News Article: Auston Matthews - August 1st., Contract Crickets

[Captain Crunch]

Why wouldn’t marner ask for matthews money. He is comparable to matthews in every category and is out best all around player.

The disconnect for leaf fans is the marner nylander comparison. Nylander fans have always tried to pit the two against each other and try to belittle marner is many childish ways. And Vica versa with marner fans doing the same to nylander.

In my favourite scenario we traded matthews and kept marner nylander but we all know that’s not going to happen. I believe matthews cannot elevate his game in the playoffs. If you want to be called generational and be the highest paid player in the league you can’t disappear when the going gets tough. IMHO we won’t win a cup with matthews

I am torn on this one. I think at least 9 times out of 10, you pick the franchise center over a winger. Matthews has won many NHL awards, including the Rocket Richard trophy twice, as well as both the Hart trophy and Ted Lindsay award, not to mention the Calder. He rarely plays the PK, while Marner is a staple there. Marner, to my knowledge, has never led the league in assists. And we all know how hard it is to acquire a true franchise center.
However, in saying all that, I believe both were overpaid on their last contracts and their term should have been for 8 years. As well, all indications are pointing that they intend to do the same thing this time around. Both have disappeared at crucial times in the playoffs, and neither have been able to put this team on their backs to win rounds in the playoffs (be leaders)! As far as I’m concerned, they are all about themselves first, and team second.

 

[supermann_98]

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Those contracts really were so terrible. Would be nice if Matthews rectified that with this contract. Not holding my breath though.

If these 2 dragged us to the SC finals or hell, even a conference finals, I’d have no problem with their contracts.

Problem is as soon as the playoffs start the lights in their collective heads turns off like they can’t WAIT to go golfing/wake boarding.

After the 3-1 debacle against the Habs of all teams I give them no quarter.

 

[ToneDog]

Dumabass becomes GM with the 3 amigos on ELCs. Tre becomes GM a month+ before the 3 amigos NMCs kick in with virtually no time to move 16 or 34 if he even considered it.

The team is now f***ed, and will have to overpay the 3 losers all thanks to the brilliance of the last GM and his boss.

 

[Dekes For Days]

So now you’re saying you know what Dubas thought, as you said his assumptions are flawed?

I didn't say that I know what Dubas thought. I indicated that the individual I responded to should stop making assumptions about what Dubas thought, especially ones that directly contradict his words and actions. I'm not really sure how we benefit from misrepresenting Dubas and assassinating his character.

Every team has different mixtures of players, not just successful ones. Being able to utilize whatever qualities you have to be good at hockey does indeed matter. Now as you’ve said many times before, luck also plays a part. It’s strange how luck hasn’t affected how well the Leafs do in the regular season, but then continues to rear its ugly head come playoffs.

The point is that there is no "winning mixture".
We've been affected by "luck" in the regular season too, but "luck" impacts are going to naturally decrease with a bigger and more varied sample.

The one constant in these past 5 playoffs has been the core, including Rielly (who in my opinion has played his best come playoff time, and truly earned what he was being paid). And this brings up an interesting topic worthy of discussion at some point: is the core being paid fairly, despite their disappearing acts in the playoffs, while Rielly is being overpaid despite how he shows up in the playoffs; compared to the core’s very good regular seasons, and Rielly’s fair to sometimes good regular seasons? And yes, obviously, you would want both.

Your question is unclear. They're all being paid fairly, and none of them have "disappeared in the playoffs". They are consistently our best players in the playoffs.

The constant change has been adding players to surround the core. These past playoffs, I really thought Dubas had done a very good job of adding the right mix of players to surround the core, although he gave up a lot of draft picks in doing so. So not counting luck, what do you think was the main cause for this? Was it on the core, the supporting cast, the defence, goaltending?

Do you mean the main cause of the loss against Florida? Bobrovsky.
We could discuss things that we could have done better or differently on our side, and what we comparatively struggled against and why, but the main cause of our loss (just like Carolina's) is undeniably Bobrovsky. I'm not sure how to discuss the intricacies when there is such refusal to accept the base situation.

Some people see a loss and think there must be some massive inherent flaw or weakness in the team, but sometimes you just have a really strong, balanced team, and you lose. That's hockey.

There is no cap room to address the defence (I wonder why).

There is more than enough cap space available to have a good defense. We've had a good defense for years with less cap space.

