Speculation: AVS Proposals/Rumors/Free Agents & Related Topics 2016-17 Part XVII

[Foppberg]

The thing that irks me the most about MacKinnon are his decisions with the puck. The production is going to happen, he's way, way too talented for it not to happen. I just hate his decision making but I don't think that's something which will improve. We saw it last night vs Washington. A game where he is playing so well and so hard but continues to make poor decision after poor decision with the puck. It's maddening.

I think MacKinnons habits are coachable, just we haven't had a legitimate NHL coach since he's come here.

 

[tucker3434]

If he made good decisions with the puck consistently, he is probably in a tier just slightly below McDavid. Don't see it ever happening either, but hopefully with guys like Jost, Rantanen, and maybe the 1st round pick this season, we see more high IQ players surrounding MacKinnon. Might be a little less maddening watching MacKinnon if that were the case.

Nevertheless, on a year where Duchene's negative +/- matches his point totals, Landeskog playing at not even a 40 point pace, and the rest of the roster being made up of trash, ~55 points isn't too bad. (Andrighetto and Rantanen have certainly helped and aren't lumped in with the trash).

It's much more impressive than 63 his rookie year, but I'd certainly feel a lot better about it if it came the following year, not 3 years later.

I hope we can get him a good coach soon. I'd love to see what these guys could do if they ever got on the same page.

 

[AvsCOL]

I think MacKinnons habits are coachable, just we haven't had a legitimate NHL coach since he's come here.

Agreed. Needs some good coaching and he'll be fine. Shows flases of brilliance from time to time, like last night.

 

[Former Ladder]

I thought this guy was ours!

 

[dahrougem2]

I thought this guy was ours!

He sounds like he could be Kent Brockman's co-host

 

[tigervixxxen]

The guy has to have extensive shoulder surgery too. Geez.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

I'm not the highest on Will Butcher, but if he wins the Hobey Baker I hope he's signed just so that we don't have to hear more Avs jokes.

 

[Avs71]

I thought this was kind of interesting, since the start of the year the Avs have moved out (or given up on in Colborne's case):

Player|Height|Weight
Cody McLeod|6'2|210
Andreas Martinsen|6'3|220
Jarome Iginla|6'1|210
Joe Colborne|6'5|221
Average|6'2.75|215 lbs

and replaced them with:

Player|Height|Weight
Sven Andrighetto|5'10|188
Tyson Jost|5'11|191
Matt Nieto|5'11|190
JT Compher|6'0|193
Average|5'11|190.5

Dropped almost 4 inches, 25 lbs, and got a lot quicker/more skilled. It'll be interesting to see what Sakic does in the summer.

 

[AnimalMother73]

Shows likely philosophical split that led to Roy's departure. He wanted the Kings model, big and physical over speed and up tempo. Think Sakic's vision is the right one even if results don't show it yet.

 

[henchman21]

Ghetto probably would be here with or without Roy (the org always gets their guys... eventually). Compher was too. So not entirely accurate. Roy did like more size than where the Avs are going though. Only time will tell if this works, but the NHL tends to be a copycat league where the last team or two that wins the Cup suddenly has the formula and the rest of the league tries to emulate.

 

[Avs71]

Ghetto probably would be here with or without Roy (the org always gets their guys... eventually). Compher was too. So not entirely accurate. Roy did like more size than where the Avs are going though. Only time will tell if this works, but the NHL tends to be a copycat league where the last team or two that wins the Cup suddenly has the formula and the rest of the league tries to emulate.

Jost would be here too, but the point still stands. The Avs are getting smaller and faster. All those players are likely to be on the team next season. I don't/didn't want to get into the Roy/Sakic who has the large player fetish, but I'm glad to see Sakic has no problem chasing speed over weight.

 

[SoundwaveIsCharisma]

Ghetto probably would be here with or without Roy (the org always gets their guys... eventually). Compher was too. So not entirely accurate. Roy did like more size than where the Avs are going though. Only time will tell if this works, but the NHL tends to be a copycat league where the last team or two that wins the Cup suddenly has the formula and the rest of the league tries to emulate.

