Confirmed with Link: [AZ/OTT] Jakob Chychrun in exchange for a conditional first in ’23, a conditional second in ’24, & a 2nd in ‘26

[hbk]

I'd argue the two late firsts were implied as Chychrun was saying the whole time he wanted to go to a contender (contenders pick later in the round). And also usually contenders have less cap space I thought it meant they'd be willing to pay more (ie higher package) because harder to fit in a truly top tier defenseman. But, Boston went with a 31 year old Orlov at a slightly greater cap hit, you'd have to think they would've preferred Chychrun but didn't want to pay the acquisition cost (which is understandable from their side, that team hardly has top-tier prospects).

Anyway to me Bill Armstrong clearly got his ask due to the position of the first -- put another way if we had gotten Boston's 2023 first, 2024 first, and a 2024 second from BOS everyone would've said Bill got his ask, what we actually got from OTT is higher value than that. So to me it's pretty clear that Bill got what he's been asking for this whole time.

Which is not to say this return will for sure equal Chych's value, I wouldn't have traded Chych I don't think. That is a different discussion though.

Anyway Chych is injured again, let's see who we draft and how that person's career ends up going. Then we can talk about this trade once Chych signs somewhere else as a UFA in a few years (assumes Ottawa doesn't reach contender status by then, we'll see what happens)

The problem we have is that we have to think about whether the return makes sense relative to the ask instead of just having a return that at face value was a no brainer. If you have to explain it then it makes it less fun. In the end i do think this could be a magnificent return (depending on if Mitchkov can fall that far or we get another name on my list that i love).

 

[PainForShane]

The problem we have is that we have to think about whether the return makes sense relative to the ask instead of just having a return that at face value was a no brainer. If you have to explain it then it makes it less fun. In the end i do think this could be a magnificent return (depending on if Mitchkov can fall that far or we get another name on my list that i love).

Ha, that's true. But like... pretty clear math / logic idk.

Still somewhat in disbelief OTT didn't trade a 3rd or 4th for a backup goalie (Forsberg was out long term before the deadline), their loss is (hopefully) our gain. Funny the Chychrun return depends so much on Dorion NOT acquiring a backup goalie that is so random

 

[Jamieh]

Ha, that's true. But like... pretty clear math / logic idk.

Still somewhat in disbelief OTT didn't trade a 3rd or 4th for a backup goalie (Forsberg was out long term before the deadline), their loss is (hopefully) our gain. Funny the Chychrun return depends so much on Dorion NOT acquiring a backup goalie that is so random

I don't think you can empty cupboard for possible playoff spot

Ottawa Senators Draftpicks, Contracts, Salary Cap, Cap Hit, Ottawa Senators Contracts | Puckpedia

puckpedia.com

 

[PainForShane]

I don't think you can empty cupboard for possible playoff spot

Ottawa Senators Draftpicks, Contracts, Salary Cap, Cap Hit, Ottawa Senators Contracts | Puckpedia

puckpedia.com

It'd be at most 3rd or 4th rounder, the year is probably irrelevant. Probably even less -- for instance Quick just cost a 7th (in 2025) and a random non-NHL contract -- Husso (who is arguably an average starter) went for a 3rd during last year's draft.

Anyway no sane person would consider losing any of the above assets (in isolation) "emptying the cupboard." Especially since like you mentioned they've already traded away many of draft picks (ie emptied the cupboard) with the intent of improving their team. What's an extra 3rd or 4th rounder in 2025 who cares.

Would've been better than having to go down to their 5th or 6th string goalie in a year in they previously told their fanbase they were making a playoff push that's for certain.

Weird that you're continuing to argue this even after their 3rd and 4th string goalies have shit the bed (prior to this you were arguing those goalies were actually good despite well below average AHL stats which was also extremely weird)

 

[Jamieh]

It'd be at most 3rd or 4th rounder, the year is probably irrelevant. Probably even less -- for instance Quick just cost a 7th (in 2025) and a random non-NHL contract -- Husso (who is arguably an average starter) went for a 3rd during last year's draft.

Anyway no sane person would consider losing any of the above assets (in isolation) "emptying the cupboard." Especially since like you mentioned they've already traded away many of draft picks (ie emptied the cupboard) with the intent of improving their team. What's an extra 3rd or 4th rounder in 2025 who cares.

Would've been better than having to go down to their 5th or 6th string goalie in a year in they previously told their fanbase they were making a playoff push that's for certain.

