BCHL adding 5 Alberta teams

[Yukon Joe]

So - in order to get a lawsuit started I don't know if some Canadian kid suing the NCAA saying "I want the opportunity to be given a scholarship" would be enough - I don't know if the kid would have standing. Such a lawsuit would also take at least a couple years to work its way through the system.

You'd need a NCAA college willing to say "we want to offer a scholarship to this Canadian kid" and for the college (plus maybe also the kid) to sue. But I'm not sure if there are any NCAA colleges who would want to do so.

 

[landy92mack29]

The drama seems to be kinda over with the 5 AJHL teams joining the BCHL effective immediately. Will play each other to finish the year then Alberta Champion will face BC Champion

 

[Slats432]

Yes, and the AJHL will continue on without them. I have requested a refund on my AJHL season tickets.

 

[Isaac Nootin]

The drama seems to be kinda over with the 5 AJHL teams joining the BCHL effective immediately. Will play each other to finish the year then Alberta Champion will face BC Champion

Beautiful!

I look forward to a Penticton/Brooks series, lol

 

[Giant Panda]

The drama seems to be kinda over with the 5 AJHL teams joining the BCHL effective immediately. Will play each other to finish the year then Alberta Champion will face BC Champion

The AJHL f***ed around and found out.

 

[joestevens29]

The drama seems to be kinda over with the 5 AJHL teams joining the BCHL effective immediately. Will play each other to finish the year then Alberta Champion will face BC Champion

I wonder if it's over. Does the AJHL now sue these teams for breach of contract or agreement or something. Maybe Yukon knows if the AJHL can go after them or not

 

[landy92mack29]

I wonder if it's over. Does the AJHL now sue these teams for breach of contract or agreement or something. Maybe Yukon knows if the AJHL can go after them or not

Will be interesting but the AJHL kind of forced the 5 teams to do this now so not sure how that'd hold up. The 5 teams were still committed to playing out this season in the AJHL then going to the BCHL next year so were still in good standing and didn't announce anything themselves. It was the BCHL who announced it(because it was apparently going to be leaked by the media but think BCHL just wanted extra attention). Then the AJHL canceled their games so they made the move now.

 

[Yukon Joe]

I wonder if it's over. Does the AJHL now sue these teams for breach of contract or agreement or something. Maybe Yukon knows if the AJHL can go after them or not

So there was a phase when my kids liked to ask me "hey Dad can you sue someone for X"?

To which I always replied "You can sue anyone for anything. The question is whether you'll win".

I have not a hot clue whether the AJHL can sue and win against the 5 teams, or the BCHL, or the reverse. You'd have to go through a lot of documents and contracts.

I'm just making a random guess that that based on this resolution there might be mutual waivers signed by all sides in order to just move on in peace. But just a guess.

 

[joestevens29]

So there was a phase when my kids liked to ask me "hey Dad can you sue someone for X"?

To which I always replied "You can sue anyone for anything. The question is whether you'll win".

I have not a hot clue whether the AJHL can sue the 5 teams, or the BCHL, or the reverse. You'd have to go through a lot of documents and contracts.

I'm just making a random guess that that based on this resolution there might be mutual waivers signed by all sides in order to just move on in peace. But just a guess.

Honestly, given what's going on in Canada already it probably is best to mutually split.

Also keep that relationship good just in case things change and teams realize they want back

 

[MeHateHe]

I wonder if it's over. Does the AJHL now sue these teams for breach of contract or agreement or something. Maybe Yukon knows if the AJHL can go after them or not

I don't think it's over. Based on the interview with the Olds governor, I would expect there will be some recruiting by the AJHL to get new teams, and there remains rumours that some current BCHL teams are at least considering stepping away from the independent league. The only thing I would take to the bank is that the 22 teams currently in the BCHL will not be the final roster when the 2024-25 season starts.

 

[MeHateHe]

The drama seems to be kinda over with the 5 AJHL teams joining the BCHL effective immediately. Will play each other to finish the year then Alberta Champion will face BC Champion

I wonder who will be refereeing these games. One has to assume that at least some of the officials currently working the AJHL will not give up their Hockey Canada membership.

 

[joestevens29]

I wonder who will be refereeing these games. One has to assume that at least some of the officials currently working the AJHL will not give up their Hockey Canada membership.

How did the BCHL deal with it? They seem to be running a league with the same issue

 

[Corso]

So - in order to get a lawsuit started I don't know if some Canadian kid suing the NCAA saying "I want the opportunity to be given a scholarship" would be enough - I don't know if the kid would have standing. Such a lawsuit would also take at least a couple years to work its way through the system.

