Agreed, a team like Dallas should be dong everything in their power to get him considering their goalies are awful.

Last 3 years, Niemi .911, and Lehtonen .910 for SV%

By far, their biggest weakness.

Just look at the last 2 years of Lehtonen, it probably goes down to a .904 or .905 over the last two years. He was still good in 13-14, then seemed to completely throw a rod in the 14-15 season, which was good enough to cause the second highest scoring team in the league to actually miss the playoffs.

I think Niemi CAN bounce back, as his even strength save percentage last year was on par with his last 2 years as a Shark. His special teams save percentage was awful, particularly his save percentage while his team was on the power play. He let in something like 11 shorthanded goals on 33 shots against, while his team was on the power play. That's almost unheard of. He was vastly superior at even strength to Lehtonen, while Lehtonen was better on special teams.

But I don't think Niemi is a championship caliber goaltender, I think he's better than Lehtonen but not by much. Bishop makes them a legit Stanley Cup threat.

With the two Finns, they're damned lucky to even be in the playoffs at all.

 

[tjs*]

IMHO as an outsider as well I'd rank Schneids about 2 spots at most behind Bish right now. Also depends on who or how you rank your top3, since I'd rank Bish 4/5 Schneids 6/7.

But the biggest task is finding out if the Bolts are at a point where they have to deal him where I feel they circle back to Dallas and take Niemi for a year as a dump, plus cap space next season. But I'd think this is at the point where it's necessary to bridge Kuch.

Bishop's contract expires next summer when we really need cap space, while Niemi's lasts a year longer. Only way we take Niemi is if Filppula is going back the other way. But that just balances out their contracts; Filppula is far more valuable as a defensive third line center than Niemi is as a backup goalie at essentially the same price. So we would still require some compensation for swapping Filppula for Niemi AND that's before we even get into the issue of compensation for Bishop.

 

[Ezekial]

nm tttt

 

[danielpalfredsson]

High value, and if TB hold on to him, at the very least they'll get a huge haul at the deadline. Calgary should have pulled the trigger on him at the draft.

If they badly need the cap space right away, they might have to take the best offer.

At the very least, they keep him for another playoff run and maybe even get some added value if Vegas negotiates a contract and selects him, which lets TB keep their next best unprotected player.

 

[bossram]

Just look at the last 2 years of Lehtonen, it probably goes down to a .904 or .905 over the last two years. He was still good in 13-14, then seemed to completely throw a rod in the 14-15 season, which was good enough to cause the second highest scoring team in the league to actually miss the playoffs.

I think Niemi CAN bounce back, as his even strength save percentage last year was on par with his last 2 years as a Shark. His special teams save percentage was awful, particularly his save percentage while his team was on the power play. He let in something like 11 shorthanded goals on 33 shots against, while his team was on the power play. That's almost unheard of. He was vastly superior at even strength to Lehtonen, while Lehtonen was better on special teams.

But I don't think Niemi is a championship caliber goaltender, I think he's better than Lehtonen but not by much. Bishop makes them a legit Stanley Cup threat.

With the two Finns, they're damned lucky to even be in the playoffs at all.

Agreed.

I think Dallas could be a legit true Stanley Cup contender with above average goaltending. They have the scoring up front and as a team are very good with possession. They need a goalie. Especially with the blueline they have, a Niemi/Lehtonen combo will sink them.

Surely Nich + Honka would get Yzerman on the phone for Bishop?

 

[nhlfan9191]

The goal of any org is to win championships.

Any true sports fan knows that you look at sports history look at critical points of change.
Modern era.
Leafs font championships zero.
End of the dead puck era? 05-06

You asking to exclude the first season of speeding up the game is cherry picking of the highest order.
You are asking to rewrite history.
I find that request to change a critical start to an era to suit your agenda counter to any ethical historian.

To further attack my character by modifying hockey history?
I cannot think you to be unethical.
Just ignorant to the historical significance to the change in hockey.

As a person who lives in Saskatchewan and attends many Oiler's games, I could care less about "the official end of the dead luck era". The Oilers ran a hot goalie and puck luck to get to the finals much like the Flames did in 04. That team was in absolutely in NO means a contender with their roster.

 

[eviohh26*]

I feel his value isn't as high as it could be. Seeing how TB has painted themselves into a corner where they need to trade him. The cap is going to be a pain in their arse if they dont. Druin Kucherov going to need contracts. See teams see that TB is forced to move TB for cap dump reasons.. What i heard Dallas wanted him but needed to send a goalie back which defeats the purpose of the cap dump. I believe the asking price was low first high 2nd.

 

[varano]

For guys complaining about the 1 year left on the deal, typically what happens is the team is granted permission to speak to him about expectations for contract extension and a handshake agreement is made before the trade occurs.

Much like the Freddy andersen deal.

 

[WhatWhat]

Agreed.

I think Dallas could be a legit true Stanley Cup contender with above average goaltending. They have the scoring up front and as a team are very good with possession. They need a goalie. Especially with the blueline they have, a Niemi/Lehtonen combo will sink them.

Surely Nich + Honka would get Yzerman on the phone for Bishop?

