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OT: Bears & NFL Talk 98

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Sarava said:
Caleb Williams will answer that question. We'll see. I'm comfortable where we stand on this.
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... until we trade the pick. :naughty: (for the record I've maintained my stance on I don't mind the Bears trading the pick if it means getting a haul back again and the guys they draft hit.. I selfishly really want MHJ though and for them to stay in that top 3 range if they do trade it).
 
At the time Poles made that trade he had 100% certainty to make his QB Stroud...he traded it for what a 20-25% chance that it would be Caleb...clearly he didn't evaluate Stroud properly because he would never ever hit on 19 to see if he could get 21...
 
TLEH said:
Caleb Williams doesn't have to do with my post is my point....It worked out that Carolina was terrible and we got the 1.01 but the day the trade was made. DJ, 9, 2nd 2025, 2024 1st is not remotely worth what Stroud is now.

We weren't trading Justin and we thought he would jump this year. He didn't. We didn't "miss" Stroud really. I get that part.
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You missed the 23 2nd, which turned in to Stevenson.

Either way - IMO it doesnt matter comparing what we got that day to what Stroud is now. Either compare what we got to Stroud at that moment, or compare Stroud right now to the total package we have right now.
 
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Sarava said:
You missed the 23 2nd, which turned in to Stevenson.

Either way - IMO it doesnt matter comparing what we got that day to what Stroud is now. Either compare what we got to Stroud at that moment, or compare Stroud right now to the total package we have right now.
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I mean add 2 more 1sts and Houston still isn't trading Stroud.

How doesn't it matter? It matters when talking about what we should learn from that and do this year.

We were in similar organizational situations. We traded the pick, Houston didn't and they're hosting a home playoff game. We shouldn't be moving 1.01 in any circumstance this year.
 
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TLEH said:
I mean add 2 more 1sts and Houston still isn't trading Stroud.

How doesn't it matter? It matters when talking about what we should learn from that and do this year.

We were in similar organizational situations. We traded the pick, Houston didn't and they're hosting a home playoff game. We shouldn't be moving 1.01 in any circumstance this year.
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They also have a GM who can pick a WR that isn't trash
 
again whats lost in all this trade talk...Poles traded a lotto ticket that was a winner for a 20-30% chance he would get a shot at Caleb...its a f***ing idiotic move in hindsight, don't care about DJ Moore and Stevenson, he clearly thought not much of Stroud and clearly he was wrong because you would never make the move when presented those odds of Carolina being that bad
 
TLEH said:
I mean add 2 more 1sts and Houston still isn't trading Stroud.

How doesn't it matter? It matters when talking about what we should learn from that and do this year.

We were in similar organizational situations. We traded the pick, Houston didn't and they're hosting a home playoff game. We shouldn't be moving 1.01 in any circumstance this year.
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I agree we should keep the pick and take Caleb. The more I've watched videos and studied and read up..the more I'm all in on Caleb.

The comparison to Houston...they were further along than the Bears. That's not a valid comparison and you know it. The Bears jettisoned their 3 best defensive players just last season.

And I'll add that the Carolina trade may go down as one of the most lopsided trades in NFL history. Super job Ryan Poles.
 
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Sarava said:
I agree we should keep the pick and take Caleb. The more I've watched videos and studied and read up..the more I'm all in on Caleb.

The comparison to Houston...they were further along than the Bears. That's not a valid comparison and you know it. The Bears jettisoned their 3 best defensive players just last season.

And I'll add that the Carolina trade may go down as one of the most lopsided trades in NFL history. Super job Ryan Poles.
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They had to throw a 4th and whatever for us to even get 1. We both were rebuilding. They were likely a bit ahead but not by anything significant. It was close.
 