It seems Nylander has priced himself out, so maybe Treliving can address this problem in trading Nylander, meaning that would create a little under $7 million of cap room. Now combine that with his talent, surely we could get a top 4 dman and a bottom 6 forward (someone capable of contributing offensively as well as PK). So which way would the Leafs be better off?

It doesn't look like Nylander has priced himself out at all, and Nylander helps us more than the alternative.

How long will it take for the cap to rise enough to be able to pay (Matthews and Marner for sure as it seems they will be getting raises AGAIN) this core what they feel they are “worthy” to be paid?

The cap doesn't have to be anything specific to pay Matthews and Marner what they deserve. What they deserve is a percentage of whatever the cap is.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Long story short, I don’t doubt that Matthews has the sincerity to want to win but I also distrust the culture that had been in place under the previous GM where winning was going to be inevitable, entitled and a matter of belief.

That was never the organizational culture. That was the fan culture.
Both management and players have acknowledged that that these opportunities are fleeting, and can't be taken for granted. That it will be hard and nothing is guaranteed.
What you seem to be mixing up is the idea of patience, in building up a team and having things translate to a cup. How things aren't always linear and immediate.
And confidence in themselves, which is important for any successful team.

 

[Mess]

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Those contracts really were so terrible. Would be nice if Matthews rectified that with this contract. Not holding my breath though.

Don't forget Matthews and Marner contracts both included 4 X RFA years the majority of their terms in those deals, where say a guy like Tavares was 7 years X UFA years and others sold off only UFA high priced years,

When John Tavaras signed his deal as UFA it set the new ceiling for UFA prices at $11 mil per on a 7 year term.. Auston Matthews only sold off 1 of his UFA years as the first 4 years of his current contract were RFA years ... Matthews at $11.634 mil AAV RFA rate >> Tavares $11 mil UFA rate.,

Dubas gave Leaf players UFA prices for RFA years because of the short terms. Term is the MOST important factor because on an 8 year team deal that consists 4 X RFA (cost contollable) years and 4 X UFA (expensive) years is that the average AAV divided by 8 years is vastly different then 5 because you're spreading the cost of the expensive 4 X UFA years over full term

 

[Dekes For Days]

Dubas gave Leaf players UFA prices for RFA years because of the short terms.

No, Dubas gave Leaf RFAs RFA prices for RFA years. You're just wrong about what RFA and UFA prices are, and how different types of contracts are formed.

 

[Mess]

Why wouldn’t marner ask for matthews money. He is comparable to matthews in every category and is our best all around player.

The disconnect for leaf fans is the marner nylander comparison. Nylander fans have always tried to pit the two against each other and try to belittle marner is many childish ways. And Vica versa with marner fans doing the same to nylander.

In my favourite scenario we traded matthews and kept marner nylander but we all know that’s not going to happen. I believe matthews cannot elevate his game in the playoffs. If you want to be called generational and be the highest paid player in the league you can’t disappear when the going gets tough. IMHO we won’t win a cup with matthews

vs.

Matthews won the Calder not Marner, and Matthews 2 X lead the entire NHL in goal scoring so far, and earned himself a Hart Trophy and Lindsay while a Franchise #1 center is >>> Winger.

Not comparable.

 

[DarkKnight]

Don't forget Matthews and Marner contracts both included 4 X RFA years the majority of their terms in those deals, where say a guy like Tavares was 7 years X UFA years and others sold off only UFA high priced years,

When John Tavaras signed his deal as UFA it set the new ceiling for UFA prices at $11 mil per on a 7 year term.. Auston Matthews only sold off 1 of his UFA years as the first 4 years of his current contract were RFA years ... Matthews at $11.634 mil AAV RFA rate >> Tavares $11 mil UFA rate.,

Dubas gave Leaf players UFA prices for RFA years because of the short terms. Term is the MOST important factor because on an 8 year team deal that consists 4 X RFA (cost contollable) years and 4 X UFA (expensive) years is that the average AAV divided by 8 years is vastly different then 5 because you're spreading the cost of the expensive 4 X UFA years over full term

People forget this with the Matthews and Marner deals, 34 only gave up one UFA year, 16 two. At the time as well, recall the cap was expected to rise, so Matthews was really maximizing his haul from the Leafs. People point to the Marner deal as pure greed, but Matthews is every bit as bad, more money and less term. Also signed first, he set the greed tone.