Weird that you're continuing to argue this even after their 3rd and 4th string goalies have shit the bed (prior to this you were arguing those goalies were actually good despite well below average AHL stats which was also extremely weird)

It's just not as simple as grab a goalie for a 3rd or 4th. The Sens are right where they had hoped to be this year, playing meaningful games in March. They entered trade deadline with a starter and 2 young guys they wanted a look at. They are not contending for anything this year. They have little draft assets left. Look at it however you want this would not have been a smart move to burn assets to bring in a backup at best goalie to take a swing at just making playoffs. No one thought Quick could help anyone, including his own team. And AHL stats aren't everything when evaluating goalie, take a look at Coyote's for an example. I think they made right play and still have their 3rd or 4th to use or trade at better time.

 

[PainForShane]

It's just not as simple as grab a goalie for a 3rd or 4th. The Sens are right where they had hoped to be this year, playing meaningful games in March. They entered trade deadline with a starter and 2 young guys they wanted a look at. They are not contending for anything this year. They have little draft assets left. Look at it however you want this would not have been a smart move to burn assets to bring in a backup at best goalie to take a swing at just making playoffs. No one thought Quick could help anyone, including his own team. And AHL stats aren't everything when evaluating goalie, take a look at Coyote's for an example. I think they made right play and still have their 3rd or 4th to use or trade at better time.

Nah. They hoped to be making the playoffs this year (according to Dorion) to me that means at the very least they were looking to play meaningful games in April, not March. March isn't a very high bar.

Anyway they easily could've / should've been there, right now their games aren't meaningful because they've lost a few in a row (goalies couldn't make a save) and now they're so far out and also having to trust in their 5th or 6th string goalie depending how you look at him, at the time of the trade deadline no one in the org would've chosen to be in the situation right now. All this could've / should've been avoided by trading a 3rd or 4th (or less) for a backup goalie, and yes it really would have been that simple.

And also re: Quick -- Vegas thought Quick could help them that's why they traded for him, that's not "no one". They made the trade because one of their goalies was injured (sound familiar?), looks like it's working out decently well. Also pretty sure they won't be missing that 7th rounder the 2025 draft comes around what do you think

 

[Jamieh]

Nah. They hoped to be making the playoffs this year (according to Dorion) to me that means at the very least they were looking to play meaningful games in April, not March. March isn't a very high bar.

Anyway they easily could've / should've been there, right now their games aren't meaningful because they've lost a few in a row (goalies couldn't make a save) and now they're so far out and also having to trust in their 5th or 6th string goalie depending how you look at him, at the time of the trade deadline no one in the org would've chosen to be in the situation right now. All this could've / should've been avoided by trading a 3rd or 4th (or less) for a backup goalie, and yes it really would have been that simple.

And also re: Quick -- Vegas thought Quick could help them that's why they traded for him, that's not "no one". They made the trade because one of their goalies was injured (sound familiar?), looks like it's working out decently well. Also pretty sure they won't be missing that 7th rounder the 2025 draft comes around what do you think

Dorion prioritizing Senators' growth: Playoffs would be 'a bonus'

www.google.com

The Ottawa Senators have fallen short of the hype following an offseason that saw them bring in goaltender Cam Talbot, two-time 41-goal-scorer Alex DeBrincat, and veteran Claude Giroux, but general manager Pierre Dorion says his team is "pretty much" where he expected it to be.

"We're playing meaningful games," Dorion said, according to NHL.com's Dan Rosen. "The best thing for our team is the growth of our young core this year and that's what's happening with all these young players. ... They're growing through this run of trying to get into the playoffs."

He added, "You've never heard me say make the playoffs from the get-go because I knew where we were and I knew where we needed to be. I think if we do make the playoffs it's a bonus, but the growth of this team was the most important thing this year."

 

[PainForShane]

Dorion prioritizing Senators' growth: Playoffs would be 'a bonus'

www.google.com

The Ottawa Senators have fallen short of the hype following an offseason that saw them bring in goaltender Cam Talbot, two-time 41-goal-scorer Alex DeBrincat, and veteran Claude Giroux, but general manager Pierre Dorion says his team is "pretty much" where he expected it to be.

"We're playing meaningful games," Dorion said, according to NHL.com's Dan Rosen. "The best thing for our team is the growth of our young core this year and that's what's happening with all these young players. ... They're growing through this run of trying to get into the playoffs."

