News Article: Auston Matthews - August 1st., Contract Crickets

[Sypher04]

The main reason I'd like to see as much term awarded as possible is because of teammates potentially using his contract as a comparable for their own. I don't expect the biggest negotiations to be any easier this time around and think that the numbers for Matthews will ultimately end up in the neighbourhood of where you've anticipated them to be.

That’s fair enough. That’s the first rational argument I’ve seen anyone present as to why it has to be 8 years vs say 5

 

[4thline]

You understand that Crosby has been grossly underpaid by AAV due to the type of deal he signed than isn’t even legal anymore, right?

Suggestion Matthews didn’t meet his contract is utterly ridiculous

The first 8 years of Crosby's contract came with total dollars that should have translated to a 10.8million dollar cap hit.

 

[Sypher04]

The first 8 years of Crosby's contract came with total dollars that should have translated to a 10.8million dollar cap hit.

Yup. And he clearly left money on the table to get his number 8.7 (87). At the time no one would have batted an eye if he took 800k more per year like OV.

And the cap has grown dramatically since Crosby signed back in 2012 (when it was only $60M compared to like $80M when Matthews signed his deal)

 

[Throw More Waffles]

It's also worth mentioning that the contract scenarios that have gotten folks the most riled up are (so far) pulled from people's imaginations....

All we know in terms of reporting from the media that Mattehws will likely not be seeking a 7 or 8 year term deal and that it will have the highest league aav.

The above two facts don't necessarily mean he's going to be getting 15 mil over 3 years as locked in......

How did we get to a point where it's even acceptable that Matthews wants to be paid as the best player in the league on shorter terms than everybody else? How is that not seen as anything short of utterly outrageous?

Go ask a typical NHL fan "who is the best player in the world". What percentage would say Matthews? 1%? 0%? So why is he demanding to be paid as the best player? How can that be viewed as ANYTHING other than pure greed and an absolute horseshit attitude? How could that be viewed as ANYTHING other than he doesn't give a shit about winning?

 

[Throw More Waffles]

It's also worth mentioning that the Players Association would have a collective meltdown if Matthews does not drive the value of the contract above the current highest value - MacKinnon at $12.6m.

Why the hell would the union care about this?

The players get half of revenue even if Matthews plays for free.

 

[therealkoho]

Why is it assumed Doan was brought in for Matthews? Wasn’t the GM in Arizona for a long time with Doan?

They crossed paths there for sure, but Doan was off working with Hockey Canada mostly, or so I've read.

 

[egd27]

You're probably right - we'll see

The only card the Leafs have is the threat of a trade before July 1 which already has 2 strikes against it

1. The team must have the cap room and believe that they are trading for more than a 1 year rental in order to be willing to give value
2. Matthews can let it be known that he's not signing anything, anywhere prior to July 1 and almost completely negate his value to other teams

 

[therealkoho]

FACT. Matthews says he wants to be a Maple Leaf.
FACT. Matthews said he wants to be a Maple without knowing Dubas was going to resign and no Shane Doan in Toronto.
FACT. Matthews has been a model citizen in Toronto.

Fact: Matthews lied to management about the mooning incident
Fact: Matthews father promoted and participated in the furtherance of that lie.
Fact: The apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

There is a distinct lack of character exhibited in all that.

Fact

 

[PromisedLand]

Sign him to a reasonable deal or trade him, I'm tired of this greedy piggy

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Hayes is 1 million % correct.

Yup!

If Leafs give Matthews 14 to 15 AAV say good bye to any hope of having any playoff success. Shanny+Treliving should be taken to woodshed.

I don't give a flying F; if Matthews wants that he's gotta be traded. Period!

 

[therealkoho]

The only card the Leafs have is the threat of a trade which already has 2 strikes against it

1. The team must have the cap room and believe that they are trading for more than a 1 year rental in order to be willing to give value
2. Matthews can let it be known that he's not signing anything, anywhere prior to July 1 and almost completely negate his value to other teams

A team that's really close doesn't need him, that's for sure

A team on the way up that's lets say in SoCal more than likely wants him and its where he spent a lot of his formative years, not to mention his BFF, once it wasn't Marner anymore happens to reside there.