You'd need a NCAA college willing to say "we want to offer a scholarship to this Canadian kid" and for the college (plus maybe also the kid) to sue. But I'm not sure if there are any NCAA colleges who would want to do so.

More of case of the NCAA being proactive and avoid a future lawsuits. Im sure the powers that be are stating that there is no sound legal basis denying CHL players eligibility.

 

[oldunclehue]

How did the BCHL deal with it? They seem to be running a league with the same issue

I ref and am HC and HockeyMB certified....but I still do non sanctioned games and tournaments. I'd assume the BCHL has a list of their own refs or they will find some willing to do the games in Alberta. If HC suspends those refs from HC sanctioned games....I would assume that could result in legal action as well. Refs don't sign a contract with HC or with the Provincial body and many many refs dabble in non-sanctioned tournaments and rec leagues without being punished.

I wonder if it's over. Does the AJHL now sue these teams for breach of contract or agreement or something. Maybe Yukon knows if the AJHL can go after them or not

I would assume the 5 organizations got a legal opinion on what they could do before they did. Leagues don't own the teams that are in them. Leagues have teams fold, move, change ownership and change leagues. So why should the AJHL be any different. We shall see what legal ramifications come of this. I'm sure lawsuits will come from both sides if it goes there.

 

[Yukon Joe]

I would assume the 5 organizations got a legal opinion on what they could do before they did. Leagues don't own the teams that are in them. Leagues have teams fold, move, change ownership and change leagues. So why should the AJHL be any different. We shall see what legal ramifications come of this. I'm sure lawsuits will come from both sides if it goes there.

All I can say is I'm not convinced anyone got a legal opinion before all of this went down...

 

[oldunclehue]

All I can say is I'm not convinced anyone got a legal opinion before all of this went down...

With the amount of money involved in these teams and this league....how could you not look at getting a legal opinion.

I don't know how the league and teams work out any form of agreement to play in the league at the start of the year or even if they do. I know the organization I am tied to doesn't sign a contract to say we will be in this league for X amount of years no questions ask. Year to year teams are up in the air at the league level simply based on finances. I'm going to do some research in regards to it tonight and find out.

Minor hockey associations can change leagues any time they want based on a year to year thing...so why would Jr A be different?

 

[MeHateHe]

I ref and am HC and HockeyMB certified....but I still do non sanctioned games and tournaments. I'd assume the BCHL has a list of their own refs or they will find some willing to do the games in Alberta. If HC suspends those refs from HC sanctioned games....I would assume that could result in legal action as well. Refs don't sign a contract with HC or with the Provincial body and many many refs dabble in non-sanctioned tournaments and rec leagues without being punished.

BC Hockey made it crystal clear that referees who worked in the BCHL this year would not be able to work any BC Hockey-sanctioned games, and they were excluded from the WHL roster as well. The BCHL lost a lot of very good officials because of it. Hockey Canada says it's a matter of insurance - the same argument they use for players/teams, and I don't know if I've ever understood that argument.

The argument I do understand is money. Hockey Canada spends a lot of money educating and training referees. They subsidize clinics for officials at the start of every year and fund training as the season goes on. A referee who starts at age 12 will have several thousand dollars - probably in the low five figures - invested in them by Hockey Canada, their branch and their local association by the time they hit age 20. So for a league that is operating outside of their sanctions to come in and scoop up their officials (even if those officials were still accessible to Hockey Canada, their work in a non-sanctioned league will take priority and renders them largely unusable in sanctioned hockey) that's a bitter pill to swallow. Is it fair to the individual referees? Maybe not, but in all of this there are winners and losers.

So, yes, Hockey Canada will do the same in Alberta. Guys who are currently skating in the WHL will not skate in this reconstituted BCHL this year, so that leaves some referees out

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

and the expanded player pool will allow for a few more D-1 teams to join.

The rest of your post is fantastic, but this part is completely non-factual. There are plenty of reasons why there aren't more NCAA DI hockey programs but a limited player pool isn't one of them. There are absolutely zero NCAA DI athletic departments which are choosing not to add hockey because they don't think they can build a competitive program.

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

At the end of the day, I think this is a great outcome for everyone involved.

Don't know why the five teams were so cagy about their plans in the first place, but I'm happy for the players at least.

 

[Corso]

The rest of your post is fantastic, but this part is completely non-factual. There are plenty of reasons why there aren't more NCAA DI hockey programs but a limited player pool isn't one of them. There are absolutely zero NCAA DI athletic departments which are choosing not to add hockey because they don't think they can build a competitive program.

