News Article: Auston Matthews - August 1st., Contract Crickets

[Stephen]

Matthews is actually softer than Thornton. Could you imagine being 6-3, 220 pounds and letting Steven Stamkos throw you around and humiliate you on home ice like an empty Dorito's bag? Sorry, awesome player, but the kid is softer than marshmallow. You say Matthews has "100 hits" yet none of them were memorable or significant.

Joe Thornton was a goof and not clutch, but wasn't actually soft. He was actually a bit of a snap show in his day. His reputation for being soft probably came about as a result of getting dummied by the LA Kings who ruled the yard in the Pacific Division and maybe by association with Tin Man Marleau.

 

[baton elevated]

He might very well be "worth" 13.5, but do you honestly believe a team can win the cup investing that much into a player who doesn't step up in the playoffs?

I doubt the Leafs can win a cup with this core 4. I'd like to be wrong kind of!!! I have waited 54 years to see it and would want a more likeable group than these entitled brats to win it.

 

[BrannigansLaw]

All of this "leadership" analysis is talking for the sake of talking. The reality is that a player is not considered a leader until he or she wins, at which point the player magically becomes a leader in the eyes of fans and the media. That really is it. To analyze it any deeper than that is silly. The same thing will happen here. The moment this Toronto lineup wins, and it will, Matthews will be praised for being a "leader".

Wrong. Some players just aren’t meant to be leaders.

I always considered Sundin and Roberts excellent leaders and they never won anything here. There was a reason he was called captain clutch.

 

[Martin Skoula]

He might very well be "worth" 13.5, but do you honestly believe a team can win the cup investing that much into a player who doesn't step up in the playoffs?

Florida went to the finals with 6 million in dead cap space lol, no difference between that and playoff ghost Barkov making 16 million this year instead.

 

[Boxscore]

Joe Thornton was a goof and not clutch, but wasn't actually soft. He was actually a bit of a snap show in his day. His reputation for being soft probably came about as a result of getting dummied by the LA Kings who ruled the yard in the Pacific Division and maybe by association with Tin Man Marleau.

Thornton wasn't Charmin soft, he was just softish for a mammoth his size. But he's like Derek Boogaard compared to Matthews.

 

[Stephen]

Thornton wasn't Charmin soft, he was just softish for a mammoth his size. But he's like Derek Boogaard compared to Matthews.

He was more of a goofball-loose cannon who wilted under pressure and got beat by tougher teams on a regular basis in his prime, but well within the norms of a bigger tougher player who could mix it up pre and post Dead Puck Era. Patrick Marleau was the real softie on the Sharks.

 

[Clark4Ever]

Well, Pastrnak signed last year for 11.75 x 8. And he just scored 61 goals and 113 points. MacKinnon signed for 12.6 x 8 and just scored 111 points in 71 games. The cap barely moved. These numbers, term, and % of cap should be the measuring stick for Matthews. He should fall between them, or at the absolute best, equal MacKinnon's 12.6 but it should be for 8 years like Nate. There's no other justification for paying Matthews 1.5 mil more than MacKinnon and for significantly less term. That's simply an unfair overpayment in both salary and term.

I don't disagree. I thought 12.5 would have been a fair compromise. 13.5 is not great, but it's not bad if the cap increases the next few years as expected.

The issue is that players and their agents are looking at the expected cap increases and if there is term involved in contract negotiations, they will argue that the AAV should be higher to compensate. I don't necessarily agree with it, but it's just the reality of dealing with certain players/agents.

It's either work something out or trade the player for maximum return.

 

[leafsfan5]

Give him his money on a 5 yr deal but don't give him a NVM or no trade. Leafs give him the money he wants but he has to give the leafs something too.

He has to give us nothing, that's the problem. We walked him into UFA at the earliest possible opportunity. There is no leverage here and the most we can do is hope he chooses to make concessions, which he does not appear to want to do

Dubas completely f***ed the team with the deals he gave Matthews/Marner and we're feeling it 5 years later

 

[Boxscore]

Patrick Marleau was the real softie on the Sharks.

Marleau was the exact type of player that Matthews and Dougie Hamilton are in terms of being soft. They are sweet, ho-hum guys who lack killer instinct and are content with losing. I'd include Marner in this group as well, but in his defense he's about the size of a Sprite can and has a physique like Amanda Bynes in Lovewrecked.

 

[tuckerintensity]

Sure, and his day to day living expenses in a Canadian city will vary relative to the other 31 teams in the league. Cheaper than some cities, more expensive than others...

And in summary, why do I care? We are already paying the most expensive contract in the league. I'm not here cheering on his career earnings totals.

Then one would wonder why you're worried about the CAD equivalent then.

