thewave
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Marners attitude is even worse. Willy rides public transportation and chills with the common people and says this is the only place to win.
Player Discussion Auston Matthews (Captain Edition)
- Thread starter Aashir
- Start date
Marners attitude is even worse. Willy rides public transportation and chills with the common people and says this is the only place to win.
I'm a critic of Matthews. I think he is one of the least 'likeable' and 'relateable' superstars in all of hockey. Its been about a decade now and he doesn't produce in the playoffs.
However, with regard to elevating the play of his linemates, I don't want to brush that aside. The numbers/analytics, and the eye-test, show that Knies is who he is mostly because of Matthews:
-During this year's playoffs, when Knies is on the ice with Matthews, the Leafs score a goal about every 10 minutes of ice time.
-Knies has 43 minutes of play without Matthews...0 goals scored, 4 goals against.
Go back to the regular season:
-Knies and Matthews on the ice together: Leafs score a goal about every 10.5 minutes of ice time.
-Knies without Matthews (550+ minutes) Leafs score a goal about every 20 minutes.
For his career, regular season and playoffs combined, Knies is a positive player, postive goal differential player by far when on the ice with Matthews. When not on the ice with Matthews (even if its Marner, Tavares, WN, or others), Knies is a negative goal differential guy by far.
If you like what Knies is doing as far as production, all signs and numbers and analytics point to that only being done with him skating besides Matthews. As much love as Knies is getting on other threads, again, take him away from Matthews and the production, quite simply, isn't there.
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Captain14
Registered User
This is exactly that scenario right down to the disdain of the fan base.
Eichel can skate, shoot and pass at a very high level and has greatly elevated his linemates play. Can the same be said of 34?
Stephen
Moderator
- Feb 28, 2002
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I think MLSE will protect the player from any public blowback in the short term and they are infinitely more corporate and unemotional and professional in a way Buffalo isn’t. But in the long run they might look at Auston and just come to the same conclusions as disappointed fans are and say it’s not good enough and you’ve made decisions that didn’t put the team and health ahead of extra curricular events and didn’t see the superstar oomph we need.
Stephen
Moderator
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I don’t agree with this assessment from an eye test perspective. Matthew Knies is a bull in a china shop who can use his size and skating to do the heavy lift when he’s set up to score.
No doubt his defensive responsibilities are lessened by having 2 Selke pretenders with him. But between Marner wanting to play like Quinn Hughes and Matthews letting Knies spearhead every puck retreat, corner battle with 2 guys on him I don’t think Matthews is supporting him the right way. He’s certainly not leading from the front. He’s not coherently carrying a puck any length of the ice. And he’s not making great passing plays. He makes sluggish small area passes to nowhere the receiver needs to take from a virtual stand still.
I think Knies is doing a lot of heavy lift to drag these guys along.
Captain14
Registered User
You mean the two year “career” of Knies?
That kid is just breaking out and there is no doubt in my mind he will be successful without 34.
The leafs all time record is 42-22 with Matthews out of the lineup including a 7-2 stint this year.
I’m convinced that we would be just fine with the proper $7-10 million dollar players in lieu of 16 and 34.
Superstar
"Be water, my friend."
- Jun 25, 2008
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4 year deal is perhaps the best deal in disguise for the Leafs.
Throw More Waffles
Unprecedented Dramatic Overpayments
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On Matthews second nhl season he had 1 goal and 1 assist in 7 games in the playoffs.
It's hilarious looking through the thread about him from 2018. The excuses stemmed from "Babcock's fault" to "he's still a teenager" to the ol' classic "He's clearly injured."
Nobody is even entertaining the thought that this will be a long term problem. That Matthews just forgets how to play ice hockey ever single season when the playoffs begin. I'm not blaming the posters for being wrong. It was too early to know. He was 19 and had 1 decent playoff round and 1 abysmal one.
But here we are SEVEN playoffs later, and it's STILL many of the same excuses from far too many posters. He's "injured"? AGAIN? AGAIN????? No, he's not. he just sucks in the playoffs.
His regular season career average is 54 goals/82 and 95 points.
In the playoffs it's (lol) 31 goals/82 and 73 points.
Is there ANY precedent in this from any other super star player in the entire history of the league? Even players infamous for being playoff chokers, like Joe Thornton, don't have anywhere near as big of a stat decline in the playoffs. And the majority of superstar players ELEVATE their game in the playoffs and have BETTER stats per 82.
Nothing like Auston Matthews has EVER happened in the history of the sport. A complete enigma. They need and entire colony of psychologists studying him around the clock to see what the f*** is wrong with him.
It's hilarious looking through the thread about him from 2018. The excuses stemmed from "Babcock's fault" to "he's still a teenager" to the ol' classic "He's clearly injured."
Nobody is even entertaining the thought that this will be a long term problem. That Matthews just forgets how to play ice hockey ever single season when the playoffs begin. I'm not blaming the posters for being wrong. It was too early to know. He was 19 and had 1 decent playoff round and 1 abysmal one.
