News Article: Auston Matthews - August 1st., Contract Crickets

[Boxscore]

You can arbitrarily dismiss the players and coaches that surround him and what they think if you want, but it doesn't change the fact that their statements hold much more weight than what some random guy on an internet message board has concluded based on his personal perception of their "body language" and the playoff outcomes their team has had.

There's nothing about his body language, interviews, intensity, rally ability, playoff performances, or desire to be paid appropriately that indicate bad leadership.

Teams like as many leaders and high character individuals as possible, especially when most of their core is in the first half of their 20s. That doesn't indicate anything bad about any particular individual's leadership progression. Most of those guys we brought in like that were also either some of the best player upgrades available at the deadline, or the players that were willing to come play here at a league minimum discount, and were only here for a limited time. We've also signed and brought in a lot of player that are not considered leaders at all.

Calling a career captain a poor leader is pretty hilarious, and essentially shows that you just refuse to accept leadership unless it comes in the specific publicly consumable form you want, with an abundance of team playoff success.

Again, you're basically telling people to listen to a Spezza quote and ignore their own eyes, Matthews public behavior, and lack of playoff success. It's not going to happen. We've all watched Sundin, Gilmour, Clark. And we've watched Matthews. We can recognize good leaders from poor ones.

 

[Boxscore]

If you're seeing bad leadership on the ice from him, then it's because you're choosing to see that, not because he's actually being a bad leader.

If you see the ground and your parked car are soaking wet, you're choosing to believe it rained, but you're wrong because your friend in an office building without windows just texted you and said it didn't. This is the logic you are asking us to subscribe to.

 

[Stephen]

Again, you're basically telling people to listen to a Spezza quote and ignore their own eyes, Matthews public behavior, and lack of playoff success. It's not going to happen. We've all watched Sundin, Gilmour, Clark. And we've watched Matthews. We can recognize good leaders from poor ones.

We also have to remember Jason Spezza was never much of a leader himself in the grand tradition of the game.

He got a lot more mature in his later years and earned some respect as an older Leaf but “Giggles” was seen as a guy who got by on natural talent who maybe didn’t put in the work earlier in his career. His whole messaging to the young guys was not letting opportunities slip. Also he was a raging playoff underachiever from the Jacques Martin era.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Again, you're basically telling people to listen to a Spezza quote and ignore their own eyes, Matthews public behavior, and lack of playoff success.

No, I'm suggesting that people should listen to the people who would actually know about the leadership of somebody when making claims about the leadership of somebody, instead of ignoring their surrounding players and coaches and concluding the opposite based on nothing but incorrectly perceived or irrelevant things.

If you see the ground and your parked car are soaking wet, you're choosing to believe it rained, but you're wrong because your friend in an office building without windows just texted you and said it didn't. This is the logic you are asking us to subscribe to.

If you get to your parked car and it's wet, and there wasn't supposed to be any rain, and you realize you're parked next to a sprinkler, and everybody around you that actually saw your car get wet told you that the sprinkler made it wet, you should believe that the sprinkler made it wet, instead of thinking that everybody is lying and it actually rained. That's the logic I'm subscribing to.

 

[Boxscore]

We also have to remember Jason Spezza was never much of a leader himself in the grand tradition of the game.

He got a lot more mature in his later years and earned some respect as an older Leaf but “Giggles” was seen as a guy who got by on natural talent who maybe didn’t put in the work earlier in his career. His whole messaging to the young guys was not letting opportunities slip. Also he was a raging playoff underachiever from the Jacques Martin era.

Exactly right. And when his buddy was canned, he took his ball and ran. That tells you everything you need to know about Spezzas leadership, DNA, and fortitude to face a challenge head on.

The excuses for Matthews (and the rest of the core) absolutely need to stop immediately. This kid is a very nice player with some super paws but a leader he is not. He also needs to stop being greedy and start getting angry with losing. He's been paid top dollar, has received everything he's asked for, has been surrounded with other high-end talent, and he still has 1 playoff win and a bucket of disappointing losses to show for it. In terms of him doing his part to lead, his PPG dips to 0.88 in the playoffs. That's not leading to anything except early golf times.

The organization, media, city, and fans have all treated Matthews like royalty. It's time for him to do his part. And it begins with not looking to milk every penny out of the Leafs on a short-term deal that primarily suits him and not the team.

