Auston Matthews Discussion Thread

[Dekes For Days]

There is it's the rocket richard

That is not an award for "best goal scorer in the league". That is an award for most raw goals over a season. Those are very different things, and it's a ridiculously simplistic and inaccurate way to determine "best goal scorer".

Scoring the most goals makes you the best goal scorer.

That is incorrect. If player A scores 50 goals in 50 games, and player B scores 51 goals in 82 games, is player B a better goal scorer?

 

[hamzarocks]

That is not an award for "best goal scorer in the league". That is an award for most raw goals over a season. Those are very different things, and it's a ridiculously simplistic and inaccurate way to determine "best goal scorer".

That is incorrect. If player A scores 50 goals in 50 games, and player B scores 51 goals in 82 games, is player B a better goal scorer?

You've given a scenario that is extreme and rarely occurs.

Obviously if there is a 1 goal gap and 32 games in hand for 1 player he will win rocket. However that sort of scenario barely ever comes to play in the real world and matthews will never have that dominant of a season

Matthews hasn't ever led the league in gpg outside of this year. You will argue that some variation of goals/60 is either the same thing or even better stat and matthews lack of PP/EVS time under Babcock held him back but I just cant agree with that. If you play every game and still fall short of the leader you dont get an adjustment for what you could have done if your coach trusted you to play more minutes. That's a pure what if which can go either way unlike the example you gave in your comment where the player with 50 in 50 will win it for sure

We have seen matthews have hot streaks every year to start his career and then fall off as the year moves along. The same has happened this year with him going from 30 in 20 to 36 in 29 and being stuck at 21 goals now. The good thing is his peaks have risen so high that even when he falters and cools off he is still a 100ish point center as opposed to being a 85 point center.

Ovechkin has earned the mantle of best goal scorer in the league (and best goal scorer of all time when he retires) by constantly beating out his opposition in the goal scoring department

He is able to stay healthy despite playing a heavy game especially in the first 7-8 years of his career. He has been able to maintain 50 goal scoring at an age where nearly all stars fall off. His yearly dominance and health contribute to him being recognized as the best goal scorer in the league. Winning the award 2x in like 7-8 years like Crosby (a considerably better overall player than Ovechkin) didnt make him the best goal scorer in the league.

 

[Stephen]

That is not an award for "best goal scorer in the league". That is an award for most raw goals over a season. Those are very different things, and it's a ridiculously simplistic and inaccurate way to determine "best goal scorer".

That is incorrect. If player A scores 50 goals in 50 games, and player B scores 51 goals in 82 games, is player B a better goal scorer?

The situation you outlined would be worth a small historical footnote, but generally the most raw goals determines the best goal scorer, and reputation would also come into play, like how many Rockets Player A won in and around that fluke season vs Player B.

Last time this happened was Cam Neely scoring 50 in 49 games but Bure would have won the goal scoring title with 60with a bunch of guys in the 50s. That was in 1994.

 

[Sypher04]

We have seen matthews have hot streaks every year to start his career and then fall off as the year moves along. The same has happened this year with him going from 30 in 20 to 36 in 29 and being stuck at 21 goals now.

I really don't feel like this has any value without stating the important context that he's been playing through a wrist injury the entire season that was further aggravated during this stretch his production has dried up

 

[Notsince67]

marners dad has lost it on radio a couple of times about why Mitch wasn’t considered in mcdavids tier.

who knows how the families act and also. Mid-late twenties men do not have much influence from parents. They aren’t teens anymore.

but if there was a trade. Marner would clearly be the one to go.

Based on what?

 

[IrishInOntario]

Remember a couple weeks back when some Leafs fans were going full potato about Auston Matthews being the same league as Connor McDavid?... Wrist injury aside, Auston still wouldn't be close to the 60 points McDavid currently has.

The gap is significant. People just need to accept that and enjoy having a top 5 player in the league.

 

[Dekes For Days]

You've given a scenario that is extreme and rarely occurs.

You claimed there was nothing else to it though. Raw goals is all that matters, always. Suddenly, there's more to be considered. Clearly, your statement was ridiculously false. The trophy is for most raw goals in a season. That's it. Your use of the trophy to claim something entirely different is wrong.

You will argue that some variation of goals/60 is either the same thing or even better stat and matthews lack of PP/EVS time under Babcock held him back but I just cant agree with that.

Except you have never provided any evidence or reasoning to justify disagreeing or ignoring such important information, and the unquestionable impact it has on raw goals. You showed your desire to utilize rate statistics when it suits your narrative, but here, in this situation where another rate statistic is a necessity because of such significant discrepancy in a production-impacting factor, you ignore it because it doesn't suit your narrative. In case you weren't aware, Matthews also scored more raw goals against a goalie last year as well.

That's a pure what if which can go either way unlike the example you gave in your comment where the player with 50 in 50 will win it for sure

It is not a "what if". It is what happened. How do you know that the player who scored 50 in 50 will win? Maybe they score 0 goals in the next 32 games. Why is that not a "what if"?

We have seen matthews have hot streaks every year to start his career and then fall off as the year moves along. The same has happened this year with him going from 30 in 20 to 36 in 29 and being stuck at 21 goals now.

1. That's not true. In fact, last year, through his first 29 games, Matthews had a 0.55 G/GP. Through the rest of the season, he had a 0.76.
2. Every single player goes through hot and cold streaks.
3. You're completely ignoring why the pace has fallen off in the times it has.
4. You're completely ignoring that his pace fell off this year due to a wrist injury.

Ovechkin has earned the mantle of best goal scorer in the league (and best goal scorer of all time when he retires)

Ovechkin has not earned either of those.

