Player Discussion Auston Matthews Discussion

[Antropovsky]

We are talking about Matthews not Eric Lindros

Matthews can and from time to time does throw his body around. But doesn't do it consistently enough

The idea that Marner is slowing down Matthews makes no sense. Matthews almost scored 70 goals this year primarily because of Marner

He also scored 60 goals having Marner on his wing

Matthews has his own sets of problems and criticism..

Matthews sucking in playoffs has to do more with Maythews

Matthews best years came playing with Marner.

Hate to be the one to tell you this but:
5vs5:
Marner @ 11 mill with Matthews:
Assists per/60 : 1.17
G/60: 1.58

Domi @ 3 mill with Matthews
Assists per/60: 1.74
G/60: 3.19

Truth be told, Matthews better without Marner on his line. He scored at a significantly higher rate without Marner. If any argument was to be made based on the stats...it's that Marner actually decreased his goal output.

 

[fahad203]

Hate to be the one to tell you this but:

Marner @ 11 mill with Matthews:
Assists per/60 : 1.17
G/60: 1.58

Domi @ 3 mill with Matthews
Assists per/60: 1.74
G/60: 3.19

I want Domi to do well

Domi sample is just too small . What he did in 20 games Marner has done it 7 years consistently

The idea that people here think Domi all of sudden at Marners level is just insane

I get it. Domi is the new darling around the block and Marner is the villan

Domi is a good player. A good supplement player. He can fill the gap for a while, but not a long term solution

 

[Gabriel426]

What has to be said is this:

If we had McDavid and not Matthews, I think Marner would be alot more effective in the post season.

McDavid drives play. McDavid is a setup machine. McDavid opens up ICE for teammates. McDavid is an elite passer. McDavid controls the play. Matthews doesnt.

The combo of
MM - can't shoot, non-contact hockey, elite passer that REQUIRES time and space not available in the playoffs.

AM - below average passer for his AAV, cannot zone entry, cannot carry the puck through the neutral zone, amazing shooter that requires time and space not available in the playoffs.

as you can imagine, AM + MM is a combo that just doesnt work because you just cover AM and prevent a shot from him and you have 24 AAV doing nothing.

The thing with AM and MM is that they want to play with each other bc it makes their jobs easier and for the past few years, the MGT, fans and medias just love them together bc it is a great story as long as they produce.

For 11mil player, I expect them to be able to carry other players on different lines instead of each other.
I am in no way dissing Hyman but McD made him into a 50 goals scorer, just like he made Kane looked great and Kassian before that.
Both AM and MM had not done that with any other players.
Willie actually done it with Kerfoot.

I want Domi to do well

Domi sample is just too small . What he did in 20 games Marner has done it 7 years consistently

The idea that people here think Domi all of sudden at Marners level is just insane

I get it. Domi is the new darling around the block and Marner is the villan

Domi is a good player. A good supplement player. He can fill the gap for a while, but not a long term solution

The thing is I think the Leafs need more supplement players like Bert and Domi than top end talents like MM, Willie and JT.

 

[mapleleaf979]

Berube needs to hold Matthews accountable. Matthews should have been benched multiple times in the past. His compete level is embarassing at times, Berube needs to call him out and bench him. This will be an ongoing thing and fair of Berube to call him out. If Matthews responds, he could get 75 goals.

 

[Stephen]

Berube needs to hold Matthews accountable. Matthews should have been benched multiple times in the past. His compete level is embarassing at times, Berube needs to call him out and bench him. This will be an ongoing thing and fair of Berube to call him out. If Matthews responds, he could get 75 goals.

For a superstar with claims on being a Top 2-3 player in the sport Matthews definitely has a low floor game when things aren’t going and or he isn’t feeling it for whatever reason.

There’s simply too much variance between when the switch is completely off vs when the big scoring surges happen on auto pilot vs when he’s dialled in and playing the “elite drive train game.” Berube hopefully will bring up the standard and Matthews will hit a new level. Doesn’t have to be pure goals, pure points…

 

[57 Years No Cup]

For a superstar with claims on being a Top 2-3 player in the sport Matthews definitely has a low floor game when things aren’t going and or he isn’t feeling it for whatever reason.