He added, "You've never heard me say make the playoffs from the get-go because I knew where we were and I knew where we needed to be. I think if we do make the playoffs it's a bonus, but the growth of this team was the most important thing this year."

?????

"I think if we do make the playoffs it's a bonus." That to me says Dorion was hoping, not expecting, to be in the playoffs. There is a difference.

Anyway the article was from 10 days ago, according to the article they were 8 points out of a playoff spot (NYI) with 3 games in hand. Anyone would say those are meaningful games. Right now they are 7 points out of the playoffs with no games in hand (9 games remaining) and also three teams to jump. These are not meaningful games, esp if you're dressing your 5th or 6th goaltender who's some random guy / never really been expected to be any good at the NHL level (he was originally drafted 194th overall and has already bounced around a few teams).

It'd sure be nice if Ottawa were still playing meaningful games at this stage in the season don't you think? According to the article you quoted, can easily infer that Dorion thinks so too

 

[Jamieh]

?????

"I think if we do make the playoffs it's a bonus." That to me says Dorion was hoping, not expecting, to be in the playoffs. There is a difference.

Anyway the article was from 10 days ago, according to the article they were 8 points out of a playoff spot (NYI) with 3 games in hand. Anyone would say those are meaningful games. Right now they are 7 points out of the playoffs with no games in hand (9 games remaining) and also three teams to jump. These are not meaningful games, esp if you're dressing your 5th or 6th goaltender who's some random guy / never really been expected to be any good at the NHL level (he was originally drafted 194th overall and has already bounced around a few teams).

It'd sure be nice if Ottawa were still playing meaningful games at this stage in the season don't you think? According to the article you quoted, can easily infer that Dorion thinks so too

The rest of that quote for the 2nd time:

He added, "You've never heard me say make the playoffs from the get-go because I knew where we were and I knew where we needed to be. I think if we do make the playoffs it's a bonus, but the growth of this team was the most important thing thing this year"



They are playing meaningful games and gave been for weeks. You are the only one who doesn't see that.

 

[PainForShane]

The rest of that quote for the 2nd time:

He added, "You've never heard me say make the playoffs from the get-go because I knew where we were and I knew where we needed to be. I think if we do make the playoffs it's a bonus, but the growth of this team was the most important thing thing this year"



They are playing meaningful games and gave been for weeks. You are the only one who doesn't see that.

I'm not even sure what to say to this. "I think if we do make the playoffs it's a bonus." Meaning it would've been a bonus to make the playoffs (ie something to hope for). Clearly not what Dorion expected, but a bonus that he likely hoped for, in order to help the growth of his team which was his main focus this year (that's what the rest of the article / many of his other interviews talk about).

And also, speaking of the Q of whether Ottawa is playing meaningful games why not go over to the Sens board and lurk for a minute (ie less time than it takes to post) before you continue with even more nonsense. Here's the thread:

Meaningful March

I think Buffalo is the team we are going to have to jump and they might have a worse schedule than us ahead of them. Yup. Said it was Buffalo that we need to catch two weeks ago. I think it's us and them for the 8th spot. And Geez I'd like to play Boston.

forums.hfboards.com

If you need me to interpret these posts also, looks like the vast majority of Sens fans agree that they're "all but mathematically done," "it's pretty much over", "pretty much time to turn the page," "meaningful games ended a while ago" etc (all actual quotes) you can verify yourself but shouldn't need to as this is all common sense. Anyway I'm far from the only one who thinks their meaningful games are over, next time read some thoughts from actual Sens fans, they know their team better than either of us do.

But back to your point... even if Sens were playing meaningful games, seems undeniable the games would be even more meaningful if they had an actual NHL backup goalie with a history of making saves at this level, no? Seems like you're arguing in circles for some reason, up to you I guess

 

[Jamieh]

I'm not even sure what to say to this. "I think if we do make the playoffs it's a bonus." Meaning it would've been a bonus to make the playoffs (ie something to hope for). Clearly not what Dorion expected, but a bonus that he likely hoped for, in order to help the growth of his team which was his main focus this year (that's what the rest of the article talks about).