 

[Deebo]

I am amazed at how this thread can grow by pages a day when nothing has happened for weeks.

 

[Racer88]

I am amazed at how this thread can grow by pages a day when nothing has happened for weeks.

Yup and soon it will roll over to Sept 1st and crickets heading……..then Oct, then Nov. Etc etc

 

[notDatsyuk]

There isn’t a scenario where I would actively choose to move Matthews or lose him in free agency because I prioritized Nylander.

What if Matthews insisted on a two-year deal for $16 per, and Nylander was ok with $9 x 8?

 

[notDatsyuk]

Every star player approaching UFA status has leverage and sign or move on is the choice they all face

The team is also facing a choice - pay him or he will move on. If you blow your cap space overpaying other players and can't afford him unless it's for a discount then he will probably move on and get paid elsewhere but make no mistake, he will get paid. And if M&M won't give a discount, there's no reason whatsoever for anyone to expect Nylander to give one.

If the players are reasonable, there is cap space for all of them. If they all want every last dollar they can get, then that's probably not the case. I'm waiting for the captain to get off the pot and set the tone myself, sounds like maybe that's where Nylander's at as well.

Reportedly Matthews said he would sing a team friendly deal, and then Nylander said if Matty did, so would he.

 

[Captain Crunch]

I didn't say that I know what Dubas thought. I indicated that the individual I responded to should stop making assumptions about what Dubas thought, especially ones that directly contradict his words and actions. I'm not really sure how we benefit from misrepresenting Dubas and assassinating his character.

The point is that there is no "winning mixture".
We've been affected by "luck" in the regular season too, but "luck" impacts are going to naturally decrease with a bigger and more varied sample.

Your question is unclear. They're all being paid fairly, and none of them have "disappeared in the playoffs". They are consistently our best players in the playoffs.

Do you mean the main cause of the loss against Florida? Bobrovsky.
We could discuss things that we could have done better or differently on our side, and what we comparatively struggled against and why, but the main cause of our loss (just like Carolina's) is undeniably Bobrovsky. I'm not sure how to discuss the intricacies when there is such refusal to accept the base situation.

Some people see a loss and think there must be some massive inherent flaw or weakness in the team, but sometimes you just have a really strong, balanced team, and you lose. That's hockey.

There is more than enough cap space available to have a good defense. We've had a good defense for years with less cap space.

It doesn't look like Nylander has priced himself out at all, and Nylander helps us more than the alternative.

The cap doesn't have to be anything specific to pay Matthews and Marner what they deserve. What they deserve is a percentage of whatever the cap is.

That pretty much sums up how far out of reality you are. Please tell me where this money is available to improve the defence? Also, Nylander is asking for $10 million, when all his comparables put him around $9 million. Oh wait, you mean $10 million is what he “deserves”. SMH!!!

Mess summed it up best in showing how both Matthews and Marner screwed this organization over in both money and term. So for sake of argument, I guess the real blame goes to Shanahan, and ultimately to ownership. They are tied to these two, so there’s nothing we can do about it. So sad!

 

[Gary Nylund]

Reportedly Matthews said he would sing a team friendly deal, and then Nylander said if Matty did, so would he.

Did Matthews say that? If so that could be good news, depending of course on what his idea of a team friendly deal is. Call me jaded but if I had to guess, I'd say his idea of a team friendly deal might be 13.5 million for years.

 

[Stephen]

What if Matthews insisted on a two-year deal for $16 per, and Nylander was ok with $9 x 8?

No, probably not. With Matthews asking for a franchise breaking contract like that I think you just rebuild or just walk away from the core and hit free agency. I don’t see the value in dragging along for the next 8 years with Willie making centrepiece money without a franchise center.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

When does Matty fly into TO to start skating with da boys at Ford???????????????????????????????? .. maybe just me but aside from tax considerations about minimizing his time in Canada if he was sure about signing ya think he would be skating with da boys .. tells me something not right when he is MIA

 

[Madap]

I don’t think I’ve ever seen such a dramatic group of middle aged men. This fan base, I tell ya

 

[WTFMAN99]

No, probably not. With Matthews asking for a franchise breaking contract like that I think you just rebuild or just walk away from the core and hit free agency. I don’t see the value in dragging along for the next 8 years with Willie making centrepiece money without a franchise center.