There’s simply too much variance between when the switch is completely off vs when the big scoring surges happen on auto pilot vs when he’s dialled in and playing the “elite drive train game.” Berube hopefully will bring up the standard and Matthews will hit a new level. Doesn’t have to be pure goals, pure points…

I suspect we'll soon see what AM is really made of.

 

[Stephen]

I suspect we'll soon see what AM is really made of.

If at the end of the day he’s unable to take his game to that Mackinnon, Draisaitl level just give us a more reliable night to night effort with the shift to shift impact we know he’s capable of. His game needs to be at that foundational player level and not lean so heavy to just pure switch flipping goal scoring.

 

[Antropovsky]

I want Domi to do well

Domi sample is just too small . What he did in 20 games Marner has done it 7 years consistently

The idea that people here think Domi all of sudden at Marners level is just insane

I get it. Domi is the new darling around the block and Marner is the villan

Domi is a good player. A good supplement player. He can fill the gap for a while, but not a long term solution

How many years in his career has Domi played top line minutes with 27 year old, two time hart finalist, Tavares?

How many years has Domi played with a prime Auston Matthews?

In those 7 years your talking about with Marner... he's played all seasons with Hart level centers in their primes. He ping pongs between the two. If one of the Leafs best centers is injured, he goes to the next best one and Nylander gets whats left. Fortubately for him, now that Tavares is slowing down hes played primarily with Matthews. Both those centers have a history of boosting their linemates stats, no matter who they are.

Who has Marner boosted? Nobody. No player has suddenly exponentially produced more while playing with Marner.

Matthews without Marner in 2019 vs Matthews with Marner 2022:

2022 playing primarily with Marner, 5vs5 Matthews produced:

74 games 26 goals and 26 assists.

2019, while playing primarily with Kapanen, Johnsson and Marleau, 5vs5 Matthews produced:

68 games 23 goals and 24 assists
Pace 74 games 25 goals 26 assists

This was just Matthews 3rd NHL season. One would expect that he would be producing more last season vs just his 3rd season. ESPECIALLY if he's playing with an 11 million winger rather than three bums who were bubble NHL players after 2019 with Matthews.

Question is... why are we paying 11 million to a winger when we've found on numerous occasions that Matthews produces the same, IF NOT MORE!, with fringe NHL players on his line?

 

[Antropovsky]

Kind of interesting looking at Marners shot location in 2022 vs 2023.

Pretty conclusive that Marner is making is way further from the net and more towards the easy open areas.

2022: 72 games,
- 67 shots in the area directly in front of the goalie.
- 5 shots in the goalie crease
-18 shots from the perimeter faceoff dot area nearest boards
- 29 shots from the blueline area
- 88 shots from slot area between goalie and blueline

2023: 80 games,
- 48 shots directly in front of the goalie
- 2 in the goalie crease
- 26 shots from the perimeter faceoff dot area nearest boards
-34 shots from the blueline area
- 68 shots from slot area between goalie and blueline

8 less games in 2022, but significant more shots in more difficult areas of the ice.

 

[IPS]

Bertuzzi-Matthews-Domi was a breath of fresh air compared to Marner-Matthews. When one decides to check out, they both check out. They get in spells where they play such emotionless, no intensity garbage hockey where they're not making anything happen anywhere.

With Bertuzzi and Domi on Matthews' wings, it seems like they know how to bring out and keep the intensity from him.

Marner-Matthews can be fun, don't get me wrong, but it's really seeming like this fanbase is kind over that duo.

 

[rumman]

Berube needs to hold Matthews accountable. Matthews should have been benched multiple times in the past. His compete level is embarassing at times, Berube needs to call him out and bench him. This will be an ongoing thing and fair of Berube to call him out. If Matthews responds, he could get 75 goals.

It will be interesting how Berube responds to the indifference 34, 16, 88, 44 display on a regular basis, be more interesting how the players respond to Berube’s response, it’s going to be a interesting upcoming season that’s for damn sure…….

For a superstar with claims on being a Top 2-3 player in the sport Matthews definitely has a low floor game when things aren’t going and or he isn’t feeling it for whatever reason.