And also, speaking of the Q of whether Ottawa is playing meaningful games why not go over to the Sens board and lurk for a minute (ie less time than it takes to post) before you continue with even more nonsense. Here's the thread:

Meaningful March

I think Buffalo is the team we are going to have to jump and they might have a worse schedule than us ahead of them. Yup. Said it was Buffalo that we need to catch two weeks ago. I think it's us and them for the 8th spot. And Geez I'd like to play Boston.

forums.hfboards.com

If you need me to interpret these posts also, looks like the vast majority of Sens fans agree that they're "all but mathematically done," "it's pretty much over", "pretty much time to turn the page," "meaningful games ended a while ago" etc (all actual quotes) you can verify yourself but you shouldn't need to as it's common sense. Anyway I'm far from the only one who thinks their meaningful games are over, next time read some thoughts from actual Sens fans, they know their team better than either of us do.

But back to your point... even if Sens were playing meaningful games, seems undeniable the games would be even more meaningful if they had an actual NHL backup goalie with a history of making saves at this level, no? Seems like you're arguing in circles for some reason, up to you I guess

I now see where the issue is. You don't know what hope means in this context? When you wrote Dorian was hoping to male tge playoffs abd Dorian said " You've never heard me say make the playoffs from the get-go because I knew where we were and I knew where we needed to be. I think if we do make the playoffs it's a bonus, but the growth of this team was the most important thing this year."

Dorian was not saying in any way that he was hoping to make the playoffs, he was hoping the team grew, as in not being out by January but still playing games that matter down the stretch. You know like they have been doing. And reading a fan board as proof, yeah that's a no thanks from me.

 

[PainForShane]

I now see where the issue is. You don't know what hope means in this context? When you wrote Dorian was hoping to male tge playoffs abd Dorian said " You've never heard me say make the playoffs from the get-go because I knew where we were and I knew where we needed to be. I think if we do make the playoffs it's a bonus, but the growth of this team was the most important thing this year."

Dorian was not saying in any way that he was hoping to make the playoffs, he was hoping the team grew, as in not being out by January but still playing games that matter down the stretch. You know like they have been doing. And reading a fan board as proof, yeah that's a no thanks from me.

Umm... no. Very few ppl think OTT is playing meaningful games right now, especially amongst OTT fans (see link to thread above). But, in an alternate universe they might be playing meaningful games if Dorion had accounted for their already existing goalie injury (Forsberg) and traded for NHL backup (kinda like what Vegas did). That backup goalie might've won some games and then OTT would actually be playing meaningful games down the stretch in reality not just in your mind which for some reason doesn't factor in the viewpoints of actual Sens fans. These meaningful games down the stretch would've helped the growth of the team (ie what Dorion's said his main goal for the the season was), so maybe something worth pursuing.

Lmk if you have any trouble with the logic. None of this has anything to do with wordsmithing the definition of hope which for some reason you've been banging on about for multiple posts

 

[Jamieh]

Umm... no. Very few ppl think OTT is playing meaningful games right now, especially amongst OTT fans (see link to thread above). But, in an alternate universe they might be playing meaningful games if Dorion had accounted for their already existing goalie injury (Forsberg) and traded for NHL backup (kinda like what Vegas did). That backup goalie might've won some games and then OTT would actually be playing meaningful games down the stretch in reality not just in your mind which for some reason doesn't factor in the viewpoints of actual Sens fans. These meaningful games down the stretch would've helped the growth of the team (ie what Dorion's said his main goal for the the season was), so maybe something worth pursuing.

Lmk if you have any trouble with the logic. None of this has anything to do with wordsmithing the definition of hope which for some reason you've been banging on about for multiple posts

Game Day Five: Senators at Devils, Mar. 25 | Ottawa Senators

The Senators make a quick road trip to the Garden State to wrap up their season series against the New Jersey Devils.

www.nhl.com

"Back in September GM Pierre Dorion said that the goal of this season was to play meaningful games in March. Well here we are with ten games to go and the Senators sit just five points back of a playoff spot. With that this team is not content with just having met their preseason goal, now they want to exceed it and play past April 13th!"

Hope:
want something to happen or be the case.
"he's hoping for an offer of compensation"



In this case Hope is meaningful games in March, not playoffs. Playoffs are above Hope and a bonus

 

[PainForShane]

Game Day Five: Senators at Devils, Mar. 25 | Ottawa Senators

The Senators make a quick road trip to the Garden State to wrap up their season series against the New Jersey Devils.

www.nhl.com

"Back in September GM Pierre Dorion said that the goal of this season was to play meaningful games in March. Well here we are with ten games to go and the Senators sit just five points back of a playoff spot. With that this team is not content with just having met their preseason goal, now they want to exceed it and play past April 13th!"