 

[Dekes For Days]

generally the most raw goals determines the best goal scorer

There is likely quite a bit of crossover, but no, most raw goals is not the sole determination for "best goal scorer", especially when there is significant discrepancy in opportunity, whether it be games, minutes, etc.

 

[Stephen]

There is likely quite a bit of crossover, but no, most raw goals is not the sole determination for "best goal scorer", especially when there is significant discrepancy in opportunity, whether it be games, minutes, etc.

Don't really see the point in trying to put such a fine distinction between "Rocket winner" and "best goal scorer" unless you're going to the mat with another fanbase on an internet message board and need to differentiate between Matthews being the best goal scorer while possibly losing the Rocket to someone you think is undeserving.

I hope Matthews is able to pull this off, but the race is tight. For all we know, David Pastrnak could finish with a higher GPG average in way less games due to Covid protocol and injuries and then we have people disputing a Matthews scoring title.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Don't really see the point in trying to put such a fine distinction between "Rocket winner" and "best goal scorer"

Because they're not the same thing. One does not automatically equal the other. I don't really see the point in discussing something inaccurately, while ignoring relevant information.

 

[Stephen]

Because they're not the same thing. One does not automatically equal the other. I don't really see the point in discussing something inaccurately, while ignoring relevant information.

Just seems like you're creating a technicality that can be used to assert Matthews is best in show even if he loses the Rocket. I just hope he wins the Rocket so we don't have to go down this rabbit hole.

 

[WillTheThrill]

Remember a couple weeks back when some Leafs fans were going full potato about Auston Matthews being the same league as Connor McDavid?... Wrist injury aside, Auston still wouldn't be close to the 60 points McDavid currently has.

The gap is significant. People just need to accept that and enjoy having a top 5 player in the league.

Yup. You’d think people would have learned by now but sadly when Matthews has an unbelievable hot start next yr those people will be back. Let’s just enjoy having Auston on our team! It’s ok that he’s not the best player in the world.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Just seems like you're creating a technicality that can be used to assert Matthews is best in show even if he loses the Rocket.

It's not a "technicality" just because it doesn't mesh with your pre-conceived ideas. They literally mean different things, and there are superior ways of evaluating what is being discussed than solely whether or not they got a shiny metal trophy. Not sure why there's such opposition to accuracy over simplicity.

 

[authentic]

He is the best goal scorer in the world without a doubt. Although I know for a fact he would not be challenging McDavid for best overall player or in the point race regardless of opportunity or injury and there's really nothing wrong with that.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

Really wish Matthews had scored one more goal before the shutdown last season. Honestly there shouldn’t have been a Rocket awarded at all with the season cut off and uneven games played, but at least he would’ve “won” the award already and this best goal scorer nonsense wouldn’t be so ridiculous. Yes Ovi is a better goal scorer the past two seasons because he beat out Matthews with one goal in an incomplete season.

 

[6ix]

That is not an award for "best goal scorer in the league". That is an award for most raw goals over a season. Those are very different things, and it's a ridiculously simplistic and inaccurate way to determine "best goal scorer".

That is incorrect. If player A scores 50 goals in 50 games, and player B scores 51 goals in 82 games, is player B a better goal scorer?

All it means is he’s a bandaid and a choke artist. The best goal scorers win rockets. Stamkos, OV, hell even Perry have them. Year in and year out he finds a way to get injured or take games off. He was an absolute embarrassment last season before the shutdown when he took that Cali road trip as a Sunday skate, which costed him the rocket.

 

[Dekes For Days]

All it means is he’s a bandaid and a choke artist.

Good lord. No it doesn't mean that at all.

 

[81Leafs50]

PPP/60
Mathews 6.06
Mcdavid 8.65

Mcdavid is just that good

^ morons who dont read well.

McDavid total PP on ice time 159:28
Matthewstotal PP on ice time 98:58

the difference is 61 mins. That is an hour more on the PP. I would certainly hope McDavid score more PP pts than Matthews with this much more time on the PP.

McDavid Power play total ice time per game 4:41 (4th in the NHL)
Matthews Power play total ice time per game 3:25 (58th in the NHL)

 

[therealkoho]

I predict Matty is going to pot 28 goals in the second half, and Mitch will assist on most of them.

 

[Garthinater]

Remember a couple weeks back when some Leafs fans were going full potato about Auston Matthews being the same league as Connor McDavid?... Wrist injury aside, Auston still wouldn't be close to the 60 points McDavid currently has.

The gap is significant. People just need to accept that and enjoy having a top 5 player in the league.

Some thought he was going to go a goal per game rofl

Great player. Top 5 center. But man do some leaf fans over rate this guy.

 

[supsens]

^ morons who dont read well.

McDavid total PP on ice time 159:28
Matthewstotal PP on ice time 98:58

the difference is 61 mins. That is an hour more on the PP. I would certainly hope McDavid score more PP pts than Matthews with this much more time on the PP.

McDavid Power play total ice time per game 4:41 (4th in the NHL)
Matthews Power play total ice time per game 3:25 (58th in the NHL)

Ya and what does that have to do with per 60? Nothing.....
Moron pfff

 

[81Leafs50]

Ya and what does that have to do with per 60? Nothing.....
Moron pfff

WOW someone clearly doesnt understand how per 60 is calculated. BUT loves to throw "advanced stats" around. LMAO

 

[Notsince67]

WOW someone clearly doesnt understand how per 60 is calculated. BUT loves to throw "advanced stats" around. LMAO

He posted ppp per 60 and you explain that the reason McDavid is higher is because he gets more time than Matthews?

When is 60 min <> 60 min?

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Matthews & Marner getting going again would be nice. Matthews is colder than the ice. I can’t even believe how many goals he’s missed by inches in the last bit ha. It’s crazy. He has to get a few greasy ones to get him going here.