Proposal: Bad contracts and draft picks to the Calgary Flames

[Bouboumaster]

Bizarre. That's actually pretty fair. I think it takes a 1st and 2nd to move Anderson. It's just the exact wrong position for us. Too many wings. We have need at D and C. We have 10 NHL wings for 8 spots already. I'd do this if we can move out 2 wings this offseason.

I could see a scenario where we'd move out a Sharangovich if extension talks haven't gone well. Mangiapane and Kuzmenko probably move at the TDL. Might make some sense at the TDL.

How about Calgary's 2025 1st, Montréal 2024 3rd, Justin Barron and Josh Anderson, for Future Considerations?

You'd have your 2025 1st back, which you'll need, a solid 3rd round pick from this year that'll be close of a second pick and Barron, a RHD, is a good prospect with a lot of great tools, but won't play in Montréal because he's behind both Reinbacher and Mailloux in our depth chart

For us, it's 5,5M that we take out of our cap hit, and can invest elsewhere

 

[viper0220]

The Flames have a massive amount of cap space especially if they trade Markstrom.

Offer your bad contracts and draft pick(s) attached to it to the Flames.

I thought about this and I think, it is a good and load on picks.

 

[Double Dion]

How about Calgary's 2025 1st, Montréal 2024 3rd, Justin Barron and Josh Anderson, for Future Considerations?

You'd have your 2025 1st back, which you'll need, a solid 3rd round pick from this year that'll be close of a second pick and Barron, a RHD, is a good prospect with a lot of great tools, but won't play in Montréal because he's behind both Reinbacher and Mailloux in our depth chart

For us, it's 5,5M that we take out of our cap hit, and can invest elsewhere

That's likely the FLA pick, which is pretty late. It's a solid proposal. I'd need to move the wingers out first, but if I could do that I'd probably do this even though I'm not an Anderson fan. I'm likely in the minority on this, but I think the idea of a quick re-tool in Calgary is extremely foolish. I think we need 4-5 years, not 2-3. We have one young piece that COULD BE a core piece in Wolf. We need 3-4 pieces like that. We aren't Vancouver re-tooling with a Hughes, Pettersson and Demko. We might have the Demko, but definitely lack the other mainstays.

 

[viper0220]

How about Josh Anderson?

Yes, please just give us back our pick. F'you Brad Trevling.

How about Calgary's 2025 1st, Montréal 2024 3rd, Justin Barron and Josh Anderson, for Future Considerations?

You'd have your 2025 1st back, which you'll need, a solid 3rd round pick from this year that'll be close of a second pick and Barron, a RHD, is a good prospect with a lot of great tools, but won't play in Montréal because he's behind both Reinbacher and Mailloux in our depth chart

For us, it's 5,5M that we take out of our cap hit, and can invest elsewhere

I'd do that in a heartbeat.

Flames aren't tanking. There's zero chance of them competing with the top 3-5 teams that are actively trying to suck.

They're just taking their foot off the gas. Just have good asset management, if you miss you playoffs for a year or two, whatever.

Of course they are not tanking, they are going to suck. if Anderrson is traded, than Weegar is the only decent Dman the Flames have.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

It would depend on the return for me. We should only be taking back bad C or D contracts. We have a massive glut of wingers right now. Vlasic makes some sense as a name to take back for me. What kind of compensation do you see the Sharks offering?

Which wingers would be made available for something like this in your mind? I think the compensation could look pretty different depending on who is potentially coming back the other way. I'm sure the Sharks would prefer to move Vlasic for a winger.

 

[Double Dion]

Which wingers would be made available for something like this in your mind? I think the compensation could look pretty different depending on who is potentially coming back the other way. I'm sure the Sharks would prefer to move Vlasic for a winger.

I think Kuzmenko and Mangiapane are gone for sure at the TDL. Mangiapane is an excellent defensive winger. Top 10 in the league. He goes through long offensive droughts though. He scored 35 goals one year and got paid for it. He's really a 15-20 goal scorer IMO who can do that with D zone starts against 1st liners.

Kuzmenko is just the opposite. He's all offense and no defense. He's the worst defensive forward I've seen in Calgary since the James Neal debacle. He took a horrific PP and made it decent though. Deceptive release, quick hands.

I don't think either guy is worth much until the TDL.

Then there's Sharangovich. I think management would like to keep him. He's a good 2nd line winger I'd say on a good team. He's 1st line for us. Good pker, but was disappointing defensively for us this year at 5 on 5. Much worse than he was in NJ. That said, he's fast, rocket of a shot and much better offensive instincts for us this season than I saw in NJ.

I'd imagine it would be 2 of those 3 or potentially all 3 if Sharangovich doesn't want to sign with us.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I think Kuzmenko and Mangiapane are gone for sure at the TDL. Mangiapane is an excellent defensive winger. Top 10 in the league. He goes through long offensive droughts though. He scored 35 goals one year and got paid for it. He's really a 15-20 goal scorer IMO who can do that with D zone starts against 1st liners.