The Avs greatest strength in the 2013-14 season was their speed and tenacity. They weren't a great possession team, but boy could they strike quickly if you made a mistake. For some reason, Roy and Sakic took a look at that team, looked at the pros and cons of that team, and decided they should build in the complete opposite direction.

I'm hoping they are going back to building off the strengths, because this Frankenstein's monster version of the team sucks.

 

[SoundwaveIsCharisma]

Jost would be here too, but the point still stands. The Avs are getting smaller and faster. All those players are likely to be on the team next season. I don't/didn't want to get into the Roy/Sakic who has the large player fetish, but I'm glad to see Sakic has no problem chasing speed over weight.

Wasn't Roy quite upset that they drafted Jost?

 

[The Pwnerer]

Not sure if there were reports but it seemed like he favored Logan Brown over Jost and that was a consensus we thought here on the boards.

 

[JLo217]

I like the faster approach. They're semi entertaining to watch some nights. I like the way Ghetto plays the game too. If the Avs can get Patrick, thats some added size too. I'm assuming Soderberg will stay around still, he's looked a bit faster lately too, so hopefully he rebounds.

I just look at teams like Chicago, usually they have less hits than their opponent and look where they still are standings wise every year. If the Avs can keep some decent size on the backend and make it at least a bit tougher in the d zone by losing some old dudes like Beauch and Tyutin, and bring in some young fast moving feet I think they'll be okay. EJ, Zadorov, Barrie, Barbario, and Lindholm all can move their feet pretty well. Include Mirinov and maybe Bigras, plus whomever Duchene gets traded for and I think the team will be better all around. They'll have gaffe's but should be decent.

I like watching the Canes of late. The D is quick and has lots of up ice tempo and hustles to get back. They can be spotty in their own end at times, but man can they move it up.

 

[henchman21]

Jost would be here too, but the point still stands. The Avs are getting smaller and faster. All those players are likely to be on the team next season. I don't/didn't want to get into the Roy/Sakic who has the large player fetish, but I'm glad to see Sakic has no problem chasing speed over weight.

Roy wasn't happy with the Jost selection.

The Avs greatest strength in the 2013-14 season was their speed and tenacity. They weren't a great possession team, but boy could they strike quickly if you made a mistake. For some reason, Roy and Sakic took a look at that team, looked at the pros and cons of that team, and decided they should build in the complete opposite direction.

I'm hoping they are going back to building off the strengths, because this Frankenstein's monster version of the team sucks.

I wouldn't say that was the 13-14's greatest strength... I'd say they had a custom tailored (fairly exotic by NHL standards) system that fit the team perfectly. Combine that with great efficiency and skill, they had a good setup. Mistakes from there were made and they tried to adapt to a more standard NHL scheme when the poison pill was found by the Wild.

This monster was created by taking a bunch of half measures. Likely by finding compromise between the parties. Pursuing a singular vision should help this organization, but the clock is ticking and it remains to be seen if smaller/faster is really the way to build. I know people will jump on that and point out Pittsburgh... before Pittsburgh it was LA. I'm not a big fan of pigeon holeing things into one or the other... find your core and build to their strengths. If that core is about playing big, physical, hard nosed hockey... build the club around that. If it is all about skill, speed and talent... build around that (though I'd still argue size is needed in certain positions). Just don't half measure things either way.

To me a bigger determination on a team speed level is their passing ability. The better passing team will almost always play faster regardless of their actual foot speed.

 

[RockLobster]

Roy wasn't happy with the Jost selection.

Now, was it more him just not liking Jost as a player, or was he preferring someone else at #10 (in your opinion)?

I think there's a difference between not being happy because you truly felt that there was a better player available, and not being happy because you dislike the player (for the record, I had been believing that he wasn't happy with the pick because he believed a better player was still available--like Chychrun).

 

[SoundwaveIsCharisma]

Roy wasn't happy with the Jost selection.



