News Article: Auston Matthews - August 1st., Contract Crickets

[Racer88]

People making claims that he's not a leader are not only bringing absolutely nothing to support that position, but are also contradicting everybody that would actually know.

"Auston has really transformed into a leader in this locker room,” Spezza said. “His daily habits have always been exceptional, but he’s having conversations with guys away from the group, he’s having conversations at the right time in the dressing room.

“He has pushed us at times to be better. He has a great mind for the game and we’re starting to see it now in the room.

“And he also knows when maybe it just wasn’t (going on a certain night) and you have to move on quickly. It’s good to have a fresh take on things sometimes and he’s been able to give that.”

Leafs coach Sheldon Keefe has taken note of the change in Matthews.

“We’ve seen him stepping up vocally, whether it’s talking to the team on the bench or in the dressing room, or pulling guys aside and communicating with them,” Keefe said. “Whether it’s encouragement or correction, or just strategizing, he’s taking a lot more initiative.

“We’ve talked about that evolution in his leadership, but he’s taken a lot of it on himself, knowing that’s a big part of being a great player, is to lead the way and make others better and set the standard and have a level of accountability."

There are multiple different ways to lead effectively, you don't see the majority of leadership that happens, and winning the cup is about way, way more than the leadership of one individual. Messier didn't will his teams to win. Mackinnon hasn't demonstrated any leadership qualities beyond Matthews. That's not why they won.
In fact, Mackinnon's leadership is the most questionable, considering the stories about him and how he treats his teammates.

People that are making the claim he is a great leader are making those claims with absolutely nothing to support those claims. If Keefe says that he is a great leader, take it with a grain of salt as we already know Keefe had to publicly walk back his comments the first time he criticized them. If Spezza is your second witness he bailed on the team the first chance he got following his lord and master to Pittsburg. So nothing he say has any weight
So unless you are secretly working for the leafs I find your case wanting

 

[Racer88]

Real leaders don’t embarrassingly smile while getting rag dolled by Stamkos. A real leader would show his team that you have to stand up and be counted once in a while.

 

[Dekes For Days]

People that are making the claim he is a great leader are making those claims with absolutely nothing to support those claims.

Except that's not true. Everybody that would know about Matthews' leadership speaks highly of him as a leader.

 

[Racer88]

Except that's not true. Everybody that would know about Matthews' leadership speaks highly of him as a leader.

So you are connected to the inner circle of the Leafs.
Good to know

 

[Dekes For Days]

So you are connected to the inner circle of the Leafs.

You don't need to be connected to the inner circle of the Leafs to listen to what the people who know about Matthews' leadership say.

 

[Nineteen67]

Paying maybe a top 5 player in the league
The highest cap hit is exactly why the leafs wont win a cup with this guy.
Should have traded him when they had the chance

And for those who ask my top five
Mcdavid
Mackinnon
Draisitel
Pasternak
Makar

Im curious to see

The difference being Mario (with a bad back) was 10x the player Matthews is when healthy. Mario fought cancer and returned the same season to mop the ice with the rest of the league, scoring at Gretzkys 215 point pace. Mario was also a playoff demigod whereas Matthews comes up small. I do agree that Matthews has some "Lemieux" in him where he would rather be left alone to perform -- remember Mario's "garage league" diatribe? But, when Mario got angry, he would put a team through the shredder by himself. When Matthews gets angry, Steven Stamkos ragdolls him around the ice like a sack of potatoes.

I have to be honest -- "leadership" is one of the qualities completely missing from Matthews game. He has zero hatred of losing. He doesn't fire up his team. He doesn't take less money for the betterment of the team. He doesn't play angry when it's needed. He doesn't produce at a high level when the chips are down. He's the exact opposite of what a leader is. He spends his offseasons following Bieber around, wearing Disney clothes, and complaining about the team dress code. Who or what is he leading exactly? The Leafs have won 1 playoff round in 7 years with him "leading" the team.

Matthews a great leader?

This post belongs in the HoF.