But so far with Matthews, these deals have been 100% one-sided in his favor.

They haven't been, actually. You just don't like them.

He might very well be "worth" 13.5, but do you honestly believe a team can win the cup investing that much into a player who doesn't step up in the playoffs?

Do I believe a team can win by paying a Hart, Lindsay, and Rocket winner less than market value? Yes, I do.

Him not bringing it in the playoffs is just a made up narrative designed to direct the conversation away from the obvious, 13.5 AAV isn't a bad deal for Toronto and is most certainly less than what would be available to him if he walked himself to free agency next year.

 

[Evilhomer]

Wins what? The cup?

So every player that never won a cup was never a leader?

How often do you hear fans talk about Dale Hawerchuk's leadership? Or Peter Stastny's leadership? Steve Yzerman was vilified as being nothing more than a fancy points guy who could never win, and then he was surrounded by a bunch of hall of fame players and suddenly he became...a leader. It's all simply stories made up to create a theme because we love to categorize and label, and then ultimately rationalize an outcome.

Military victors are considered great leaders. Those who are defeated, meanwhile, are almost never held up as great leaders, but nothing is ever that black and white. Was Patton better able to inspire his men than Mussolini? I doubt it. It's simply that one guy won, and the other guy lost, so history deems the winner to be a great leader.

That doesn't even account for more nefarious things like predispositions to certain races, ethnicities or genders. Jonathan Toews is held up as the ultimate leader of men, yet on his watch, and quite likely to his knowledge, one of those men was repeatedly taken advantage of without repercussion. Notwithstanding this, Toews' "leadership" qualities don't seem to have taken much of a hit. Meanwhile, Sergei Federov is one of the best players to ever play in the NHL, yet all we ever hear about in Canada when it comes to leadership is Steve Yzerman. It's not hard to understand why.

Auston Matthews hanging out with Justin Bieber in July at worst makes him a terrible judge of music. It doesn't, however, speak to his ability to win a Stanley Cup or his ability to motivate those around him (which presumably is the primary marker of leadership). If he signed a contract on July 1 for 8 years at $8 million per season, every Leafs fan in the world would fawn over him as a great leader, a man who sacrificed "me" for "we". It's all nonsense. Toronto, like any sports team, will win because at some point the collection of players, and the convergence of completely unpredictable circumstances, will produce an outcome. Sam Lafferty won't score an overtime winning goal in a Stanley Cup final game because Austen Matthews is a great leader or a terrible leader. It will be because over a large sample size the athletes who perform the best as a group, and who get the most luck, brought the team to the point where Sam Lafferty is put in a position to get a lucky bounce and a goal.

 

[andora]

So if 13.5 comes down it looks like i was close with a 13.4 guess based on the primary point production versus average

Not whether i like it or not but this rate puts him right around average pay for primary point production through his second contract with his comparables of the cap era

 

[baton elevated]

He has to give us nothing, that's the problem. We walked him into UFA at the earliest possible opportunity. There is no leverage here and the most we can do is hope he chooses to make concessions, which he does not appear to want to do

Dubas completely f***ed the team with the deals he gave Matthews/Marner and we're feeling it 5 years later

Maybe, but in the end he and his agent will go after that 8 yr payola. Hope it's with another team

 

[Boxscore]

They haven't been, actually. You just don't like them.

Explain how Matthews deals have been mutually beneficial? His last deal was almost max money for short-term. His new deal is rumored to be the same situation. Most superstars commit to 8-year deals so their pricy deal becomes "team friendly" in 3-4 years as the cap rises. Matthews eliminates this concession from the equation by signing for high dollars + short-term so he can keep maximizing his cap %. This prohibits the Leafs from rising their heads above water with him. Nothing about Matthews deals have been team-friendly lol.

 

[PromisedLand]

Mack's contract is a huge discount according to him though, you have to remember he told the media that, so in reality, he is probably closer to 15 million if he took full value........ 13.5 for Matthews seems fair now

This team isn't a shitshow run by dubas anymore. This is not fair for 4 years whatsoever.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

He was more of a goofball-loose cannon who wilted under pressure and got beat by tougher teams on a regular basis in his prime, but well within the norms of a bigger tougher player who could mix it up pre and post Dead Puck Era. Patrick Marleau was the real softie on the Sharks.

Excuse me...but how are you going to have a record consecutive games streak by actually playing hard?

 

[ACC1224]

Excuse me...but how are you going to have a record consecutive games streak by actually playing hard?

Thought that was Kessels streak?

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

Explain how Matthews deals have been mutually beneficial? His last deal was almost max money for short-term. His new deal is rumored to be the same situation. Most superstars commit to 8-year deals so their pricy deal becomes "team friendly" in 3-4 years as the cap rises. Matthews eliminates this concession from the equation by signing for high dollars + short-term so he can keep maximizing his cap %. This prohibits the Leafs from rising their heads above water with him. Nothing about Matthews deals have been team-friendly lol.

