Babcock fired by the Leafs discussion

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The Hyman/Babcock thing was always one of the more idiotic takes on this board.

Keefe is playing Hyman in the same role and as much TOI/g as well.

Against Colorado Hyman played 20:40 (3rd most) without PP icetime with Matthews at 20:43 and JT at 22:31

Auston got 3 secs more icetime and Nylander got 17:50 including over 2 minutes on the PP.

For consistency purposes we should now see those fans that criticized Babcock over Hyman usage to be tearing Keefe a new one for the same reason. :wg:
 
He was a good coach, probably overrated due to inheriting a powerhouse Wings team, but he was an improvement.

Even Scotty changed teams, so they don't stay on the same team forever.

Yes, he had flaws and I'm happy he's moved on.

Did he exceed anyone's expectations, considering who joined the team after he was hired?

To be fair, it is not exactly difficult to be an improvement over Randy Carlyle and Ron Wilson, neither of which are NHL Head Coaches anymore due to their general ineffectiveness.
 
Keefe is playing Hyman in the same role and as much TOI/g as well.

Against Colorado Hyman played 20:40 (3rd most) without PP icetime with Matthews at 20:43 and JT at 22:31

Auston got 3 secs more icetime and Nylander got 17:50 including over 2 minutes on the PP.

For consistency purposes we should now see those fans that criticized Babcock over Hyman usage to be tearing Keefe a new one for the same reason. :wg:

There is always a best time to utilize a defensive forward, usually isn't when trailing late in a game.

We'll see when the Leafs are trailing what happens.

I don't think there is a problem using Hyman, the problem is when you don't use Tavares, Matthews and other offensive players when you need offense.

Gretz and Kurri often had non 1st. liners on their wing.
 
If he takes a gig with another team, does he still get full salary from the Leafs?

I wouldn't be surprised if Babcock just goes into retirement.
He's still under contract to the Leafs so a deal would need to be worked out for him to take another job.

They should have just transitioned him to East Coast Scout and let him ride out his days kissing Cod.
 

Why are you acting like you weren't ever a fan of Babcock?


Case in point:
Luckily for the anti-babbers, the leafs dug themselves a massive hole in october by winning only one of their first 10 gms, so they'll have ammo for their cause for a while yet as the leafs try to dig themselves out of that hole. This will let them ignore that the team is obviously playing a better brand of hockey for a good while yet.

obtuse? what?

this entire thread is about babcock's impact. if this entire year is too small a sample for anything, how can anyone post anything in this thread?

I dunno what the discussion is, really.

anyone with 2 eyes can see the team is playing a much better brand of hockey. it's not surprising that the team is geting better results, both in the standings, and in the statistics. even better is that all the numbers point to sustainability and expected better results going forward.

Babcock is awesome, no doubt.

But never, ever forget just how awful Randy was.

Babcock is an excellent coach. But there are many excellent coaches. Strategy wise there is nothing special, and yes many if not most teams employ these same strategies just as effectively.

the one edge that babcock has on many of them, which is especially important in Toronto, is that he is a natural leader that commands respect. his players trust him and listen to him. horachek used largely the same systems, but nobody listenee or believed in him. and unlike some, he doesn't need to use fear as a motivator. he is strong but supportive and fair.

but strategy wise, Babcock is no mad genius. just one of many smart coaches. he might have a better natural in game feel for matchups and hot hands than many, but that's probably not a huge deal.

No, the biggest factor here is that Randy Carlyle was an absolute disaster of a coach. He made the players on this team look worse than they ever had under anyone else, and he fact that they are now looking like competent even good NHLers now under a normal system is making Babcock look like a magician.
 
Why are you acting like you weren't ever a fan of Babcock?


Case in point:

Thank you for quoting my posts emphasizing that the real improvement was due to randy being terrawful, and that babs was not too good in the tactics department, to demonstrate my consistency.
 
For sure. May even have a job in the next few weeks. He's not an awful coach, and could likely bring stability to number of floundering teams right now. He might even learn something from his mistakes here and improve as a coach. It's not like he's a dummy. He just fell victim to his own ego and decided to get more and more stubborn instead of ever adapting- something that happens all too often in this market. This market makes coaches crazy, and brings out the worst in the egotistical ones.

But thank the lord he's gone. Its unforgivable that he took the most talented roster in the league and forced them to play the ugliest brand of dump and chase hockey imaginable, while giving grunts prime minutes instead of elite talent.

I almost cried the other nite when I saw Leafs not dump the puck, but rather reverse and reorganize, keeping possession.
 
Thank you for quoting my posts emphasizing that the real improvement was due to randy being terrawful, and that babs was not too good in the tactics department, to demonstrate my consistency.

You do know, you called Babcock an excellent coach that is a natural leader that commands respect... that his players trust and listen to him... right? You do know that you were calling out anti-"babbers" which inferred that you were pro Babcock, right?

What changed?? ;)
 
You do know, you called Babcock an excellent coach that is a natural leader that commands respect... that his players trust and listen to him... right? You do know that you were calling out anti-"babbers" which inferred that you were pro Babcock, right?

What changed?? ;)

Feel free to read my post up the thread.
 
You do know, you called Babcock an excellent coach that is a natural leader that commands respect... that his players trust and listen to him... right? You do know that you were calling out anti-"babbers" which inferred that you were pro Babcock, right?