But here we are SEVEN playoffs later, and it's STILL many of the same excuses from far too many posters. He's "injured"? AGAIN? AGAIN????? No, he's not. he just sucks in the playoffs.
His regular season career average is 54 goals/82 and 95 points.
In the playoffs it's (lol) 31 goals/82 and 73 points.
Is there ANY precedent in this from any other super star player in the entire history of the league? Even players infamous for being playoff chokers, like Joe Thornton, don't have anywhere near as big of a stat decline in the playoffs. And the majority of superstar players ELEVATE their game in the playoffs and have BETTER stats per 82.
Nothing like Auston Matthews has EVER happened in the history of the sport. A complete enigma. They need and entire colony of psychologists studying him around the clock to see what the f*** is wrong with him.
Superstar
"Be water, my friend."
- Jun 25, 2008
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It is always odd to me when people think a player can't play hockey well without another player...did Knies got carried by Matthews the day he laced up the skates as a kid? How the heck did Knies even made the NHL? Did Hull became a loser without Oates? Did the small guy DeBrincat stopped playing hockey without McDavid? Did Molginy forgot hockey without LaFontaine? No wonder Rantanen sucks these playoffs without MacKinnon...
Stephen
Moderator
- Feb 28, 2002
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On Matthews second nhl season he had 1 goal and 1 assist in 7 games in the playoffs.
It's hilarious looking through the thread about him from 2018. The excuses stemmed from "Babcock's fault" to "he's still a teenager" to the ol' classic "He's clearly injured."
Nobody is even entertaining the thought that this will be a long term problem. That Matthews just forgets how to play ice hockey ever single season when the playoffs begin. I'm not blaming the posters for being wrong. It was too early to know. He was 19 and had 1 decent playoff round and 1 abysmal one.
But here we are SEVEN playoffs later, and it's STILL many of the same excuses from far too many posters. He's "injured"? AGAIN? AGAIN????? No, he's not. he just sucks in the playoffs.
His regular season career average is 54 goals/82 and 95 points.
In the playoffs it's (lol) 31 goals/82 and 73 points.
Is there ANY precedent in this from any other super star player in the entire history of the league? Even players infamous for being playoff chokers, like Joe Thornton, don't have anywhere near as big of a stat decline in the playoffs. And the majority of superstar players ELEVATE their game in the playoffs and have BETTER stats per 82.
Nothing like Auston Matthews has EVER happened in the history of the sport. A complete enigma. They need and entire colony of psychologists studying him around the clock to see what the f*** is wrong with him.
I look back on this version of Auston Matthews and just wonder what that kid would have thought about what happened in the next 8 years in the playoffs if you gave him a look at the crystal ball.
Superstar
"Be water, my friend."
- Jun 25, 2008
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Probably weighed down by all that change he's been carrying in the jock strap over the years...
- Oct 18, 2010
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On Matthews second nhl season he had 1 goal and 1 assist in 7 games in the playoffs.
It's hilarious looking through the thread about him from 2018. The excuses stemmed from "Babcock's fault" to "he's still a teenager" to the ol' classic "He's clearly injured."
Nobody is even entertaining the thought that this will be a long term problem. That Matthews just forgets how to play ice hockey ever single season when the playoffs begin. I'm not blaming the posters for being wrong. It was too early to know. He was 19 and had 1 decent playoff round and 1 abysmal one.
But here we are SEVEN playoffs later, and it's STILL many of the same excuses from far too many posters. He's "injured"? AGAIN? AGAIN????? No, he's not. he just sucks in the playoffs.
His regular season career average is 54 goals/82 and 95 points.
In the playoffs it's (lol) 31 goals/82 and 73 points.
Is there ANY precedent in this from any other super star player in the entire history of the league? Even players infamous for being playoff chokers, like Joe Thornton, don't have anywhere near as big of a stat decline in the playoffs. And the majority of superstar players ELEVATE their game in the playoffs and have BETTER stats per 82.
Nothing like Auston Matthews has EVER happened in the history of the sport. A complete enigma. They need and entire colony of psychologists studying him around the clock to see what the f*** is wrong with him.
This city is SOFT. It's apparent in so many different ways. And if he makes a fluke play in the next game, these folks will come out of the woodwork to put him on a pedestal and call it a signature moment.
TheGreatOne11
Registered User
Stephen
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This city is SOFT. It's apparent in so many different ways. And if he makes a fluke play in the next game, these folks will come out of the woodwork to put him on a pedestal and call it a signature moment.
Isn’t that just people responding to the reality in front of them?