Nichuskin + Honka would 100% get Tampa on the phone. Only problem is Dallas would never offer that much

 

[FirstRowUpperDeck]

I have seen a lot of speculation that TB waned Honka...and Nill won't trade Honka, period. I don't think he wants to trade a No. 1, even if there is a chance that with Bishop, its the 29th or 30th pick, although I would do that for starters, in a heart beat. Future is one thing, but the Cup window is limited, and it seems like they are in position to think in the here and now.

So, it seems the issue is Honka and getting rid of a goalie for the Stars, and cap space for the Bolts. I think a deal gets done, maybe 20 games into the season when the Bolts are comfy that vaz is really a starter, and maybe the Stars aren't comfy with theirs. However, at that point, price probably goes up, as the contract values come down.

There is a deal to be had, but both sides playing hardball. The great thing is, if the deal is done, there is a fair chance that Bishop faces his old team in the finals, and wouldn't the NHL like that little story line?

 

[SML]

I don't know how he is vs the rest of the league but it's like trying to get a puck past the great Wall of China whenever he plays the Rangers. If I were the Flyers or the Islanders, I'd easily give up a first for him. But the reality is that the market is not good for goalies. A team giving a first may well be bidding against themselves. I'd offer a 2nd and tell Tampa if you get a better offer, call me back for a counteror chance to match.

 

[WhatWhat]

I have seen a lot of speculation that TB waned Honka...and Nill won't trade Honka, period. I don't think he wants to trade a No. 1, even if there is a chance that with Bishop, its the 29th or 30th pick, although I would do that for starters, in a heart beat. Future is one thing, but the Cup window is limited, and it seems like they are in position to think in the here and now.

So, it seems the issue is Honka and getting rid of a goalie for the Stars, and cap space for the Bolts. I think a deal gets done, maybe 20 games into the season when the Bolts are comfy that vaz is really a starter, and maybe the Stars aren't comfy with theirs. However, at that point, price probably goes up, as the contract values come down.

There is a deal to be had, but both sides playing hardball. The great thing is, if the deal is done, there is a fair chance that Bishop faces his old team in the finals, and wouldn't the NHL like that little story line?

I don't think Nill would have any problem giving up a first. They did it many times woth him in Detroit and he was willing to do it last year. If all it cost us was a first and TB was willing to do that then Bishop would likely be in Dallas by now

 

[GoldiFox]

I'd happily do CAR 1st + Lack for Bishop before the season starts. This as a STH who would like to see a Playoff run next year. Canes have more than enough cash to re-sign Bishop at a high $$.

 

[Captain Timo]

Tampa should just keep him. He's a top-5 goalie, and they're already a contending team. They'll likely get a first as the base, with small pieces in addition. IMO, the difference between Vasilevsky and Bishop is too large right now to sacrifice a potential cup run for a first. Yes, Vasi has loads of potential and can become elite, but Bishop is already elite.

 

[JAY7791]

Tampa should just keep him. He's a top-5 goalie, and they're already a contending team. They'll likely get a first as the base, with small pieces in addition. IMO, the difference between Vasilevsky and Bishop is too large right now to sacrifice a potential cup run for a first. Yes, Vasi has loads of potential and can become elite, but Bishop is already elite.

Exactly, well said.

 

[DFC]

Bishop is a franchise-changer. He operates like a 3rd defenseman, which gets your defense out of trouble way, way more than other goalies. TB gets pinned in their zone a lot more when Bishop isn't playing. His rebound control, and general puck control, is what separates him from other goalies.

He doesn't have to face the quality of shots that most goalies do because he so rarely gives up second and third opportunities.

I think calling him a top-5 goalie is actually a little conservative. The only goalie I see who's clearly better than Bishop is Carey Price. Other than that, I'd probably take Bishop over anybody. He's so much more valuable than simply a guy who stops pucks. He manages games from the crease.

 

[DarthProbert]

Tampa should just keep him. He's a top-5 goalie, and they're already a contending team. They'll likely get a first as the base, with small pieces in addition. IMO, the difference between Vasilevsky and Bishop is too large right now to sacrifice a potential cup run for a first. Yes, Vasi has loads of potential and can become elite, but Bishop is already elite.

I would assume that's their preferred position, while they attempt to move other player(s) to make room for Kucherov. But if they can't move a Filppula or Callahan, then maybe Bishop would be their last resort. Can't always choose who you want to move if the deals aren't there(see: Hall for Larsson).

 

[danielpalfredsson]

Tampa should just keep him. He's a top-5 goalie, and they're already a contending team. They'll likely get a first as the base, with small pieces in addition. IMO, the difference between Vasilevsky and Bishop is too large right now to sacrifice a potential cup run for a first. Yes, Vasi has loads of potential and can become elite, but Bishop is already elite.

I don't think it is just getting a first that is the motivation in trading Bishop away and going with Vasilevskiy.

Tampa has loads of talent they are trying to keep locked down. They need to manage their cap. Vasilveskiy at 3.5M from 2017-2020 gives them a huge advantage compared to Bishop at 7M+ during that same time period.

So they aren't just getting whatever futures they obtain for Bishop, they are also getting the difference in cap space between Vasilevskiy and Bishop, which could be as much as 4 million in cap space.