I wouldn't say that was the 13-14's greatest strength... I'd say they had a custom tailored (fairly exotic by NHL standards) system that fit the team perfectly. Combine that with great efficiency and skill, they had a good setup. Mistakes from there were made and they tried to adapt to a more standard NHL scheme when the poison pill was found by the Wild.

This monster was created by taking a bunch of half measures. Likely by finding compromise between the parties. Pursuing a singular vision should help this organization, but the clock is ticking and it remains to be seen if smaller/faster is really the way to build. I know people will jump on that and point out Pittsburgh... before Pittsburgh it was LA. I'm not a big fan of pigeon holeing things into one or the other... find your core and build to their strengths. If that core is about playing big, physical, hard nosed hockey... build the club around that. If it is all about skill, speed and talent... build around that (though I'd still argue size is needed in certain positions). Just don't half measure things either way.

To me a bigger determination on a team speed level is their passing ability. The better passing team will almost always play faster regardless of their actual foot speed.

I agree that the Avs were a very unique team that year. I also agree that the most good teams build around the core players (which the Avs have done a terrible job of). I would say the half measures are both as a compromise between Roy and Sakic, as well as them having a terrible scouting department and finding budget solutions. It's like spending a bunch of money to buy a nice piece of land to build your own house, but then cheaping out on the labour and supplies so you've got a really crappy house on a nice piece of land.

 

[tigervixxxen]

Not sure if there were reports but it seemed like he favored Logan Brown over Jost and that was a consensus we thought here on the boards.

The was just fanwanking about Brown. Roy wanted D.

Which was funny after the first year I remember his speech about how you don't need to take D early, there's so many good ones that come out of the second round blah blah. And then he changed his tune quickly after that. I still wonder if that was part of an elaborate sell job on Bigras, the whole he almost made the team at 18 was puffed up too, I think Roy was the one who was ever really in his corner.

 

[UncleRisto]

Oh, so it'd been Chychrun?

 

[henchman21]

Now, was it more him just not liking Jost as a player, or was he preferring someone else at #10 (in your opinion)?

I think there's a difference between not being happy because you truly felt that there was a better player available, and not being happy because you dislike the player (for the record, I had been believing that he wasn't happy with the pick because he believed a better player was still available--like Chychrun).

Someone else at 10. Jost didn't fit exactly what Roy wanted, but nobody can deny that he is a good prospect. Nearly a year later, I'd say there is really only 1 or 2 players that you could say are 'better' prospects and that could be more of a positional basis or size.

I agree that the Avs were a very unique team that year. I also agree that the most good teams build around the core players (which the Avs have done a terrible job of). I would say the half measures are both as a compromise between Roy and Sakic, as well as them having a terrible scouting department and finding budget solutions. It's like spending a bunch of money to buy a nice piece of land to build your own house, but then cheaping out on the labour and supplies so you've got a really crappy house on a nice piece of land.

Agreed.

 

[tigervixxxen]

I agree that the Avs were a very unique team that year. I also agree that the most good teams build around the core players (which the Avs have done a terrible job of). I would say the half measures are both as a compromise between Roy and Sakic, as well as them having a terrible scouting department and finding budget solutions. It's like spending a bunch of money to buy a nice piece of land to build your own house, but then cheaping out on the labour and supplies so you've got a really crappy house on a nice piece of land.

There was also the half commitment to building and competing.

 

[S E P H]

Oh, so it'd been Chychrun?

I'm pretty sure the reports/rumours after the draft say that Roy wanted Max Jones from French sources. He does fit into the team that Roy wanted to build.

 

[Former Ladder]

I'm pretty sure the reports/rumours after the draft say that Roy wanted Max Jones from French sources. He does fit into the team that Roy wanted to build.

That would have been bad. I cannot say I know much about how he is doing now but I know there are many better prospects ahead of him, especially at #10.

 

[henchman21]

Jones was somebody the Avs liked a lot, but the rumors that I've heard don't point to him being the guy (or even the top 5 for that pick). It is pointless to really go through this now though. Jost is an Av and the others aren't. I'm pretty excited to see what he can do tonight!