“Oh if he goes off and leads this team to a championship people are going to call him an MVP or something.”
leafs in five
Registered User
I don't understand his decision-making on the PP at all. and that stuff is not like a contest of wills where the player who most hates to lose prevails. it's just that he stands in weird places and move into weird awkward spaces and makes puzzling reads and decisions with and without the puck. e.g. when Nylander dug it out against the near boards on maybe the last PP, and Marner was behind him at the blueline against that wall as you'd expect, so Nylander tried to feed the area across the blueline where you'd expect the right dman to be, but Matthews had already started wheeling toward his spot around the far hashmarks so it went straight out of the zone. Nylander frequently directs him to pass it quicker to Marner, and then looked him off on one of the earlier PPs when there was a lane for a one-timer. I dunno
I'm just looking at the numbers, actual production.It is always odd to me when people think a player can't play hockey well without another player...did Knies got carried by Matthews the day he laced up the skates as a kid? How the heck did Knies even made the NHL? Did Hull became a loser without Oates? Did the small guy DeBrincat stopped playing hockey without McDavid? Did Molginy forgot hockey without LaFontaine? No wonder Rantanen sucks these playoffs without MacKinnon...
The truth, while some may want to ignore it, is he has considerable minutes away from Matthews in the past 2 years and his production is way, way lower.
Menzinger
Kessel4LadyByng
His shooting is definitely off, which has been the case since mid season.
That said, the rest of your points remain very valid. If he can't snipe like he used to be needs to find ways to provide offense through other means, which includes getting dirty.
I'd like to see some more shifts with Nylander next game. Maybe he can drag the offense out of Matthews
- Nov 15, 2020
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I just think it is ridiculous. There is a thread on the main NHL forum, a thread on the cup forum, and a thread here trashing a guy who is elite defensively, 10 points in the post season, dominant in faceoff, etc as if he has done nothing.
Do we need him to score some goals? Yes. His goalscoring is clearly off and has been all season though.
Reality is, people want to hate him and the team, even our own fans. Every win is a fluke and every loss is proof with this team. Tiring. Reminder we are 2-2 in a series against the cup champs that most had us getting brushed aside in
Do we need him to score some goals? Yes. His goalscoring is clearly off and has been all season though.
Reality is, people want to hate him and the team, even our own fans. Every win is a fluke and every loss is proof with this team. Tiring. Reminder we are 2-2 in a series against the cup champs that most had us getting brushed aside in
Superstar
"Be water, my friend."
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He isn't paid $8 or $9 million per year...his contract is based on him being an elite goal scoring centre...if he scored some more goals, Leafs might be up 3-1, with the chance of making to the next round being greater. That's essentially the difference in advancing deeper into the playoffs, making the Final and winning a Cup. Are you comfortable if Matthews continue not to score a goal, and Leafs get ousted in the next couple of games, even if he gets a couple of more points?
Larcos_Unal
Excuses are for losers
You're looking at this year's playoff performance only when the fanbase is reacting to 9 years' worth of playoff disappointments. If Matthews had at some point gone Draisaitl mode and taken over a series by scoring 2ppg then maybe he'd get a pass.
NINE YEARS of the guy going ghost in the playoffs while demanding top dollar, it's reached its boiling point and I'm here for it. Nobody in this market has ever gotten more of a free pass than Matthews...now that he's got the C on his chest the expectations are higher, he's not meeting them.
- Apr 19, 2019
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f*** the defence and f*** the faceoffs
I seriously don't care if my teams superstars are good defensively, that can be the depths job. If our stars are gonna kill their offence for 'defence' then it's a net negative for the team. They won't be out there beating the goalie and causing him to lose confidence/overthink allowing the lesser depth pieces to produce. It's not a coincedence that we scored 5 when nylander was leading the charge with 2 goals.
But is it a coincedence that our players are elite defensively and we are out in round 1? Mark stone had to be demoted to 3rd best player on his team to win a cup. Bergeron was getting outplayed by his own 2C in both finals runs.
No one wants to hate auston matthews, he is making it impossible to like him though. There are two ways for matthews to have people like him:
1. Show the f*** up. Not on defence, but as an offensive player. Be the best player in the game, score a few goals and grab a few assists. I don't care about injuries everyone is hurt this time of year
2. Go back in time to 2016 and tell himself not to practice. He won't be as good and we won't draft him first overall
As for the reminder: it's irrelevant, we were up 2-0 and just needed one win over the next two to essentially close out the series. He couldn't close it out (again) in game 3 and was a no show in game 4 (big surprise).
I don't think there's been a single playoff game this year where I could say "Wow 34 was the best player on the ice, he was unstoppable"
It's not good enough from him and he shouldn't hide behind his injury excuses or linemates for it.
ITM
As Long As It Takes
- Jan 26, 2012
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Well, Exhibit A to my detractors.
THAT’s the dynamic, two-way force I recall when I say he has regressed.
That player on this team and the series might be over.
#ShaveTheStache
- Nov 15, 2020
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What does it matter if he is the one shooting it in the net or if he passes it to an open guy who does if he created the goal? Seriously.
thewave
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