 

[Boxscore]

If you get to your parked car and it's wet, and there wasn't supposed to be any rain, and you realize you're parked next to a sprinkler, and everybody around you that actually saw your car get wet told you that the sprinkler made it wet, you should believe that the sprinkler made it wet, instead of thinking that everybody is lying and it actually rained. That's the logic I'm subscribing to.

Until I used my brain and realized a 5 mile radius was soaking wet and a sprinkler couldn't possibly do it.

 

[notdoneyet]

The only thing matthews is a leader in is being a diva and modelling his man purse.

We will not win a cup with him on our team. He doesn’t have the passion and drive to carry us on his back into battle.

He wants to be the highest paid to stroke his ego but he is what he is. He is a good goal scorer period. Not the generational talent that some people here believe.

Should have traded him before he held us hostage again. There is nothing that screams team with this guy. Selfish to the core with a sense of entitlement

 

[Racer88]

If you're seeing bad leadership on the ice from him, then it's because you're choosing to see that, not because he's actually being a bad leader. No, a career captain and an assistant captain that have both consistently had their leadership praised are not bad leaders.

Yep, but his surrounding players and coaches - the ones actually making the statements - are not.

First off Those people listed are not going to say anything against him as it would be a major scandel.
Secondly we cannot take anything Keefe say because we all saw the one time Keefe criticized the players in the media he had to walk it back a few days later so we know he has no, integrity or freedom of speech.
I would love to hear what Ryan ORielly thinks about his leadership.
Thirdly I would love to hear some examples of things that he does to lead.
We have all seen him on the ice back away when confronted, we have all seen him on the bench like a statue. The only time he ever shows emotion is when he scores.

 

[Arzak]

He has a high plus minus because he has spent the majority of his career on a superline on a consistent contender, playing primarily with the best defensive center of a generation, one of the best defensive wingers in the league, one of the best defenseman in the league, and an elite goalie, not because he is individually good defensively.

Yes, that's the narrative I've mentioned, and yet he was 34 this year, do you call any line he is on a superline?

Krejci and Zacha are good on the other hand that was like combine 6 M cap hit - far from super elite $11M linemates.

Marner elevates everyone around them narrative vs Pasta is such a massive benefactor of a superline. Forget the fact Marchand and Bergeron got their best offensive seasons well past their statistical prime.

 

[Arzak]

Yes, because Matthews is soft and has no fire, despite his 6-3, 220 pound frame. Could you imagine Stamkos trying to ragdoll Crosby, Toews, Giroux, McDavid, etc. like that with no pushback? Wouldn't happen. And they're a lot smaller than Matthews.

Just for comparison. Pasta delivers a hit and got speared by Wilson in retaliation.

 

[andora]

Just for comparison. Pasta delivers a hit and got speared by Wilson in retaliation.

Clifton should have just destroyed him with a sucker there

 

[Boxscore]

Just for comparison. Pasta delivers a hit and got speared by Wilson in retaliation.

Yes. I like Matthews, but he is softer than Kleenex. It is what it is. As a big man, he's Rick Nash level soft, maybe softer. But what he does have is a filthy set of paws and is without question one of the Leafs all-time greatest shooters. But he needs to score 50+ consistently like Ovechkin, and deliver in the playoffs, if he wants to be paid accordingly.

 

[Stephen]

Yes. I like Matthews, but he is softer than Kleenex. It is what it is. As a big man, he's Rick Nash level soft, maybe softer. But what he does have is a filthy set of paws and is without question one of the Leafs all-time greatest shooters. But he needs to score 50+ consistently like Ovechkin, and deliver in the playoffs, if he wants to be paid accordingly.

Matthews is an elite talent, an elite producer and is adaptable and can play a lot of different play styles. That's the good news. It's very good news. The bad news is Dubas wasted a number of years trying to support our stage fright guys with a bevvy of even smaller, less skilled, skilled guys going into hostile series. And by the time he got around to acquiring toughness, it was usually the window dressing variety, not on the same shift as our elite talent.

My hope is Treliving has a better sense of the game, better sense of group dynamics and this new brand of "snot" is really an understanding that every playoff series will have elements of a street fight and we need the well rounded support of players who will make every stand up a little taller and fend for themselves and teammates.

 

[Boxscore]

Matthews is an elite talent, an elite producer and is adaptable and can play a lot of different play styles. That's the good news. It's very good news. The bad news is Dubas wasted a number of years trying to support our stage fright guys with a bevvy of even smaller, less skilled, skilled guys going into hostile series. And by the time he got around to acquiring toughness, it was usually the window dressing variety, not on the same shift as our elite talent.