The whole cap percentage thing gets out of whack when the players want to maintain that percentage all the way through the deal as it rises by wanting a super big percentage to accommodate for the inflating cap. It seems that on other teams...they give a good deal to a player who eventually becomes a great deal for the team near the end. That works in other places...not Toronto because our guys have to get the good deal the whole way through and never give anything back in a sense. That is the part that irks me the most. There is no give and take...just take.

Thought that was Kessels streak?

Well, it may very well be...but Kessel is known for avoiding corners and hitting...so they are 2 sides of the same coin. Same principle applies to Patty Cakes.

 

[Evilhomer]

Wrong. Some players just aren’t meant to be leaders.

I always considered Sundin and Roberts excellent leaders and they never won anything here. There was a reason he was called captain clutch.

The real issue is that Toronto fans have their impression of what a leader looks like. It looks like Doug Gilmour, Gary Roberts, Tie Domi, Borje Salming, etc. If Austen Matthews grew a big beard in April and didn't have his front teeth, instead of the goofy moustache and clothing he sports, Toronto fans would love him. As others have said, the moment Toronto wins the Cup, Matthews will be held up as the greatest leader in the history of the Leafs.

 

[Boxscore]

How often do you hear fans talk about Dale Hawerchuk's leadership? Or Peter Stastny's leadership? Steve Yzerman was vilified as being nothing more than a fancy points guy who could never win, and then he was surrounded by a bunch of hall of fame players and suddenly he became...a leader. It's all simply stories made up to create a theme because we love to categorize and label, and then ultimately rationalize an outcome.

Military victors are considered great leaders. Those who are defeated, meanwhile, are almost never held up as great leaders, but nothing is ever that black and white. Was Patton better able to inspire his men than Mussolini? I doubt it. It's simply that one guy won, and the other guy lost, so history deems the winner to be a great leader.

That doesn't even account for more nefarious things like predispositions to certain races, ethnicities or genders. Jonathan Toews is held up as the ultimate leader of men, yet on his watch, and quite likely to his knowledge, one of those men was repeatedly taken advantage of without repercussion. Notwithstanding this, Toews' "leadership" qualities don't seem to have taken much of a hit. Meanwhile, Sergei Federov is one of the best players to ever play in the NHL, yet all we ever hear about in Canada when it comes to leadership is Steve Yzerman. It's not hard to understand why.

Auston Matthews hanging out with Justin Bieber in July at worst makes him a terrible judge of music. It doesn't, however, speak to his ability to win a Stanley Cup or his ability to motivate those around him (which presumably is the primary marker of leadership). If he signed a contract on July 1 for 8 years at $8 million per season, every Leafs fan in the world would fawn over him as a great leader, a man who sacrificed "me" for "we". It's all nonsense. Toronto, like any sports team, will win because at some point the collection of players, and the convergence of completely unpredictable circumstances, will produce an outcome. Sam Lafferty won't score an overtime winning goal in a Stanley Cup final game because Austen Matthews is a great leader or a terrible leader. It will be because over a large sample size the athletes who perform the best as a group, and who get the most luck, brought the team to the point where Sam Lafferty is put in a position to get a lucky bounce and a goal.

Good post tbh. But a couple of things...

1. Fedorov -- amazing, gifted, world class player. He also had a penchant for milking injuries until during a playoff game, he went back to the trainers room and pulled himself from the game, and Konstantinov marched back there and in their native tongue absolutely scolded him and demanded he play. Fedorov played and to his credit played extremely well. Like I said before, not every superstar is a leader. But the Wings were saturated with leaders and warriors during that Era -- Yzerman, Lidstrom, Shanahan, McCarty, Fetisov, Draper, Maltby, Konstantinov, et al.

2. The Matthews and Bieber thing -- it was just an awful look by a kid who seems like his priorities are out of whack. The Leafs were upset in the playoffs, yet again, and the next time we see Matthews, he's living his best life with Bieber while Leafs Nation is still in mourning. Not a care in the world. The following summer, we hear about him (and other teammates) campaigning to have the team dress code laxed. Really? That's what these guys are focused on? Meanwhile, Nate MacKinnon is challenging his teammates to take their diets and conditioning seriously. Sidney Crosby is firing 1,000 pucks a day over one summer and working on his face-offs daily the next. MacKinnon and Crosby are focused, driven, no nonsense competitors. Both are leaders. Matthews simply isn't. The perception Matthews is creating for himself is one of an entitled celebrity. You wanna party it up with Bieber after a tough playoff loss, grow a silly mustache, wear odd outfits and carry a purse? Fine. But then return the following year and make a crazy Cup run.