What changed?? ;)

You know you're allowed to change your opinion based on new information, right?

Things have changed a lot since Babcock was hired and since he was fired.

It's okay to admit a wrong opinion at the time with all this wonderful information we have... We do not have to keep the same opinions we had from the past.
 
There is always a best time to utilize a defensive forward, usually isn't when trailing late in a game.

We'll see when the Leafs are trailing what happens.

I don't think there is a problem using Hyman, the problem is when you don't use Tavares, Matthews and other offensive players when you need offense.

Gretz and Kurri often had non 1st. liners on their wing.

Hyman leads the NHL in winning puck battles and creating Ozone turnovers and one of the best things for scoring goals by Matthews and JT would be to have someone get the puck.. Its really hard to score goals when the opposition has the puck. ;)

I think Keefe is going use Hyman to bring games home when Leafs have the lead and closing out games and as his main PKer also.

Coaches love players like Hyman due to his effort level and 2-way play that allow you to play him throughout the line-up.

The first roster moves that Keefe made was to move Mikheyev and Hyman to JT wing while demoting the icetime of players like Kapanen and Johnsson.
 
You know you're allowed to change your opinion based on new information, right?

Things have changed.............. a lot since Babcock was hired and since he was fired.

You missed the rationale as to digging into Zeke's history.

People are more than allowed to change opinions over time, but it was odd that Zeke couldn't even acknowledge that people were excited with Babcock when he was hired... It was kind of an odd response, considering Zeke was as big a fan of Babcock as most were on these boards when Babcock got hired...

Anyways, I'm done with that topic... ;)
 
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You know you're allowed to change your opinion based on new information, right?

Things have changed a lot since Babcock was hired and since he was fired.

It's okay to admit a wrong opinion at the time with all this wonderful information we have... We do not have to keep the same opinions we had from the past.
There are many here who have a tough time admitting they were wrong about anything....strange phenomena.
 
Yup.

With another high salary, Babs could be one of the highest paid people in the NHL........

This isn't true. The NHL is a replacement salary league. If he gets hired at 3mil/yr in lets say Seattle, the Leaf's have to pay him the difference, meaning we'd pay him 2/per year until his contract was up.

Babcock will make 5 million (unless hes offered more I guess) for the next 4 years regardless if he coahces or not.
 
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I think Babcock's next destination is fully in the hands of MLSE as they still have him under contract for the next 3 and 1/2 years, while he sits on his couch making nearly $6 mil a season.

So any team that is in direct conflict with Leafs, might be blocked.

That means Babcock taking over a team in the West is much higher than one in the East.

A betting man would put their money on Seattle as the odds on favourite here.. With Seattle an expansion team going to want the instant presence and experience and hope Babs can do for them what he did for the Leafs and dig them out from the bottom of the league like the Leafs team he inherited and then delivered the playoffs consistently.

He would become the face of the franchise and could use his same catch phrase "There will be pain". ;)
 
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You missed the rationale as to digging into Zeke's history.

People are more than allowed to change opinions over time, but it was odd that Zeke couldn't even acknowledge that people were excited with Babcock when he was hired... It was kind of an odd response, considering Zeke was as big a fan of Babcock as most were on these boards when Babcock got hired...

Anyways, I'm done with that topic... ;)


I think you can see even from those quotes that I was very excited about randy being fired, at least.
 
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I think Babcock's next destination is fully in the hands of MLSE as they still have him under contract for the next 3 and 1/2 years, while he sits on his couch making nearly $6 mil a season.

So any team that is in direct conflict with Leafs, might be blocked.

That means Babcock taking over a team in the West is much higher than one in the East.

A betting man would put their money on Seattle as the odds on favourite here.. With Seattle an expansion team doing to want the instant presence and experience and hope Babs can do for them what he did for the Leafs and dig them out from the bottom of the league like the Leafs team he inherited and then delivered the playoffs consistently.

Mlse won't get in the way of babs going anywhere he wants.
 
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For sure. May even have a job in the next few weeks. He's not an awful coach, and could likely bring stability to number of floundering teams right now. He might even learn something from his mistakes here and improve as a coach. It's not like he's a dummy. He just fell victim to his own ego and decided to get more and more stubborn instead of ever adapting- something that happens all too often in this market. This market makes coaches crazy, and brings out the worst in the egotistical ones.

But thank the lord he's gone. Its unforgivable that he took the most talented roster in the league and forced them to play the ugliest brand of dump and chase hockey imaginable, while giving grunts prime minutes instead of elite talent.

Still think he did this on purpose to spite management. Once Dubas took over, he decided he didnt want to work for him. So every chance he got, whether it was comments on acquired players or just the style of play he coached, he stuck it to them.
 
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Still think he did this on purpose to spite management. Once Dubas took over, he decided he didnt want to work for him. So every chance he got, whether it was comments on acquired players or just the style of play he coached, he stuck it to them.

Sure seems that way.

His response to the muzzin trade was bizarre, given that muzz is exactly what he should have wanted.

And I've never seen a coach come and basically say his roster just isn't good enough, right as they're headed to the playoffs. Even weirder given that 90% of the coaches in the league would die for a roster that goes.
 

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