 

[PromisedLand]

Matthews should be getting max 12.5M on an 8 year deal.

100% agreed. If he wants anything else he should be traded.

I'd rather go rebuild/retool route again.

 

[Sypher04]

How did we get to a point where it's even acceptable that Matthews wants to be paid as the best player in the league on shorter terms than everybody else? How is that not seen as anything short of utterly outrageous?

Go ask a typical NHL fan "who is the best player in the world". What percentage would say Matthews? 1%? 0%? So why is he demanding to be paid as the best player? How can that be viewed as ANYTHING other than pure greed and an absolute horseshit attitude? How could that be viewed as ANYTHING other than he doesn't give a shit about winning?

1. Matthews hasn’t demanded anything that we are aware of. All we have is media speculation often passed off as reporting. We have no idea what he wants or what is actually important to him right now.
2. Matthews has been one of the very best players in the world over the first 4 years of his deal and that’s a statement of fact, not opinion.
3. This current term was less than ideal. If this deal is again a medium term, around 4 or 5 years, he’s in the middle of his 20s. He’ll be 27 the first game he plays of any extension. These are the expensive years, whether we get his 32-34 years frankly who cares right now. 6 seasons from now is a long time - nothing wrong with having a chance to re-evaluate things on an aging star
4. 99% of people are going to say McDavid. He is I think 5 years into his 12.5M deal. If Matthews edged his deal by a few hundred thousand people have to understand he was actually paid less.
5. Obviously we’d all like to see him leave money on the table so we can best compete, but there is nothing wrong with a player taking their worth. We just cannot overpay. Not that people are going to agree on where that overpay line is

 

[PromisedLand]

Hopefully Treliving can make the case for giving him big money up front is a hhhuuuugggeee advantage. The fact Dubas did that and still didn’t receive any concessions was a travesty. Let’s say he he signed for 12.5 x5, with 50 mil up front. If he invests that money conservatively , he can generate 5 percent just on dividends. So that 2.5 mil a year (never mind the compound interest), meaning an extra 12.5 by the time the deal ends. Essentially 15 mil a year. Most other teams can’t do this, the Leafs can, and it’s about f***ing time these players start to accommodate on the AAV because we give it all up front. It’s not hardball, it’s math. So tired of the entitled atmosphere here, you play for the CADILLAC of the league, you have everything.

YUP!

Makar a Norris D-man and a freakin stud signed a 6 year deal and basically got nothing in terms of up front money and guess what no NTC/NMC either

Dubas was a freakin' JOKE

compare that to Matthews

and Marner

 

[Sypher04]

YUP!

Makar a Norris D-man and a freakin stud signed a 6 year deal and basically got nothing in terms of up front money and guess what no NTC/NMC either

Dubas was a freakin' JOKE

View attachment 715840

compare that to Matthews
View attachment 715841
and Marner
View attachment 715843

The way we can structure a deal is very uncommon around the league and a huge point in favour of why Matthews may prefer to extend here that doesn’t come up often

 

[Throw More Waffles]

YUP!

Makar a Norris D-man and a freakin stud signed a 6 year deal and basically got nothing in terms of up front money and guess what no NTC/NMC either

Dubas was a freakin' JOKE

View attachment 715840

compare that to Matthews
View attachment 715841
and Marner
View attachment 715843

Far be it from me to even hint at defending Dubas....

But covid contracts are a weird time where players wanted the highest paid years a few years in the future. This was to avoid paying 20% escrow on their highest paid years.

That being said, the core leaf player contracts are MASSIVELY player friendly. Not team freindly.

 

[TheGreenTBer]

Why is everyone so hell bent on getting Matthews’ 34/35 year old seasons? 4-6 year term covers our window and lets us sell him while he’s still in his prime if we don’t win. Plus you cover your downside on the risk of his wrist never getting back to what it was.