There’s simply too much variance between when the switch is completely off vs when the big scoring surges happen on auto pilot vs when he’s dialled in and playing the “elite drive train game.” Berube hopefully will bring up the standard and Matthews will hit a new level. Doesn’t have to be pure goals, pure points…

The guy’s either getting hat tricks or mailing it in, this should have been addressed years ago……

 

[Confucius]

How many years in his career has Domi played top line minutes with 27 year old, two time hart finalist, Tavares?

How many years has Domi played with a prime Auston Matthews?

In those 7 years your talking about with Marner... he's played all seasons with Hart level centers in their primes. He ping pongs between the two. If one of the Leafs best centers is injured, he goes to the next best one and Nylander gets whats left. Fortubately for him, now that Tavares is slowing down hes played primarily with Matthews. Both those centers have a history of boosting their linemates stats, no matter who they are.

Who has Marner boosted? Nobody. No player has suddenly exponentially produced more while playing with Marner.

Matthews without Marner in 2019 vs Matthews with Marner 2022:

2022 playing primarily with Marner, 5vs5 Matthews produced:

74 games 26 goals and 26 assists.

2019, while playing primarily with Kapanen, Johnsson and Marleau, 5vs5 Matthews produced:

68 games 23 goals and 24 assists
Pace 74 games 25 goals 26 assists

This was just Matthews 3rd NHL season. One would expect that he would be producing more last season vs just his 3rd season. ESPECIALLY if he's playing with an 11 million winger rather than three bums who were bubble NHL players after 2019 with Matthews.

Question is... why are we paying 11 million to a winger when we've found on numerous occasions that Matthews produces the same, IF NOT MORE!, with fringe NHL players on his line?

Jt’s 1st season here 47 goals a career high he played with Marner. Then like almost 100% of the time when a new player joins the team, everyone wonders why he isn’t as good as he was before. It’s coaching man.

Almost all of you love Tkachuk. Sure he plays for the Panthers the last 2 years, how’d he do with the Flames? Players need the right coach and the coach makes all the difference.

 

[Antropovsky]

Jt’s 1st season here 47 goals a career high he played with Marner. Then like almost 100% of the time when a new player joins the team, everyone wonders why he isn’t as good as he was before. It’s coaching man.

Almost all of you love Tkachuk. Sure he plays for the Panthers the last 2 years, how’d he do with the Flames? Players need the right coach and the coach makes all the difference.

Flames? Last season on that team he had a 104 point season +57 and 4 goals, 6 assists and 10 points in 12 games while the team went to the 2nd round.

He went to Florida, had more support, led the team in points by 30 and went to the finals.

Defensive superstar, Marner has yet to break +23, has not yet broken 100 points, while primarily playing with a top 3 NHL center. I'd argue that Tavares in 2019 was close to a top 3 center too.

This is not even talking about the best part of Tkatchuks game and the one that he has more of in his baby toe than Marner in his whole body. Fearless play, heart, physical play, determination and grit... pick any of them...oh and leadership.

Marner may be a great captain for a bantam team, but certainly not a professional team.

 

[Confucius]

Flames? Last season on that team he had a 104 point season +57 and 4 goals, 6 assists and 10 points in 12 games while the team went to the 2nd round.

He went to Florida, had more support, led the team in points by 30 and went to the finals.

Defensive superstar, Marner has yet to break +23, has not yet broken 100 points, while primarily playing with a top 3 NHL center. I'd argue that Tavares in 2019 was close to a top 3 center too.

This is not even talking about the best part of Tkatchuks game and the one that he has more of in his baby toe than Marner in his whole body. Fearless play, heart, physical play, determination and grit... pick any of them...oh and leadership.

Marner may be a great captain for a bantam team, but certainly not a professional team.

1st season Sutter took over, coincidence? I think not , it’s coaching

 

[thewave]

1st season Sutter took over, coincidence? I think not , it’s coaching

You cant coach the fear out of Marner

 

[Antropovsky]

1st season Sutter took over, coincidence? I think not , it’s coaching

Jt’s 1st season here 47 goals a career high he played with Marner. Then like almost 100% of the time when a new player joins the team, everyone wonders why he isn’t as good as he was before. It’s coaching man.