My hope is Treliving has a better sense of the game, better sense of group dynamics and this new brand of "snot" is really an understanding that every playoff series will have elements of a street fight and we need the well rounded support of players who will make every stand up a little taller and fend for themselves and teammates.

Pretty accurate, especially the Treliving vs. Dubas dynamic. But I don't consider Matthews an "elite producer". He broke 100 points once in his career and his PPG in the playoffs is an underwhelming 0.88. I think Matthews is an elite shooter and high-end producer but his production isn't elite like McDavid, Drasaitl, Kucherov, etc.

Not that they're similar in style, personality, or attributes, but Matthews is sort of like a modern day Pavel Bure -- an elite goal scorer (and high producer) who cannot carry a team on his shoulders. Although, despite his size and pretty face, Bure was more of an alpha than Matthews.

But I agree completely that Treliving attacked this offseason the way Dubas should have day one -- acquiring legit jam, tude, and character. We'll see what happens. If the Leafs fail, this falls completely on the core.

 

[IPS]

Again, you're basically telling people to listen to a Spezza quote and ignore their own eyes, Matthews public behavior, and lack of playoff success. It's not going to happen. We've all watched Sundin, Gilmour, Clark. And we've watched Matthews. We can recognize good leaders from poor ones.

Agreed 100%. Gilmour and Clark go without saying and Sundin was captain of team Sweden for what, an entire decade? Matthews has a lot to do before he's any sort of leader those guys were.

 

[notbias]

Just for comparison. Pasta delivers a hit and got speared by Wilson in retaliation.

Pasta never even dropped his stick... he wasn't serious about anything.

Not the best example... use Mac or Crosby at least. Pasta looked terrified.

 

[authentic]

Pretty accurate, especially the Treliving vs. Dubas dynamic. But I don't consider Matthews an "elite producer". He broke 100 points once in his career and his PPG in the playoffs is an underwhelming 0.88. I think Matthews is an elite shooter and high-end producer but his production isn't elite like McDavid, Drasaitl, Kucherov, etc.

Not that they're similar in style, personality, or attributes, but Matthews is sort of like a modern day Pavel Bure -- an elite goal scorer (and high producer) who cannot carry a team on his shoulders. Although, despite his size and pretty face, Bure was more of an alpha than Matthews.

But I agree completely that Treliving attacked this offseason the way Dubas should have day one -- acquiring legit jam, tude, and character. We'll see what happens. If the Leafs fail, this falls completely on the core.

Leading the league in goals and goals per game twice in a row, and for the entirety of your career in the NHL while playing less games, with much less ice time and especially powerplay time than the few ahead of him in points is elite production

 

[tuckerintensity]

We can recognize good leaders from poor ones.

The thing is, you can't.

 

[Boxscore]

The thing is, you can't.

Right. Because Matthews is Wendel Clark. 1 playoff win in 7 years with him leading the way. Please enlighten us on his savvy leadership qualities.

 

[tuckerintensity]

Right. Because Matthews is Wendel Clark. 1 playoff win in 7 years with him leading the way. Please enlighten us on his savvy leadership qualities.

I didn't say he was or he wasn't. Much like you, I don't know.

You speak to how he reacted to getting jumped and not winning enough, among other things. Others who claim they know he is will point to his attention to back checking or physical presence.

But none of you actually know, sorry to burst your bubble.

 

[Boxscore]

I didn't say he was or he wasn't. Much like you, I don't know.

You speak to how he reacted to getting jumped and not winning enough, among other things. Others who claim they know he is will point to his attention to back checking or physical presence.

But none of you actually know, sorry to burst your bubble.

This doesn't make much sense. How did fans know Wendel Clark, Dougie Gilmour, Bobby Clarke, Wayne Gretzky, Mario Lemieux, Steve Yzerman, and Mark Messier were great leaders? It was visible in their play, the way they handled their business, and the way they performed in the face of adversity, confrontation, and high stakes.

Let's say we want to claim we don't know about Matthews' covert, amazing, and inspirational pep talks in the room, the fact that we've blown Game 7s, lost to inferior talent, and have come up small for 7 years in the playoffs, is a clear indication that Matthews lacks the ability to lead. So does his significant PPG dip in the playoffs (0.88 PPG). If any situation proves what type of leader a player is, it's the playoffs, especially in a hockey market like Toronto.

The ^ are tangibles that we can easily and fairly observe, as well as post game pressers, contract dealings, public statements, and public appearances. In all cases, Matthews has shown zero leadership qualities. So, I guess we can pretend that he's secretly Jean Beliveau incarnate, but the results and his ho-hum approach to losing say otherwise.