I agree with this.

If you're going to re-sign him (personally I've had enough of all of them and would burn it down, but I acknowledge that's an extremist view) a short-term deal (I mean like 5 years or so) might be worse actual value but better for the team.

With this dude's health concerns, ain't no way he's going to be a Top 6 player in 8 years, if he's even a usable NHL'er at all.

 

[therealkoho]

It was in the exit interview. If you watch it. He says about his intention to sign. The honour etc. then he was asked about timelines and he said it’s important to him to get it done before the season starts. He’s not worried it will get done in due time

I’m sure it’s on YouTube

and I'm pretty sure he was just throwing red meat to the media.

He's already proved it just about the Benjamin's, the highest bidder gets his services. He has said he wants to be the highest paid player in the NHL. His reasons probably include that Hart, and for many Leafs fans that's reason enough for them too. However, two words, Taylor Hall! A notable former Hart trophy winner.

That Hart season was great but it might be his only one, why would the Leafs have to pay his great grandchildren for it, he's been paid for it already.

McJeebuzz has never had a drop off like the one Matthews just had, and he's suffered worse injuries than 34 and has come back better than ever. He is still the best player in the league bar none, he should be the highest paid, but I understand why MacKinnon got a few dollars more, that Stanley Cup he led the Avs too is a powerful argument.

There is no argument like that for Matthews.

 

[TheGreenTBer]

How did we get to a point where it's even acceptable that Matthews wants to be paid as the best player in the league on shorter terms than everybody else? How is that not seen as anything short of utterly outrageous?

Go ask a typical NHL fan "who is the best player in the world". What percentage would say Matthews? 1%? 0%? So why is he demanding to be paid as the best player? How can that be viewed as ANYTHING other than pure greed and an absolute horseshit attitude? How could that be viewed as ANYTHING other than he doesn't give a shit about winning?

Because Kyle Dubas, that's why.

Sadly some people still defend those contracts.

 

[keonsbitterness]

100% agreed. If he wants anything else he should be traded.

I'd rather go rebuild/retool route again.

I think ownership has zero interest in a rebuild.

 

[geo25]

and I'm pretty sure he was just throwing red meat to the media.

He's already proved it just about the Benjamin's, the highest bidder gets his services. He has said he wants to be the highest paid player in the NHL. His reasons probably include that Hart, and for many Leafs fans that's reason enough for them too. However, two words, Taylor Hall! A notable former Hart trophy winner.

That Hart season was great but it might be his only one, why would the Leafs have to pay his great grandchildren for it, he's been paid for it already.

McJeebuzz has never had a drop off like the one Matthews just had, and he's suffered worse injuries than 34 and has come back better than ever. He is still the best player in the league bar none, he should be the highest paid, but I understand why MacKinnon got a few dollars more, that Stanley Cup he led the Avs too is a powerful argument.

There is no argument like that for Matthews.

Bingo!

 

[Sypher04]

and I'm pretty sure he was just throwing red meat to the media.

He's already proved it just about the Benjamin's, the highest bidder gets his services. He has said he wants to be the highest paid player in the NHL. His reasons probably include that Hart, and for many Leafs fans that's reason enough for them too. However, two words, Taylor Hall! A notable former Hart trophy winner.

That Hart season was great but it might be his only one, why would the Leafs have to pay his great grandchildren for it, he's been paid for it already.

McJeebuzz has never had a drop off like the one Matthews just had, and he's suffered worse injuries than 34 and has come back better than ever. He is still the best player in the league bar none, he should be the highest paid, but I understand why MacKinnon got a few dollars more, that Stanley Cup he led the Avs too is a powerful argument.

There is no argument like that for Matthews.

Come on Koho. I know you know how this works.

McDavid signed his deal 5 years ago.

Matthews has a lot more to support his argument to be among the very top paid players beyond just the Hart which is largely why Taylor Hall is a poor comparison.