 

[IPS]

You don't need to be connected to the inner circle of the Leafs to listen to what the people who know about Matthews' leadership say.

You still don't see the irony. You're still using evidence for your point that's no more valid than the countering points. Yet you just want to believe your word magically holds more weight than others'. It's hilarious and delusional.

 

[Dekes For Days]

You're still using evidence for your point that's no more valid than the countering points.

That's incorrect.
The evidence for my position is what literally everybody who is around Matthews and would know him as a leader has said about his leadership.
The evidence for the contrasting position is absolutely nothing. Random, unsubstantiated claims on an internet message board from people who don't know.

 

[Nineteen67]

Real leaders don’t embarrassingly smile while getting rag dolled by Stamkos. A real leader would show his team that you have to stand up and be counted once in a while.

very rarely, if ever, do we hear people raving about Matthews leadership. I think he prefers to be in the background which is absolutely fine, and why I think it’s important for the Leafs to bring in real leaders. Johnny Monotone isn’t what I’m talking about.

 

[Stephen]

The way the Leafs growing pains have been covered in the media, by quotes from players and talking points from the previous GM my feeling is the Leafs core players leadership assumes the following:

A) Winning is inevitable and do it enough times talent wins out.

B) Keep an even keeled mentality. Don’t get too high and too down. From the outside looking in, it looks like they think the issue has traditionally been stage fright in big moments.

 

[Boxscore]

Except that's not true. Everybody that would know about Matthews' leadership speaks highly of him as a leader.

This is an abstract statement that not only lacks specificity, it also goes against everything we see with our own eyes as well as documented lack of playoff success. We've seen real leaders in Toronto -- Armstrong, Salming, Sittler, Clarke, Gilmour, Sundin. I'm sorry but Auston Matthews is certainly not one of them. He is an extremely talented goal scorer but he's not a good leader of men.

 

[Boxscore]

The way the Leafs growing pains have been covered in the media, by quotes from players and talking points from the previous GM my feeling is the Leafs core players leadership assumes the following:

A) Winning is inevitable and do it enough times talent wins out.

B) Keep an even keeled mentality. Don’t get too high and too down. From the outside looking in, it looks like they think the issue has traditionally been stage fright in big moments.

Almost as if the leadership and core still struggle with entitlement issues. "We're so good we just have to win. Our day is coming." Assuming something is worked out with Nylander and Matthews, the Leafs are in a great position heading into next season with this group:

1. New GM with a slightly revised vision
2. Core remains
3. PP and depth defenseman added with Klingberg
4. Heart, sandpaper, toughness, and intensity added with Bertuzzi, Domi, and Reaves
5. Samsonov re-upped and more comfortable with expectations

Imho, this is the last kick at the can for these guys. If they disappoint with these additions, then everything should be on the table next summer.

 

[Dekes For Days]

This is an abstract statement that not only lacks specificity, it also goes against everything we see with our own eyes as well as documented lack of playoff success.

It's a pretty straightforward statement. Everybody that has been around Matthews and spoken on his leadership has spoken highly of him as a leader. I provided some quotes earlier in the thread. The extent of leadership that fans see with their own eyes is extremely limited, but we've also absolutely seen him be a leader. Unfortunately, some people only accept certain kinds of leadership as valid, and incorrectly equate team playoff series outcomes to the leadership of an individual.

 

[Boxscore]

It's a pretty straightforward statement. Everybody that has been around Matthews and spoken on his leadership has spoken highly of him as a leader. I provided some quotes earlier in the thread. The extent of leadership that fans see with their own eyes is extremely limited, but we've also absolutely seen him be a leader. Unfortunately, some people only accept certain kinds of leadership as valid, and incorrectly equate team playoff series outcomes to the leadership of an individual.

But you didn't. You supplied a couple of cheerleader quotes from internal suits who are blowing smoke. Spezza? Part of the knock on him as a player in Ottawa was that he was soft and lacked leadership qualities that Alfredsson possessed.