Kuzmenko is just the opposite. He's all offense and no defense. He's the worst defensive forward I've seen in Calgary since the James Neal debacle. He took a horrific PP and made it decent though. Deceptive release, quick hands.

I don't think either guy is worth much until the TDL.

Then there's Sharangovich. I think management would like to keep him. He's a good 2nd line winger I'd say on a good team. He's 1st line for us. Good pker, but was disappointing defensively for us this year at 5 on 5. Much worse than he was in NJ. That said, he's fast, rocket of a shot and much better offensive instincts for us this season than I saw in NJ.

I'd imagine it would be 2 of those 3 or potentially all 3 if Sharangovich doesn't want to sign with us.

With all of them being one year to expiration of their deals, I don't see how Calgary wouldn't still ask for a 1st round pick level asset to take Vlasic back as part of it which is probably too rich for us given our status as worst team in the league. lol

 

[Double Dion]

With all of them being one year to expiration of their deals, I don't see how Calgary wouldn't still ask for a 1st round pick level asset to take Vlasic back as part of it which is probably too rich for us given our status as worst team in the league. lol

Yeah, I don't really see the Sharks spending assets to dump Vlasic. They should be accumulating assets for another year I think. Grier did well on the Hertl trade. I think Vegas is going to regret that one big time. I think he should try to dump that Couture deal in the short center market right now too. We should be doing the same with Kadri.

 

[Nanuuk]

How about Josh Anderson?

Sure. Josh and a, oh I don't know, say a 2025 1st for future considerations.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Yeah, I don't really see the Sharks spending assets to dump Vlasic. They should be accumulating assets for another year I think. Grier did well on the Hertl trade. I think Vegas is going to regret that one big time. I think he should try to dump that Couture deal in the short center market right now too. We should be doing the same with Kadri.

Couture's health will likely prevent him from being moved. He only played six games this season and the injury flared up again after missing the first half of the season that made him miss the rest of the season. He's not even scheduled to skate until July. Since he still has three years, I think he needs to show that he can play again before he goes on the trade market. The trade deadline is the very earliest I think he could actually go on it if he stays healthy and plays. More realistically, they'll likely need to wait until next offseason when they'll have another retention slot open up after Burns' retention expires.

 

[HighLifeMan]

With all of them being one year to expiration of their deals, I don't see how Calgary wouldn't still ask for a 1st round pick level asset to take Vlasic back as part of it which is probably too rich for us given our status as worst team in the league. lol

Ya - for the Sharks specifically it's the last move they should be entertaining.

Based purely on value however - the price to dump 12.5M in salary, and two years' of a 7M caphit is in the ball park of two later 1st round picks. I'd say the 14th overall and a 3rd would be the ask.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Ya - for the Sharks specifically it's the last move they should be entertaining.

Based purely on value however - the price to dump 12.5M in salary, and two years' of a 7M caphit is in the ball park of two later 1st round picks. I'd say the 14th overall and a 3rd would be the ask.

The ask about the Calgary wingers was meant to try and mitigate that price which is understandable to ask for. I would consider taking Huberdeau off Calgary's hands if Vlasic could go the other way as part of it but that's a much larger and tougher deal to figure out.

 

[Bounces R Way]

Not sure about that. The 3 way trade I am trying probably doesn't work but I do think that if there was a trade, the Habs can trade the pick back. The conditions disappear.

You feel like that has bee explained so you believe it?

They can get around that, been mentioned several times on here

Yeah, that is not true. They can trade it back to the Flames and the conditions would unwind. They conditionally own the Flames pick. The Flames are the team that can't trade their 24 1st until the conditions are cleared and Montreal gets Florida's pick.
They could also trade it to another team with a mess of conditions that would involve some more conditions on top of the existing ones.

The Habs can't trade the Flames 2025 1st specifically, and neither can the Flames. They can trade a 2025 1st and have it be conditional as the pick they end up receiving from the Monahan trade but putting the Calgary Flames 2025 1st in proposals without including conditions doesn't work. That pick hasn't been transferred yet and in fact is more likely not going to be transferred.

 

[Double Dion]

The ask about the Calgary wingers was meant to try and mitigate that price which is understandable to ask for. I would consider taking Huberdeau off Calgary's hands if Vlasic could go the other way as part of it but that's a much larger and tougher deal to figure out.

I'd do that in a heartbeat. The Huberdeau contract is what's going to kill our ability to rebuild properly. Would you consider something like Huberdeau, 28thOA and Pelletier for Vlasic? I'd do that and send you flowers.

 

[ponder719]

I could see the Flyers trying to move Cam Atkinson at a reduced rate, to clear some cap space. If Philly retained ~32% of Atkinson's deal ($1.875M), bringing him down to $4M, what would Calgary expect from Philly to retain 50% of what's left? You'd be using a retention slot and $2M for one year, then the obligation goes away. I'm thinking there are two ways to structure this, where Philly pays Calgary more, but keeps what they get from Team C for Atkinson, or where Philly pays a lesser amount and Calgary gets what Team C pays as well.