I know Atlanta isn't exactly a model franchise but remember they offered him (edited: Kovalchuk) something stupid like 100M x X years, I forget exactly and he turned it down or wanted more and they basically said there was no way for them to put together a competitive team and moved on.

 

[Sypher04]

Amazing alright !!!

Someone in elementary school could have done a better job with just a simple understanding of RFA and UFA status and NHL comparables given this template. It was all laid out as a perfect roadmap..

Connor McDavid .. signs 8 years $100 mil total = $12.5 mil AAV
Auston Matthews = ........................................................................................ [Fill in the blank]
Jack Eichel ............. signs 8 years @ $80 mil total = $10.0 mil AAV

A elementary student could have come up with the basis for Auston contract by saying Matthews should fall between those 2 recently signed deals as guardrails comparables to help in amount and term, as I'm willing to make him the 2nd highest paid player in the NHL.

Therefore Auston Matthews signs for 8 years @ $90.0 mil total = $11.25 mil AAV and 14.25 C.H.%. (exact midpoint)

PS. The only little room for negotiating that Dubas could have been able to be played on was perhaps a slight bump up to $11.634 mil AAV per year up from $11.25 mil AAV over 8 years. It actually incomprehensible how an actual NHL GM could screw this up so badly.

Dubas screwed over this organization so badly that now we sit here listening to rumours that Auston wants 3-4 year deal at $13.5 mil when he should still have 4 full years left on his previous contract.

The problem with this line of math thinking is that Matthews’ ELC production rates put him much closer to McDavid’s numbers than it did Eichel’s. Also a year’s cap growth of 4.5M

The day Matthews signed his extension the equivalent contract to McDavid’s deal was 13.25M. Matthews signed for the better part of 2 million less than that, and was in fact nearly mid point between McDavid and Eichel in cap percentage. If he’d gone longer term, his percentage would have moved more toward McDavid, but never quite match his obviously

And haven’t we been told repeatedly that the Oilers offered McDavid something like 13.5M (18%) on his 8 year deal and he countered at 12.5M for the good of the team? If that’s as true as people claim, then his actual valuation by the Oilers was equivalent to 14.31M the day Matthew signed. This last bit is all what ifs though.

 

[Captain Crunch]

No, probably not. With Matthews asking for a franchise breaking contract like that I think you just rebuild or just walk away from the core and hit free agency. I don’t see the value in dragging along for the next 8 years with Willie making centrepiece money without a franchise center.

If only management hadn’t given up what could potentially be a top 5 first round pick in ‘26.

I don’t think I’ve ever seen such a dramatic group of middle aged men. This fan base, I tell ya

Then don’t bother coming here. Simple solution.

 

[Captain Crunch]

June was the time fir decisions when we could make a trade for AM. We screwed that. We know this crew will not win. Have the guts to give up the dream. The tail is wagging the fog, to restart I would give AM 3 yrs, WM 3 yrs at 10m and trade MM for great young dman if possible.

I totally agree, but the same leverage now also applies to Marner with his NMC.

Dumabass becomes GM with the 3 amigos on ELCs. Tre becomes GM a month+ before the 3 amigos NMCs kick in with virtually no time to move 16 or 34 if he even considered it.

The team is now f***ed, and will have to overpay the 3 losers all thanks to the brilliance of the last GM and his boss.

Yup, agree because Shanahan is still here.

 

[Niagara Bill]

I don’t think I’ve ever seen such a dramatic group of middle aged men. This fan base, I tell ya

And when was the last time you saw a Stanley in Toronto. And how many years do you have left to wait.
Dramatic is ridiculous claim. We gave 3 overpaid, demanding, selfish players who have trapped us in cap hell. We have management who have screwed it up and painted us into the corner.
Time for real action.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I don’t think I’ve ever seen such a dramatic group of middle aged men. This fan base, I tell ya

Go on, I'm listening.

 

[ToneDog]

And when was the last time you saw a Stanley in Toronto. And how many years do you have left to wait.
Dramatic is ridiculous claim. We gave 3 overpaid, demanding, selfish players who have trapped us in cap hell. We have management who have screwed it up and painted us into the corner.
Time for real action.

Imagine Yankee fans if they had not won a WS since 1967. What a dramatic group of middle aged men. LOL.