All of that said, it's fine. Matthews isn't a leader. It's not in his DNA. The same could be said about some very talented players such as Tavares, Lindros, Nash, Thornton, etc. Not all players have the heart of a lion like Gilmour. But we need to at least be honest about it when we evaluate Matthews as a player after annual disappointments.

 

[authentic]

This doesn't make much sense. How did fans know Wendel Clark, Dougie Gilmour, Bobby Clarke, Wayne Gretzky, Mario Lemieux, Steve Yzerman, and Mark Messier were great leaders? It was visible in their play, the way they handled their business, and the way they performed in the face of adversity, confrontation, and high stakes.

Let's say we want to claim we don't know about Matthews' covert, amazing, and inspirational pep talks in the room, the fact that we've blown Game 7s, lost to inferior talent, and have come up small for 7 years in the playoffs, is a clear indication that Matthews lacks the ability to lead. So does his significant PPG dip in the playoffs (0.88 PPG). If any situation proves what type of leader a player is, it's the playoffs, especially in a hockey market like Toronto.

The ^ are tangibles that we can easily and fairly observe, as well as post game pressers, contract dealings, public statements, and public appearances. In all cases, Matthews has shown zero leadership qualities. So, I guess we can pretend that he's secretly Jean Beliveau incarnate, but the results and his ho-hum approach to losing say otherwise.

All of that said, it's fine. Matthews isn't a leader. It's not in his DNA. The same could be said about some very talented players such as Tavares, Lindros, Nash, Thornton, etc. Not all players have the heart of a lion like Gilmour. But we need to at least be honest about it when we evaluate Matthews as a player after annual disappointments.

You're basically just saying those players don't have heart because they haven't won a Cup though. Does Eichel suddenly have more heart than Matthews because his team won the Cup this year?

 

[Boxscore]

You're basically just saying those players don't have heart because they haven't won a Cup though. Does Eichel suddenly have more heart than Matthews because his team won the Cup this year?

I disagree completely. Ray Bourque didn't have a Cup until he was gifted a trade (against his wishes no less) to a stacked Avs team and I always thought he was an outstanding leader. Wendel Clark was one of the best leaders I ever saw and he has zero Cups. I've always thought Thornton was an uber talented but softish player without the "it factor" -- perhaps that's why the Bruins bailed on him early on. Certain players are like that. I think Matthews is and I also think a kid like Dougie Hamilton is. That "thing" just doesn't exist in them; you can see it isn't there. Call it killer instinct, hatred of losing, etc. Same with Tavares and Marner. For the Leafs, Rielly is the best leader on the team. But you can see it with players. Kids like the Tkachuk boys, MacKinnon, Toews, Crosby, etc. have the gene in spades.

One of my favorite players back in the day was Pierre Turgeon. Big, strong, insanely gifted, and could score in bunches for days. Matthews reminds me of him a lot, except 34 is a better shooter and Turgeon was an elite distributor. But they are very similar in their size, demeanor, and putty like attitude when it comes to going into battle.

As for Eichel, no, I don't think he's a leader. I think he's a very good player who benefitted tremendously from going to a team with a strong identity, structure, and leadership. All he had to do was deliver the offense and hold up his end of the bargain, which to his credit, he did. Do I think Eichel is more of a leader than Matthews? No. But I do think he was able to level up his game in the playoffs to the point where he almost won the Conn Smythe. If we're being honest, that's another flaw in Matthews game -- his 0.88 PPG in the playoffs and his nonchalant attitude after losing.

Sometimes teams can win without their best players being great leaders but it's rare. The last team to do it was maybe the Capitals, as I don't consider Ovechkin an elite leader per se, although he can take over games and he never passes up a chance to go to war.

 

[ACC1224]

You're basically just saying those players don't have heart because they haven't won a Cup though. Does Eichel suddenly have more heart than Matthews because his team won the Cup this year?

I don’t t think Eichel is looked at as the leader of that team.

 

[notdoneyet]

You just have to look at some of the off ice celebrations to understand matthews.

Consistently matthews is the odd man out.
Tavares marner reilly even muzzin are all in the pictures of weddings, and golf tournaments and benefits for charity.

Clearly not a team player by his attendance to such outings and not a team player to commit to 8 years to a team that has given him every whim and fancy.

If his win at all cost was as big as his ego we would have a couple of cups by now