Hope:
want something to happen or be the case.
"he's hoping for an offer of compensation"



In this case Hope is meaningful games in March, not playoffs. Playoffs are above Hope and a bonus

Bro, you are making less sense than a main board troll.

According to you (and google): Hope means "(to) want something to happen or be the case"

Ottawa (and Dorion) obviously wanted to make the playoffs this year in their ideal world. As if this weren't obvious enough, that random quote you included mentioned this too (I bolded the relevant part). Anyway by the definition above (ie the one you included) Ottawa therefore hoped to make the playoffs.

Lmk if you have any problems following the logic of your own argument.

Or actually maybe don't. No one cares

 

[Jamieh]

Dorian: Our goal is to play meaningful games in March and if we make playoffs that's a bonus.

Ottawa plays meaningful games in March but looks like they will not make playoffs

PainForShane: Dorian is disappointed because he hoped Ottawa would make playoffs??

Yeah I'm the one who doesnt understand???

 

[PainForShane]

Dorian: Our goal is to play meaningful games in March and if we make playoffs that's a bonus.

Ottawa plays meaningful games in March but looks like they will not make playoffs

PainForShane: Dorian is disappointed because he hoped Ottawa would make playoffs??

Yeah I'm the one who doesnt understand???

When did I ever say Dorion was disappointed and what does him being disappointed (or not) have to do with anything

 

[Mosby]

What I've always said was put yourself in the other GM's seat. Imagine being the buyer and paying that steep price for a 24 year old who has been under the knife three times already? Or was it four? No way I'd ever pay that.
Where I disagree is regarding the return BA got. An 11-13 first pick is a huge return in a stacked '23 draft for the problem/distraction we had since the trade talks began. It's better than two Boston 1sts. Plus there's a couple of 2nds in the trade.
Ottawa fleeced us after they acquired him on that playoff bound hot streak, right? Now they sit all but finished and Chychrun has a season ending injury.

A shoulder, wrist, and three knees I believe. Someone should photoshop him on to the Operation board game.

 

[cobra427]

I'd argue the two late firsts were implied as Chychrun was saying the whole time he wanted to go to a contender (contenders pick later in the round). And also usually contenders have less cap space I thought it meant they'd be willing to pay more (ie higher package) because harder to fit in a truly top tier defenseman. But, Boston went with a 31 year old Orlov at a slightly greater cap hit, you'd have to think they would've preferred Chychrun but didn't want to pay the acquisition cost (which is understandable from their side, that team hardly has top-tier prospects).

Anyway to me Bill Armstrong clearly got his ask due to the position of the first -- put another way if we had gotten Boston's 2023 first, 2024 first, and a 2024 second from BOS everyone would've said Bill got his ask, what we actually got from OTT is higher value than that. So to me it's pretty clear that Bill got what he's been asking for this whole time.

Which is not to say this return will for sure equal Chych's value, I wouldn't have traded Chych I don't think. That is a different discussion though.

Anyway Chych is injured again, let's see who we draft and how that person's career ends up going. Then we can talk about this trade once Chych signs somewhere else as a UFA in a few years (assumes Ottawa doesn't reach contender status by then, we'll see what happens)

2 firsts from a team with a shot in the playoffs this year would mean top 16 teams, so picks 17-32. There was plenty of talk on this board about a Detroit (7th pick) or Buffalo (12th pick) wanting chych. Why would Boston give up a lot, they are on a record pace this season, so thinking 2 picks at 32 isn't really what I think BA was talking about. Jets and penguins were rumored, those would be 2 picks in the late teens.

This draft is deep enough that you might get a very good pick in the late teens this year and with our world renowned (according to BA) scouting, another good pick in the same area next year. One pick in the 10-15 range and 2 seconds just wasn't what BA wanted but after 18 months he had to take it. I don't think any team, regardless of position was ever giving up 2 firsts for Chych.

I think in the end that it was a fair trade and we got market value, hope it works for us and Chcyh too. We have a ton of picks now, some are bound to work out well.

 

[PainForShane]

2 firsts from a team with a shot in the playoffs this year would mean top 16 teams, so picks 17-32. There was plenty of talk on this board about a Detroit (7th pick) or Buffalo (12th pick) wanting chych. Why would Boston give up a lot, they are on a record pace this season, so thinking 2 picks at 32 isn't really what I think BA was talking about. Jets and penguins were rumored, those would be 2 picks in the late teens.