 

[Mackiaveli]

How about Calgary's 2025 1st, Montréal 2024 3rd, Justin Barron and Josh Anderson, for Future Considerations?

Respectfully - HUH?

Anderson has 3 years left at ~6% of the cap (which will continue to shrink) - Habs are not competing this year, and if they need the money to chase a big UFA next year they can pay (less) to offload him then when his value will hopefully have rebounded a bit.

If not, they can buy him out then for significantly less (2 less years, too) OR they can retain 25-50% and move him for something of value (even a late pick).

I would put it at a 0% chance that the Habs pay money to offload Anderson's contract at this point. I could see them trying to buyout Anderson + trade Gallagher next summer if they want to throw a massive contract at someone (Draisaitl?) but beyond that they will likely let them play out until their final year, retain 50%, and trade them for some value.

Absolutely >zero< reason for the Habs to pay a team more than mid round picks to take a bad contract

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I'd do that in a heartbeat. The Huberdeau contract is what's going to kill our ability to rebuild properly. Would you consider something like Huberdeau, 28thOA and Pelletier for Vlasic? I'd do that and send you flowers.

I'd want Calgary to retain a portion of that contract though since he's still got 7 years and will in all likelihood decline dramatically at some point through that when he's already 31 and he can't really be bought out until just before his final year.

 

[Double Dion]

I'd want Calgary to retain a portion of that contract though since he's still got 7 years and will in all likelihood decline dramatically at some point through that when he's already 31 and he can't really be bought out until just before his final year.

That's where the problem is I think. Tough to tie up a slot for 7 years and the cap and give up the futures.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

That's where the problem is I think. Tough to tie up a slot for 7 years and the cap and give up the futures.

Yeah, moving Huberdeau is a big mountain to climb when it comes to making a trade. Probably more difficult than the Erik Karlsson deal.

 

[Double Dion]

Yeah, moving Huberdeau is a big mountain to climb when it comes to making a trade. Probably more difficult than the Erik Karlsson deal.

Yup, I think it's pretty close to untradable without retaining 50%, maybe not even then. Then you just have to spend that money on a 2nd line wing anyway. The best thing to do is probably to just ride it out until you need the space, then pay the assets. Right now we don't need the space. If I could get out of it for a 2 year bad deal, a 1st and a prospect it would make sense. But if we're burning a retention slot it doesn't.

EDIT: I'm hoping there's some sort of chance we could add something to Huberdeau for Gaudreau. Johnny has to be regretting how that decision has worked out for him and Columbus has to be too. Our best neutral zone driver is Backlund right now and we have no PP entry guy. Johnny would undoubtably be a better fit for us.

 

[Neutrinos]

We'd like to on some of them. Some like Zary we'd rather keep. Some of them we're stuck with, like Huberdeau. Others it might make more sense to wait till the deadline like Mangi or Kuzmenko.

It rarely makes more sense to wait on pending UFAs that your team isn't likely to re-sign...

Take the picks/prospects, and turn the page now on those guys while they have value vs getting nothing if they're injured or slump during the 1st half of the season

 

[DJJones]

I don't want Gaudreau back. At least Huberdeau tries hard. Gaudreau looks like he gave up.

There was a month stretch in January/February where Huberdeau looked unreal. Our defense falling apart at the deadline killed our momentum but the flashes are becoming more common.

I still think he can be a productive player. I refuse to believe that a guy that had elite passing for like a decade just completely lost that ability. Staple him to Zary, rotate the third guy until they find chemistry. And then tell the defense to push it up and follow it up. Playing it safe and going for a control style completely ruins Huberdeau.

 

[DJJones]

It rarely makes more sense to wait on pending UFAs that your team isn't likely to re-sign...

Take the picks/prospects, and turn the page now on those guys while they have value vs getting nothing if they're injured or slump during the 1st half of the season

The cap makes it more advantageous to hold onto those guys until the TDL. A playoff team can build up some cap and the 50% retention is a lot more valuable than if they had them all year.

I can't imagine anyone wants Mangi this summer. But mangi at 2.9M at the TDL for a team that needs a winger becomes a lot more valuable.

 

[Bouboumaster]

Sure. Josh and a, oh I don't know, say a 2025 1st for future considerations.

Lol, I've offered much more than that previously in this thread lol

A simple 2025 1st? I'd do that right the f*** now

I'd let you chose whichever you want: Calgary's 2025 1st or Montréal's


I've offered previously 2025 Calagary's 1st, Montréal 2024 3rd and Justin Barron

 

[Double Dion]

Lol, I've offered much more than that previously in this thread lol

A simple 2025 1st? I'd do that right the f*** now

I'd let you chose whichever you want: Calgary's 2025 1st or Montréal's


I've offered previously 2025 Calagary's 1st, Montréal 2024 3rd and Justin Barron

I agree with you. Just saying that you guys probably have Florida's 2026 1st round pick, not our 2025 first round pick. If you're offering your 1st instead of either the 2026 FLA pick or the 2025 CGY pick I'm definitely taking the MTL one.