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heyfolks said:
ASP - I am missing what others are seeing. I want to be wrong, but after this tourney, I don't see his game translating to the NHL level. I can't see him pinned in his own zone playing D. I can't see him skating his way through the neutral zone and I can't see him dominating on the PP from the point.

I thought the critique of him by the NHL Network commentator was spot on.

I will get flamed for this one, but I would package him before the luster comes off this prospect.
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With all due respect, I think you messed up what you wanted to say.
 
I've found ASP to be pretty darn good this tournament. His defensive game is never going to be standout, but he rarely gets beaten and almost never gets scored on. He moves the puck very well, which has been the area of his game on display this tournament since he's QBing from the half wall. Very elusive, with excellent hands and vision. The shot hasn't been as big of a factor due to not playing the point, but he still has a bunch of goals, and opponents having to respect the one-timer frees up a lot of space for his forwards. As the tournament has gone on, ASP has scored less, but those forwards have scored a lot more.

Yeah, he's got to continue getting stronger and faster, and his defensive game will probably always need refinement, but he's made a lot of progress in those areas. And they won't be as glaring next to Edvinsson, who I think is basically the perfect defense partner for him.
 
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The thing with ASP is, I see him actually thriving even more with legit NHL talent surrounding him. All he's had to play alongside are SHL players and Swedish U20 players that aren't nearly as close to reaching their potential as he is (this is no slight to players like Eklund, who I really like)

He's a quick thinker and plays just as quick and does so extremely well in tight space under duress. To which other skilled NHL talent we have could actually bring out the best in him sooner rather than not

Part of the reason why I, and many others here believe he's going right to the NHL is because he's on his 3rd year of pro hockey and at this point needs much better talent surrounding him to maximize his growth. He's got a PP2 QB role waiting for him too so he can play to his strengths right away
 
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heyfolks said:
ASP - I am missing what others are seeing. I want to be wrong, but after this tourney, I don't see his game translating to the NHL level. I can't see him pinned in his own zone playing D. I can't see him skating his way through the neutral zone and I can't see him dominating on the PP from the point.

I thought the critique of him by the NHL Network commentator was spot on.

I will get flamed for this one, but I would package him before the luster comes off this prospect.
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An old part of me agrees but after seeing him now and with his quick thinking and passing, he'll be absolutely fine at moving the puck without having to skate it through the neutral zone. He's a gamer and super poised with the puck. It's a special quality to have and he has it. His defensive game is something I never liked before but he seemed more engaged and physically imposing and was fine as a result. I don't agree with the hughes, makar, etc comparisons at all but he'll be very good.
 
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He's not just realgud as I think Ogee said elsewhere, he's realsmart. Instinctively and analytically. He is constantly making good decisions with the puck and is a great passer.. He has the big shot but if it's not there he'll put a quick hard wrist shot on net or to a teammate's stick. He doesn't over-extend himself in transition or try risky zone entries himself, he's moving the puck early and then figuring out how best to integrate into the possession. Instinctively he shows up in places you don't expect and the puck finds him.

There is some reason for doubt about ASP, but not a lot. He's not an elite skater over distance, doesn't float over the ice like a Karlsson or Coffey, as light on his feet as Hughes, nothing like Makar. But he's agile and elusive and on NA ice that's more important than on Euro ice. His defense is better than many give him credit for though he's obviously going to have some tough moments due to stature and stick length. He battles though and that counts for a lot. The IQ and agility of Fox mixed with the toughness and shot of Zidlicky could be a helluva player.
 
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14ari13 said:
With all due respect, I think you messed up what you wanted to say.
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My grammar is likely awful, but that is what I meant to say.

Pavels Dog said:
It’s okay, not everyone knows puck.
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Michael Brand Eggs said:
What critique?
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I'll try and find it this evening but it was Mike Johnson. He was saying ASP doesn't possess great speed, elite skating and his defensive skills are in question as the NHL is trending toward bigger d'men.
 
Eye of Ra said:
I think he is already nhl ready. Dude is a monster. He is similar to Kronwall but without the open ice hits.
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I certainly hope ASP is better offensively than Kronwall was.

I really liked Kronwall, he was a very good all-around defenseman, who unfortunately was slotted in over his head as a 1D due to circumstances. Watching him on the PP in those days was tough. He could not put a pass on someone's tape or in their wheelhouse to save his life.
 
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Lol predicting ceilings or floors is just about as accurate as predicting timelines and prospects pro development. Just a bunch of noise and yapping. And to the person going to the public forum offering ASP for regressed assets like Cozens need to stop. If you don't know about the prospect then just keep those hypotheticals to NHL 25.
 
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heyfolks said:
I'll try and find it this evening but it was Mike Johnson. He was saying ASP doesn't possess great speed, elite skating and his defensive skills are in question as the NHL is trending toward bigger d'men.
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Not surprising, since MJ is a former Leaf and current honk for all things Toronto (a team with a current average height of 6'3.25" on defense).