Matthews has made no such comment about wanting to be the highest paid player. Maybe he thinks it. Most of us agreed well in advance of recent chatter he likely would be highest paid at least briefly until Draisaitl passes him. But he has never said anything of the sort

McDavid was the highest, until half a decade passed and someone will pass him when Mac’s extension kicks in next year. And McDavid will be again in 3 years or whatever it is.

MacKinnons cup means little to nothing regarding what he got paid. He was getting paid with or without it

 

[therealkoho]

Posted this in another thread, thought it was this one....oh well lol

I'm now convinced Shanahan was behind the contracts for Matthews and Marner.

Dubas never said the core 4 were untouchable. His main beef was he wanted more power, and not having to continue run everything through Shanahan. If he thought it was necessary to trade Matthews, Marner or Nylander he wanted to be able to do that with no interference from anyone.

It was that refusal, not just money IMO that got him turfed.

Why do I think that?

Shanahan reportedly contacted Matthews, Marner and Nylander and told them they would not be traded. Treliving has come out and said we need to do something

The Shanahan thing was speculation by Chris Johnston, based on Shanny telling him the players were informed of what was coming so they'd be prepared for the media storm that would create.

Shanahan I doubt would have handcuffed an incoming GM by telling any of them that they would not be traded.

 

[PromisedLand]

Far be it from me to even hint at defending Dubas....

But covid contracts are a weird time where players wanted the highest paid years a few years in the future. This was to avoid paying 20% escrow on their highest paid years.

That being said, the core leaf player contracts are MASSIVELY player friendly. Not team freindly.

I don't know man. Point signed his contract post covid and the structure of his contract and Makar's contract is different

here is point's contract

even if you look at Tkachuk and Barkov's contract structure they are getting quite a bit up front

Then you compare Pasta's contract with bruins the structure is different in comparison to all of Point, Tkachuk, Barkov contracts too but he Pasta still gets some money up front. Panarin's contract (UFA) is also structured similarly (signed pre-covid though).

For comparison check Aho's deal from Canes (no NTC/NMCs either); pre-covid contract and 5 year term too; most paid out in Signing bonuses up front.

Basically, what am trying to say is Dubas gave the contract that was very player friendly at the cost of the franchise.

If we are to do similar contracts then we should be able to negotiate decent AAV and clauses where last 2 to 3 yars should be M-NTC or nothing ; they can get NMC for the frist few years.

No way Matthews should be getting any ridiculous AAV and all the clauses like dubas gave both him and marner. not anymore. If he wants that he can go ask for it from another franchise. We are not going to freakin' run a player friendly charity. You play for the Leafs here.

 

[therealkoho]

Come on Koho. I know you know how this works.

McDavid signed his deal 5 years ago.

Matthews has a lot more to support his argument to be among the very top paid players beyond just the Hart which is largely why Taylor Hall is a poor comparison.

Matthews has made no such comment about wanting to be the highest paid player. Maybe he thinks it. Most of us agreed well in advance of recent chatter he likely would be highest paid at least briefly until Draisaitl passes him. But he has never said anything of the sort

McDavid was the highest, until half a decade passed and someone will pass him when Mac’s extension kicks in next year. And McDavid will be again in 3 years or whatever it is.

MacKinnons cup means little to nothing regarding what he got paid. He was getting paid with or without it

"Cmon" right back at you, the SC wins tore the Hawks apart with all the piggys looking for more money and the team not having any because Kane and Toews got theirs first.

UFAs get more if they have a ring, it's always that way.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

I agree with this.

If you're going to re-sign him (personally I've had enough of all of them and would burn it down, but I acknowledge that's an extremist view) a short-term deal (I mean like 5 years or so) might be worse actual value but better for the team.

With this dude's health concerns, ain't no way he's going to be a Top 6 player in 8 years, if he's even a usable NHL'er at all.

The good news about a 5 year deal is that it means Matthews has confidence in his health and doesn't have a nagging chronic injury.

If he had a nagging chronic injury, he'd want to lock up 8 full years at elite pay.

The 5 year contract is growing on me. But not if it means we have to pay a "prime years" premium.