Almost all of you love Tkachuk. Sure he plays for the Panthers the last 2 years, how’d he do with the Flames? Players need the right coach and the coach makes all the difference.

Oh so was Domi Matthews coached by a different coach than the Matthews Marner line?

Considering:

5vs5 Matthews- Domi line scored 23 goals in 206 mins.
5v5 Matthews- Marner line scored 42 goals in 720 mins.

• Number of goals Matthews and Domi would produce in 720 minutes: Approximately 80.39 goals.
• Percentage increase in productivity: Matthews and Domi are approximately 86.94% more productive compared to Matthews and Marner.

 

[Nineteen67]

Jt’s 1st season here 47 goals a career high he played with Marner. Then like almost 100% of the time when a new player joins the team, everyone wonders why he isn’t as good as he was before. It’s coaching man.

Almost all of you love Tkachuk. Sure he plays for the Panthers the last 2 years, how’d he do with the Flames? Players need the right coach and the coach makes all the difference.

I think it has more to do with the parents than the coaches, and Marner is what we used to call a punk.

 

[Confucius]

You cant coach the fear out of Marner

Well Marner has never had a puck flipped at him or had his mouthguard taken away all with no reaction other than slamming the team door closed.

 

[Confucius]

Oh so was Domi Matthews coached by a different coach than the Matthews Marner line?

Considering:

5vs5 Matthews- Domi line scored 23 goals in 206 mins.
5v5 Matthews- Marner line scored 42 goals in 720 mins.

• Number of goals Matthews and Domi would produce in 720 minutes: Approximately 80.39 goals.
• Percentage increase in productivity: Matthews and Domi are approximately 86.94% more productive compared to Matthews and Marner.

Different players react differently to different coaches.

 

[Antropovsky]

Well Marner has never had a puck flipped at him or had his mouthguard taken away all with no reaction other than slamming the team door closed.

So..you think fearlessness is only about how a player reacts in a scrum? You don't think it's about board battles, and play in the dirty areas.

Interesting...watching hockey long?

 

[Confucius]

So..you think fearlessness is only about how a player reacts in a scrum? You don't think it's about board battles, and play in the dirty areas.

Interesting...watching hockey long?

Maybe you didn’t read all the flack Mathews takes for ignoring a face wash or someone grabbing his sweater in a scrum

So..you think fearlessness is only about how a player reacts in a scrum? You don't think it's about board battles, and play in the dirty areas.

Interesting...watching hockey long?

It is about board battles among other things but speaking of board battles which Leaf lead the team in percentage of board battles won? Just the other guy supposed fans can’t wait to dump , JT

 

[Antropovsky]

Maybe you didn’t read all the flack Mathews takes for ignoring a face wash or someone grabbing his sweater in a scrum


It is about board battles among other things but speaking of board battles which Leaf lead the team in percentage of board battles won? Just the other guy supposed fans can’t wait to dump , JT

I've been one of the biggest supporters of Tavares for this reason. He also was second only to Hyman in the season in high danger shots I believe. Tavares also led the team by a large margin in slot shots in the playoffs prior this one.

I think Tavares and Matthews would be money together personally.

 

[Leaf Fans]

His upcoming salary will be #1 all-time.

Yeah, for a little bit.

 

[Stephen]

The guy’s either getting hat tricks or mailing it in, this should have been addressed years ago……

When the organization keeps talking about these culture shifts I think the heart of the messaging goes to Auston Matthews.

If we draw a line at his B+ game and said this is what you need to bring every night, regardless of opposition, day of the week, home or away and don’t be fixated on goals or points. I think that player will be a lot more ready to battle in the playoffs. The talent has always been there and the previous regime always talked up their talent. And belief. Now it needs to focus on actual effort level and consistency and being there every night.

 

[rumman]

When the organization keeps talking about these culture shifts I think the heart of the messaging goes to Auston Matthews.

If we draw a line at his B+ game and said this is what you need to bring every night, regardless of opposition, day of the week, home or away and don’t be fixated on goals or points. I think that player will be a lot more ready to battle in the playoffs. The talent has always been there and the previous regime always talked up their talent. And belief. Now it needs to focus on actual effort level and consistency and being there every night.

Agree……