Because when I think of building a roster through defense, I think of the Leafs.

I agree that ASP still has things to work on. But Mike Johnson is hardly an expert and unbiased source to trust.
 
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Oddly enough, I think he will be better defensively than some are expecting, but won't be as offensively impactful as some are suggesting. I think the brain and decision making with the puck will go a long, long way. I agree that he isn't super fast and explosive, but I am not sure he really needs to be given the processing. That said, we only have room for one of these type of defensemen on the roster.
 
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Rzombo4 prez said:
Oddly enough, I think he will be better defensively than some are expecting, but won't be as offensively impactful as some are suggesting. I think the brain and decision making with the puck will go a long, long way. I agree that he isn't super fast and explosive, but I am not sure he really needs to be given the processing. That said, we only have room for one of these type of defensemen on the roster.
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If all goes right I can see ASP being a 15-20 goal, 40+ assist defenseman. His poise and ability to read what’s happening on the ice are what separate him from guys like Boqvist and Lundqvist in my opinion.

I think we’ll see more explosive skating as he gets a little older and stronger, just as we have with Raymond. And that will really push him into the upper tier of offensive defensemen in the NHL.

That said, I agree that we can really only have one of these smallish offensive defensemen on the roster at a time. That seems to be the new meta in the NHL.
 
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DavidpauseReinbacher said:
Got people all over this board wanking for Werenski. But some want to move ASP for someone else's mess? Illogical. We need offensive players coming thru and he seems like a player who has that part his game in abundance.
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To other's point, I think he will benefit from playing in the NHL with other skilled players. It was too easy for opposing teams to take away his shot on the PP during this tournament. That will be less of an issue moving up in leagues. Yes, teams can prioritize him if necessary, but that will open lanes for other players that can finish
 
When does he get to Detroit? Start of next yr? Mid-Season? Start of the next yr?

In any case, we should sign a solid RHD to a 1-2yr deal at 3rd pair money this summer.

Chiarot---Seider
Edvinsson---*FA* (then ASP)
Johansson---Holl/Gustafsson (then *FA*)
 
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14ari13 said:
I believe you meant you can see him pinned in his own end, while you wrote you cant see him pinned,
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Ahhh, I get it. As I said, terrible grammar.

"I can't see him pinned in his own zone playing D."


I meant to say I can't see him handling playing defense against NHL level talent while pinned in his own zone, nor handling the forecheck.
 
heyfolks said:
Ahhh, I get it. As I said, terrible grammar.

"I can't see him pinned in his own zone playing D."


I meant to say I can't see him handling playing defense against NHL level talent while pinned in his own zone, nor handling the forecheck.
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ASP is about the same size as Hronek and plays about as physical.

Also look at Hughes, Hutson, Morrissey, Hutson, Fox, Makar. That is 5 of the top 10 dmen in scoring. All 6’0” and under.

Then Pionk, Ghost and Karlsson. 3 of the guys 11 to 20.

Then guys like Forsling, Dunn, Montour, Krug, Durzi, Weegar, and so many more.

Being a 5’11” or 6’0” defender isn’t a kiss of death like it was 10 years ago. They don’t have nearly the number of 6’3” 240lbs monsters on wing to run them through the glass in the league anymore.

Don’t expect Lidstrom-esque defense. Accept that he’s going to bring excitement to offense and moments where you want to cover your eyes on defense. The trade off in his game looks like it’s worth it.
 
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ElProfessor said:
When does he get to Detroit? Start of next yr? Mid-Season? Start of the next yr?

In any case, we should sign a solid RHD to a 1-2yr deal at 3rd pair money this summer.

Chiarot---Seider
Edvinsson---*FA* (then ASP)
Johansson---Holl/Gustafsson (then *FA*)
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Looking at the top non-Ekblad RHD FA's next yr... and their averages over the last two seasons (thank you, Grok)

Brent Burns, 39, 6-5, 230.
22:27 toi. 0 games missed.
0.71 ppg. +22.5/season. 1.97 hits/game. Current Contract: 5.3M.
Projected Next: 3.5M, 2-3yrs.

Neal Pionk, 29, 6-0, 186.
22:49 toi. 0 games missed.
0.48 ppg. +8.5/season. 1.68 hits/game.
Current: 6M.
Next: 5.5M, 5yrs.

Cody Ceci, 31, 6-3, 210.
18:17 toi. 0 games missed.
0.24 ppg. +5.5/season. 1.28 hits/game.
Current: 3.3M.
Next: 3M, 3yrs.

David Savard, 34, 6-1, 238.
19:32 toi. 5.5 games missed/season.
0.23 ppg. -5.5/season. 1.93 hits/game.
Current: 2.3M.
Next: 3.5M, 3yrs.

*****

Burns at 2yrs 3.5M would be a dream.

Pionk is probably out of range, salary and term.

Ceci and Savard are kind of meh / maybe we could trade for someone instead.
 
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