 

[notbias]

This team isn't a shitshow run by dubas anymore. This is not fair for 4 years whatsoever.

Yes, it is run by Treliving, he is known for signing good contracts, we are in good hands now.

 

[JKG33]

Do I believe a team can win by paying a Hart, Lindsay, and Rocket winner less than market value? Yes, I do.

Him not bringing it in the playoffs is just a made up narrative designed to direct the conversation away from the obvious, 13.5 AAV isn't a bad deal for Toronto and is most certainly less than what would be available to him if he walked himself to free agency next year.

But do you believe a team can win by paying a selfish, money hungry, nonchalant player that cares more about not wearing suits to games than does about actually winning them more than he's worth?

Its not a made up narrative at all. For his career he's under a PPG in the playoffs. Thats simply unacceptable for a player that's demanded to be a top 5 highest paid player in the league his whole career.

Lets say you believe him and the rest of the core 4 have been playing up to their worth in the playoffs. Then why has this team only won a single playoff round in 7 years? If these players are so great, where are the results? And don't say because of (insert opponents goalie here). I've been saying for years a team this "good" should've at least won a round through dumb luck by now and it finally happened, and then the dumb luck went away quicker than it arrived.

He very well could get more money as a UFA, and I'd love to see it happen. That means one less team thats going to be competitive for a cup.

 

[Evilhomer]

Good post tbh. But a couple of things...

1. Fedorov -- amazing, gifted, world class player. He also had a penchant for milking injuries until during a playoff game, he went back to the trainers room and pulled himself from the game, and Konstantinov marched back there and in their native tongue absolutely scolded him and demanded he play. Fedorov played and to his credit played extremely well. Like I said before, not every superstar is a leader. But the Wings were saturated with leaders and warriors during that Era -- Yzerman, Lidstrom, Shanahan, McCarty, Fetisov, Draper, Maltby, Konstantinov, et al.

2. The Matthews and Bieber thing -- it was just an awful look by a kid who seems like his priorities are out of whack. The Leafs were upset in the playoffs, yet again, and the next time we see Matthews, he's living his best life with Bieber while Leafs Nation is still in mourning. Not a care in the world. The following summer, we hear about him (and other teammates) campaigning to have the team dress code laxed. Really? That's what these guys are focused on? Meanwhile, Nate MacKinnon is challenging his teammates to take their diets and conditioning seriously. Sidney Crosby is firing 1,000 pucks a day over one summer and working on his face-offs daily the next. MacKinnon and Crosby are focused, driven, no nonsense competitors. Both are leaders. Matthews simply isn't. The perception Matthews is creating for himself is one of an entitled celebrity. You wanna party it up with Bieber after a tough playoff loss, grow a silly mustache, wear odd outfits and carry a purse? Fine. But then return the following year and make a crazy Cup run.

I get the criticism of the way Matthews looks and the way he carries himself. I am straight, white, 50 year old man with grey hair in a position of perceived power by virtue of my profession. I am the thing that everyone in society is now taught to hate. I think the porn star moustache and man purse look ridiculous. But I also know that a person isn't defined, and can't be judged, by what he, she (sigh...or "they") looks like. The truth is that leadership isn't defined by an individual's actual traits, behaviour or characteristics. Whether sports, war, business or anything else, it's defined by who wins. The world doesn't celebrate the leadership qualities of a loser. It's just the way it is.

 

[Stephen]

Then one would wonder why you're worried about the CAD equivalent then.

I'm not worried about the CAD equivalent, I'm saying we can't take every accounting, taxation, net income, personal expenses into consideration for Auston Matthews when we're already ready to pay the guy the biggest contract in the league. Some things will not be to his advantage in Toronto, but most markets won't give him the Toronto advantage either. So at some point you just have to get back to hockey.

 

[JKG33]

Here's something to think about. Since 2015-16 when Toews and Kane's contracts kicked in, there has been a total of 17 players to have an AAV of $10m or more. Of those 17 players, only one has won a cup while signed to that contract, and it just happened this year. Jack Eichel. It took 8 seasons for a team to win a cup with that kind of cap hit on their roster.

If you want to expand it to $9.5m AAV, that list includes 30 players. Only 5 have won the cup on that contract. Eichel, Stone, Ovechkin, Kucherov, Vasilevskiy.

Now I ask again, does Matthews seem like the type of playoff performer who can fit on that list? And even more unlikely, that'd mean the Leafs are winning the cup with 3-4 players on that list.

If given the choice between Matthews at $13-14m, or 2-3 other good players making in the $4-7m range, I'm taking the depth. Those are the teams that win cups.