This draft is deep enough that you might get a very good pick in the late teens this year and with our world renowned (according to BA) scouting, another good pick in the same area next year. One pick in the 10-15 range and 2 seconds just wasn't what BA wanted but after 18 months he had to take it. I don't think any team, regardless of position was ever giving up 2 firsts for Chych.

I think in the end that it was a fair trade and we got market value, hope it works for us and Chcyh too. We have a ton of picks now, some are bound to work out well.

Yeah, I don't know but there's really no way to know. Personally thought Chych would likely go to Pittsburgh or Washington (WSH traded for Sandin instead), both those teams are likely picking 17-20. So, doing the math is 10-15 (deep draft) + 2 2nds greater than 2 20-24s (one in deep draft, one not) and one second? Personally I think so, but depends where the 10-15 and the 17-20 fall, also might not be possible to trade up during draft day anyway depending on who's available and various teams' needs. Anyway you can clearly argue either way.

Regardless, 100% agree that BA clearly got market value because... well, he played the market and got the value the market gave him. Am more than fine with the return also but I think I value the placement of the 1st higher than you do.

That said not sure any of this really matters until draft day and depends on who falls where. For instance if a top prospect falls a few spots and we're able to get him with the OTT pick, that's likely a win... but obvi if that top prospect doesn't pan out then obviously not.

After thinking about it, I also think when Chych hits UFA I wouldn't be surprised if he takes less money to sign with a legit contender... if so I think >50% chance Ottawa will not re-sign with OTT, probably depends on their goalies. Lots of ifs, but in the long term if the prospect hits (big if) then I think Yotes win the trade, esp if Chychrun is gone in 3 years.

Anyway, agree that hopefully the trade works out for both teams, those are the best kind. Let's see what happens over the next ten years ha

 

[Dead Coyote]

The 11-13 pick is likely to not be as good as Chych, and if they are it will be 3-4 years out. The seconds are likely to not have any impact as NHL players.

Spoken like someone who's never watched any of the prospects in this draft.

 

[hbk]

The favorites to land Chychrun were LA and Edmonton in the West. Edm sits today at 21 and LA at 26? There was a lot of noise on Edmonton not being "sold" on Chychrun so their decision to grab Ekblad didn't catch me offguard. LA was the one that leading up to the Sens deal that appeared to be the front runner. It's also the only other reported offer where we have some details on what was part of their offer (or several of the pieces).

 

[PainForShane]

The favorites to land Chychrun were LA and Edmonton in the West. Edm sits today at 21 and LA at 26? There was a lot of noise on Edmonton not being "sold" on Chychrun so their decision to grab Ekblad didn't catch me offguard. LA was the one that leading up to the Sens deal that appeared to be the front runner. It's also the only other reported offer where we have some details on what was part of their offer (or several of the pieces).

Good points. I think Bill also implied from interviews STL was in until the very end as well. Reason I think this is he always talked about "we could've had 2 late firsts" and this year the only team with 2 late firsts is STL (from NYR and TOR). Currently according to tankathon those STL firsts are 26/27 (LA's would've been 25, they traded to CBJ for Korpi), I think the STL picks were worse last time I checked but not sure.

But yeah, what you said above was what was reported, my Washington / Pitt idea wasn't based at all on any sort of reality, just how I saw potential team needs / Chychrun fit in my own head. Should've been more clear about that in my post above, I don't think anyone else would've considered WSH/PIT frontrunners for Chych at any time

 

[Schemp]

I really wanted Shane Pinto. Wouldn't surprise me if we trade 1 of our goalies for Pinto during the off-season, after the Sens know about Norris's status, if he is 100%, and new ownership.

 

[Vinny Boombatz]

I really wanted Shane Pinto. Wouldn't surprise me if we trade 1 of our goalies for Pinto during the off-season, after the Sens know about Norris's status, if he is 100%, and new ownership.

One of our goalies isn't worth Pinto...not close actually.

 

[hbk]

I really wanted Shane Pinto. Wouldn't surprise me if we trade 1 of our goalies for Pinto during the off-season, after the Sens know about Norris's status, if he is 100%, and new ownership.

they wouldn't make Pinto available for Chychrun why would they do so now?