The proof is in the pudding -- Matthews body language, interviews, lack of intensity, apparent greed, inability to rally his troops, and his lackluster performances in the playoffs, are what defines his leadership, not some hair tussling quotes by Keefe or Spezza.

Under Matthews "leadership" we won 1 playoff round in 7 years -- on a team max capped with other star players. This is not young Yzerman being a lone star on a decrepit Wings team here. And, as others have stated, if Matthews was such a leader, why have the Leafs been on a mission to bring in ex-captains, leaders, and rah-rah guys throughout his tenure? I mean, the Leafs signed another poor leader in Tavares and he was given the C over Matthews. Do you think if the Pens signed Tavares he would have been given the C over a young Crosby? Not a chance in hell lol.

 

[Ziggdiezan]

It's a pretty straightforward statement. Everybody that has been around Matthews and spoken on his leadership has spoken highly of him as a leader. I provided some quotes earlier in the thread. The extent of leadership that fans see with their own eyes is extremely limited, but we've also absolutely seen him be a leader. Unfortunately, some people only accept certain kinds of leadership as valid, and incorrectly equate team playoff series outcomes to the leadership of an individual.

The leafs 2nd pairing + 3rd pairing + 3rd line + 4th line are going to make ~19 million dollars this year (I.e. 10 players)

Matthews makes ~12 million by himself...

The teams playoff series outcomes are 100% heavily tied to Matthews performances considering he makes as much as like half the team combined.... to be honest I don't really care about leadership as long as in the playoffs he is scoring goals/points at a pace to be top 3 in the league

 

[ACC1224]

One thing I'm sure everyone can agree on is whether he is a good leader in the room or not, Matthews isn't the kind of guy who you'd follow into battle.
He's definitely not the guy who's going to drag you into battle.

 

[Stephen]

Real leaders don’t embarrassingly smile while getting rag dolled by Stamkos. A real leader would show his team that you have to stand up and be counted once in a while.

All due respect to Stamkos but he picked on Matthews as a soft target to engineer favorable special teams for his team.

Leadership aside, with the size advantage Matthews possesses, he should have beat the wheels off of Stamkos just for trying that garbage. That was his Marchand-Sedin moment.

 

[Arzak]

Drai and Pasta are both pretty bad defensively but if you’re talking strictly offensive then you’re probably not far off .

This is the narrative on this board to better cope with reality, but the guy is +120 in his career (someone known for feasting on PP). Yes it's an imperfect stat but it's way better than judging a guy with the most GWs in a season in decades based on giveaways and calling him bad defensively.

Pasta doing well defensively, there is just no need to send him on PK. You need a bit of speed to do well on PK, that's it, perfect for speedy non-scoring wingers.

It was Pasta benefiting from Bergy and Marchand inflating his numbers. After that, it was Pasta inflating his numbers on top PP . He got most of his goals 5v5 last year, but the metric changed again !

He got 61 goals 113 points while being +34 playing with Krejci and Zacha.

+31 Auston is considered a defensive wizard around here.

Now share 5v5 per 60 un-expected chances above average ! Since +- is garbage stat and we know Pasta is bad defensively ...

 

[Aashir]

One thing I'm sure everyone can agree on is whether he is a good leader in the room or not, Matthews isn't the kind of guy who you'd follow into battle.
He's definitely not the guy who's going to drag you into battle.

Agreed, so many instances of him having the chance to light a spark or just give a damn but it just seems like he isn’t one of those guys

Last year Bennett ran McCabe I think at the end of the game, he did nothing and let others go at it
Konecny tried to start something, he let Giordano do his work
Stamkos beat the brakes off him because he was more concerned with picking up sticks
Couple years ago he got dummied by Dubois
Chariot cross checking him and him just laughing was also another time

This isn’t the actions a guy who wants to take his teammates into the trenches with him, this looks like a guy who’d much rather stand outside watching his peers do the dirty work

 

[Dekes For Days]

You supplied a couple of cheerleader quotes from internal suits who are blowing smoke.