Poles traded with the Carolina Panthers not the Houston Texans. Carolina was the team who missed on Stroud (and I'm still not getting a hard on for a 1st year QB like some here who I've seen struggle in year 2). At the end of the day sure the Bears got lucky but the deal turned out very good for the Bears so far with Carolina picking Bryce and now have a chance to pick a QB who SHOULD be better than both of those guys. Now whether you trust the Bears to actually develop a QB, something they've never done in their history before? That's also valid.
 
Toews2Bickell said:
again whats lost in all this trade talk...Poles traded a lotto ticket that was a winner for a 20-30% chance he would get a shot at Caleb...its a f***ing idiotic move in hindsight, don't care about DJ Moore and Stevenson, he clearly thought not much of Stroud and clearly he was wrong because you would never make the move when presented those odds of Carolina being that bad
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What is also being lost is nobody saw this coming from Stroud. Nobody predicted he would be a superstar as a rookie. Yes Poles missed that along with every one else in the NFL.

Houston's GM spoke earlier this year about how lucky it turned out they wont the Colts game. Because they were taking Young if they had #1.
 
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clydesdale line said:
Poles traded with the Carolina Panthers not the Houston Texans. Carolina was the team who missed on Stroud (and I'm still not getting a hard on for a 1st year QB like some here who I've seen struggle in year 2). At the end of the day sure the Bears got lucky but the deal turned out very good for the Bears so far with Carolina picking Bryce and now have a chance to pick a QB who SHOULD be better than both of those guys. Now whether you trust the Bears to actually develop a QB, something they've never done in their history before? That's also valid.
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Bears missed on Stroud, and Carolina...they never make that trade if they properly evaluated him...but hopefully Caleb is the real deal and its not Mahomes vs Trubisky for the next decade

Sarava said:
What is also being lost is nobody saw this coming from Stroud. Nobody predicted he would be a superstar as a rookie. Yes Poles missed that along with every one else in the NFL.

Houston's GM spoke earlier this year about how lucky it turned out they wont the Colts game. Because they were taking Young if they had #1.
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its kind of bizarre how criminally underrated he was as a prospect, for no reason really, the numbers were always there against elite competition
 
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I feel like my head is going to explode listening to some of these takes. The Bears are in a beautiful position going forward. The transformation of this franchise in less than 2 years under Ryan Poles is remarkable, IMO.

And all I've seen all week is bitch, bitch bitch from probably 80% of you guys. It's like BWC has infected you all with his negativity.
 
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TLEH said:
Caleb Williams doesn't have to do with my post is my point....It worked out that Carolina was terrible and we got the 1.01 but the day the trade was made. DJ, 9, 2nd 2025, 2024 1st is not remotely worth what Stroud is now.

We weren't trading Justin and we thought he would jump this year. He didn't. We didn't "miss" Stroud really. I get that part.
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So you're judging what the Bears received at the time, against what Stroud is now? And you don't see how silly that is? You judge a trade when it plays out. This is all hindsight and cherry picking.
 
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Yeah, unless Stroud takes a massive step back in year 2 (not impossible, look at Mac Jones) Or the QB they take this year is as good or better, then the Bears simply f***ed up.
 
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Pez68 said:
So you're judging what the Bears received at the time, against what Stroud is now? And you don't see how silly that is? You judge a trade when it plays out. This is all hindsight and cherry picking.
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we're all judging the now because at the time we didn't know that pick would result in the opportunity to draft caleb, it was a 20-30% type lotto ticket to take him...lets say in some hypothetical world the carolina pick is 7-10 and bears are also in that range, its a f***ing disaster if that happens...and thats how probabilities work, they hit the 20-30% outcome, good to be lucky but disaster when they had 100% chance at stroud...it was really a bet on fields and that was wrong too
 
Pez68 said:
So you're judging what the Bears received at the time, against what Stroud is now? And you don't see how silly that is? You judge a trade when it plays out. This is all hindsight and cherry picking.
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Everything I'm saying is being taken wrong. I am happy with how the trade turned out. We shouldn't do it again. THAT is my argument.
 
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