Maybe so but having an expanded player pool could be the nudge that an athletic program needs.

 

[Giant Panda]

At the end of the day, I think this is a great outcome for everyone involved.

Don't know why the five teams were so cagy about their plans in the first place, but I'm happy for the players at least.

I mean, look how the AJHL and HC responded to the situation. Can't blame the teams for wanting to wait a few more months to disclose it.

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

With the amount of money involved in these teams and this league....how could you not look at getting a legal opinion.

I don't know how the league and teams work out any form of agreement to play in the league at the start of the year or even if they do. I know the organization I am tied to doesn't sign a contract to say we will be in this league for X amount of years no questions ask. Year to year teams are up in the air at the league level simply based on finances. I'm going to do some research in regards to it tonight and find out.

Minor hockey associations can change leagues any time they want based on a year to year thing...so why would Jr A be different?

As someone who covers multiple junior A franchises in Manitoba, I would be a little surprised if any entity aside from the BCHL formally consulted a Lawyer on their moves in this saga.

I mean, look how the AJHL and HC responded to the situation. Can't blame the teams for wanting to wait a few more months to disclose it.

Again, The rumour I heard is a media member in Alberta had the scoop and was about to publish, so the BCHL jumped the gun.

I'm somewhat inclined to believe that, considering the haphazard way this happened.

But like I said, I think this is a good outcome that should make everyone pretty happy in the short term.

The AJHL gets to "kick out" the rebels immediately, the rebel teams (and their players) get to play out their season, including an inter-provincial championship, and the BCHL gets a bunch of press about sticking it to Hockey Canada in a way.

That's a win-win-win from my perspective.

 

[jetsmooseice]

I wonder if it's over. Does the AJHL now sue these teams for breach of contract or agreement or something. Maybe Yukon knows if the AJHL can go after them or not

Considering that junior A hockey is a bit of a shoestring operation, it seems like an unwise idea for the AJHL to start suing the rebel 5. It's not like the rebel 5 (the owners maybe, but I assume these teams are all incorporated) are that deep pocketed with lucrative revenue streams worth chasing in the courts. The AJHL would have to pony up quite a bit for the lawsuit itself, do the remaining teams want to bankroll expensive litigation just to prove a point?

Unless there are sacks of cash waiting at the end of all this, there is not much benefit to pursuing this in the courts. Especially considering if the BCHL and AJHL may have to reconcile with each other before too long if the junior hockey landscape changes due to the NCAA.

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

Maybe so but having an expanded player pool could be the nudge that an athletic program needs.

"Recruitment" is not on the minds of any athletic director, booster, or stakeholder of a potential new NCAA DI program. The rest of your post was dead on and very accurate. I don't even know where you would get the thought that this is, it doesn't even rationally make sense. Stonehill added NCAA DI hockey with the rest of their program moving up, they still are losing to NCAA DI teams. LIU lost to an ACHA their first season and lost to NCAA DIII teams as recently as last season. Augustana is having a decent first season despite most of their team being transfers, including one from a NCAA DIII school and a lot of their freshman are middle of the line NAHL alumni.

Like I said, take a step back and look at what you just posted again. It doesn't even rationally make sense.

 

[Corso]

"Recruitment" is not on the minds of any athletic director, booster, or stakeholder of a potential new NCAA DI program. The rest of your post was dead on and very accurate. I don't even know where you would get the thought that this is, it doesn't even rationally make sense. Stonehill added NCAA DI hockey with the rest of their program moving up, they still are losing to NCAA DI teams. LIU lost to an ACHA their first season and lost to NCAA DIII teams as recently as last season. Augustana is having a decent first season despite most of their team being transfers, including one from a NCAA DIII school and a lot of their freshman are middle of the line NAHL alumni.

Like I said, take a step back and look at what you just posted again. It doesn't even rationally make sense.

I agree that an expanded player pool would not be a primary factor in a college choosing to form a D-1 hockey team but can you not at least entertain the notion that it could be at least a minor factor? Perhaps there is another Stonehill out there who is looking at the lack of competitiveness/success Stonehill is having and saying perhaps we should wait in going in that direction? If a larger pool were available that school might conclude that they could achieve success on the ice much quicker than Stonehill and that could bring about more sponsorship, increased attendance and greater buy in from the student body and surrounding community.

Perhaps you are entirely correct and what I posted makes no sense but maybe an increased player pool could provide a tiny nudge??