You can arbitrarily dismiss the players and coaches that surround him and what they think if you want, but it doesn't change the fact that their statements hold much more weight than what some random guy on an internet message board has concluded based on his personal perception of their "body language" and the playoff outcomes their team has had.

The proof is in the pudding -- Matthews body language, interviews, lack of intensity, apparent greed, inability to rally his troops, and his lackluster performances in the playoffs, are what defines his leadership

There's nothing about his body language, interviews, intensity, rally ability, playoff performances, or desire to be paid appropriately that indicate bad leadership.

And, as others have stated, if Matthews was such a leader, why have the Leafs been on a mission to bring in ex-captains, leaders, and rah-rah guys throughout his tenure?

Teams like as many leaders and high character individuals as possible, especially when most of their core is in the first half of their 20s. That doesn't indicate anything bad about any particular individual's leadership progression. Most of those guys we brought in like that were also either some of the best player upgrades available at the deadline, or the players that were willing to come play here at a league minimum discount, and were only here for a limited time. We've also signed and brought in a lot of player that are not considered leaders at all.

I mean, the Leafs signed another poor leader in Tavares and he was given the C over Matthews.

Calling a career captain a poor leader is pretty hilarious, and essentially shows that you just refuse to accept leadership unless it comes in the specific publicly consumable form you want, with an abundance of team playoff success.

 

[Dekes For Days]

This is the narrative on this board to better cope with reality, but the guy is +120 in his career (someone known for feasting on PP).

He has a high plus minus because he has spent the majority of his career on a superline on a consistent contender, playing primarily with the best defensive center of a generation, one of the best defensive wingers in the league, one of the best defenseman in the league, and an elite goalie, not because he is individually good defensively.

 

[Racer88]

You don't need to be connected to the inner circle of the Leafs to listen to what the people who know about Matthews' leadership say.

We all see his zero leadership on the ice. The only player on the team with less on ice leadership is Tavares

 

[Racer88]

All due respect to Stamkos but he picked on Matthews as a soft target to engineer favorable special teams for his team.

Leadership aside, with the size advantage Matthews possesses, he should have beat the wheels off of Stamkos just for trying that garbage. That was his Marchand-Sedin moment.

That would have been true leadership

You can arbitrarily dismiss the players and coaches that surround him and what they think if you want, but it doesn't change the fact that their statements hold much more weight than what some random guy on an internet message board has concluded based on his personal perception of their "body language" and the playoff outcomes their team has had.

There's nothing about his body language, interviews, intensity, rally ability, playoff performances, or desire to be paid appropriately that indicate bad leadership.

Teams like as many leaders and high character individuals as possible, especially when most of their core is in the first half of their 20s. That doesn't indicate anything bad about any particular individual's leadership progression. Most of those guys we brought in like that were also either some of the best player upgrades available at the deadline, or the players that were willing to come play here at a league minimum discount, and were only here for a limited time. We've also signed and brought in a lot of player that are not considered leaders at all.

Calling a career captain a poor leader is pretty hilarious, and essentially shows that you just refuse to accept leadership unless it comes in the specific publicly consumable form you want, with an abundance of team playoff success.

You do realize that you are also a random guy on the internet……..right

 

[Boxscore]

All due respect to Stamkos but he picked on Matthews as a soft target

Yes, because Matthews is soft and has no fire, despite his 6-3, 220 pound frame. Could you imagine Stamkos trying to ragdoll Crosby, Toews, Giroux, McDavid, etc. like that with no pushback? Wouldn't happen. And they're a lot smaller than Matthews.

 

[Dekes For Days]

We all see his zero leadership on the ice. The only player on the team with less on ice leadership is Tavares

If you're seeing bad leadership on the ice from him, then it's because you're choosing to see that, not because he's actually being a bad leader. No, a career captain and an assistant captain that have both consistently had their leadership praised are not bad leaders.

You do realize that you are also a random guy on the internet……..right

Yep, but his surrounding players and coaches - the ones actually making the statements - are not.