From 08-09 to 16-17 among centres Jeff Carter was 3rd in goals, 16th in points, and 22nd in points per game among those with 100 gp, while being a strong two way player.
Richards on the other hand did fall off after Philly and was just a strong 2C.
Auston Matthews Discussion Thread
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From 08-09 to 16-17 among centres Jeff Carter was 3rd in goals, 16th in points, and 22nd in points per game among those with 100 gp, while being a strong two way player.
Richards on the other hand did fall off after Philly and was just a strong 2C.
Dreakmur
Registered User
By selecting a giant sample size that encompasses Jeff Carter’s entire career, those numbers are skewed strongly in his favour.
If we look at 2012-2014, which was LA’s Cup winning years, Carter was 108th in scoring.
From 12-13 to 16-17 - 6th among centres in goals, 14th in points, 24th in points per game among those with 70 games played.
You're 11-14 sample misrepresents the quality of player he was before, during, and after the cup runs by overweighting a truly shitty and injury marred stint in Columbus.
Dreakmur
Registered User
It doesn’t matter what he was before or after. All that matters is what he was during the cup winning season.
Eliminate the Columbus season, and just look at 2013 and 2014…. He’s like 70th in scoring.
So his his shitty stint in Columbus doesn't matter, but his two way 1C level play in LA does. Like 25 points in 26 games in a cup run, being a Canadian Olympian, etc. He's been a 1C level player for the entirety of his prime.
This is a silly hill to die on, you misremembered the quality of a player in another conference that's half a decade past his prime. Let it go lol.
The Hanging Jowl
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Dreakmur
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His 50-60 point pace in LA isn’t first line quality. Yes, he has one excellent playoff run.
If he was one of the top-30 centres, he was on the low end. He certainly wasn’t a good #1c.
It’s possible I am misremembering. As far as I recall, he wasn’t even a full time center in LA…. Kopitar, Richards, and Stoll we’re the regulars. Carter played mostly wing and filled in at center as needed.
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Dreakmur
Registered User
Their winners were Quick and Williams…. Even though they should have been Doughty and/or Kopitar both years.
Stonehands1990
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Prime Richards was a GAMER man. The type of guy you need to win. Justin Williams esque
Richards declined fast and Carter stepped up as permanent #2C for LA's 2nd cup. Richards was #4C by the time the playoffs rolled around.
The Hanging Jowl
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We don't know if we could have re-signed Bozak, and he was 32 and too expensive for a 3C. There is a reason nobody was suggesting keeping Bozak as a legitimate path back then. Even if we had kept Bozak, that's fairly mediocre center depth, and we would have had to replace him within a couple years anyway. Maybe we didn't need an elite player in that role, but I don't know why we would let that opportunity pass, especially for a position that we were not organizationally deep at. It's more similar to needing a car, getting your dream car for a good price, and then have somebody be like "well... could have just got a bike".
Stephen
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Nothing wrong with the Leafs making a big splash on the free agent market and flexing a return to contention at the time, but there’s also no need to post rationalize it as addressing an urgent need at centre either cause the imbalance with the build even then was we didn’t have heavy duty star power on defense to match our high end Big 3.
I would have done Kadri, Hyman,McCaan and Danault over Tavares, Kerfoot, Kase and Engvall I think for more balance. Difference is about a mill but Hyman might have taken .5 less then Edmonton.
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I referenced the fact that we were organizationally weak at the position as a bonus, not the main reason, but there's also no need to pretend like our center position had some great outlook for the next year and beyond without Tavares. Now, we have Tavares and a great defense.
kb
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That is not cup winning C depth. Remember that Kadri takes the playoffs off every year.
Stephen
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Well, you actually said we didn’t have Matthews, Bozak and Kadri, which we did for 2 seasons and have had the opportunity to bring back but chose not to. Nothing inherently weak about that too. Tavares is certainly an upgrade on Bozak, and we’ll see if this combination does what it was put together to do.
kb
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Yes, it's very weak. AM goes down, then what? By having Tavares, it's not automatic season over. And does the mythical version of Kadri miraculously play in the playoffs?
I said we didn't have Bozak when we didn't have Bozak - in the 2018 offseason that we were discussing. You don't know that we could have re-signed him, and we've already gone over the problems involved with doing so. Also, it's not very strong center depth regardless, especially with Bozak getting up there in age, and Kadri getting suspended every playoffs.
hamzarocks
Registered User
Getting kneed in the head once =/= getting repeatedly suspended.
The many problems with evaluating a player's contribution and value exclusively by small sample playoff production with zero context aside, this is an especially weird argument considering that over each of their last 12 playoff games, Bozak has half of the points Tavares does.
hamzarocks
Registered User
Bozak during his stint here produced around a similar rate.
In 2017 and 2018 he had 8 pts in 13 games vs two top 5 teams in the league . While JT in 2019 and 2020 has 8 in 12 vs one top 5 team and one fringe playoff team.
Obviously now that Bozaks declined his impact has gone down in the playoffs. Bozak was a key player for the blues in their cup run.
Obviously JT is a much more skilled and a superior player but his production hasn't translated despite numerous chances. He's missed a lot of easy chances and hasn't dominated as expected. He deserves to be called out for the 2020 series especially where he cost us game 5 missing the simplest of shots into an empty net
Tavares is the captain, he needs to be much better this year in the playoffs. Nylander has found ways to produce, Matthews outside of this year was producing well since 2019 come playoffs
Only JT and Marner have underwhelmed each of the past 3 years with JT missing one due to injury and Marner just not finishing any plays during this period as shown by his 0 goals in 18 games
Stephen
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Usually, a small playoff sample size is the function of not being good in the playoffs. Only one way to fix that.
Playoffs are a small sample by design, and the size of the sample in any particular playoffs is a result of your team (and the opposing team) as a whole. The situations that players experience in the playoffs also differ greatly across teams and years, making direct production comparisons without context highly problematic.
