More like they were demonized and replaced when they imposed a set of guidelines for conduct and made the players cry.
News Article: Auston Matthews - August 1st., Contract Crickets
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Mess
Global Moderator
Every dollar Treliving saves in this contract re-signing of not overspending helps the Leafs.
Can't undo the damage Dubas inflicted, but a new real GM doesn't need to compound the problem.
Auston is a exception perhaps of a little leniency being a franchise #1C to build around, but overpay Willy and Mitch is bad for business.
TMLBlueandWhite
Go Leafs Go
- Feb 2, 2023
- 2,191
- 2,270
They've really put themselves into a pickle here.
Dubas made sure to give the fans a pig in a poke on his way out the door. Matthews and Marner have full NMC's. They hold all the leverage.
The team can't risk the possibility of either of those two making it to free agency.
The only one that can be traded now is Nylander. Which I expect he will be. Hopefully for a proper 1RHD.
In two years Tavares finally comes off the books.
Gary Nylund
Registered User
- Oct 10, 2013
- 31,497
- 25,131
Yup. Should have traded Marner while they could, now we're in a crappy spot.
That doesn't mean we're forced to give them both whatever they ask for though as if they ask for too much, it's hard to see how we can compete for the cup. Overpay one franchise guy, maybe you can work with that but overpay two guys who both want the moon, not so sure that can work so might be better to let Marner walk. Or maybe if we say no to his demands he'll agree to be traded and we at least get something for him.
Of course it could be that as long as we keep selling all those tickets, playoff success isn't that big a priority so give them both whatever they want. Sucks for those of us who want to win the cup but what can you do, that's life in the big city I guess.
therealkoho
Him/Leaf/fan
WAYNE GRETZKY INTERVIEW | Leafs Morning Take - July 10th
The Leafs Nation
July 10, 2023
Did you know Wayne Gretzky was almost a Leaf in 1996? Well, now you do.
Nick Alberga & Jay Rosehill had a chance to spend some time with The Great One. Not only did they talk some golf and Michael Jordan but they also dove into the hot-button topics in Leafs Nation right now. Gretzky shared his thoughts on Toronto's offseason as well as the Auston Matthews/William Nylander contract situations.
Wayne Gretzky delivers tough reality to Maple Leafs stars
They may not like The Great One's advice.
Well, listen - there's only so much money to go around, right? That's where Brad Treliving has to sit down and figure out with his coaching staff, 'how does everybody fit in here?'. Obviously, you don't want to lose Auston Matthews. He's one of the top 3 or 4 players in the National Hockey League... I don't know what Brad's plan is, but obviously, you want to get one of the elite players ever to play the game re-signed.
In the old days, you just kept everybody, right? And you look at LA, they won two Stanley Cups. They had to rebuild because of the salary cap... Chicago won 3 Cups and basically had to tear down the organization, and now they're rebuilding.
I hope that players make as much money as they can. I hope they earn all the money that they make, but let's be honest; Connor [McDavid] is probably signed to a discount now. Auston [Matthews] is probably going to sign for a little bit of a discount because, at the end of the day, after you've played 7 or 8 years, it's no fun being knocked out in the 1st round or 2nd round.
Unfortunately for guys like Connor [McDavid] and Auston [Matthews] and Nathan MacKinnon - you've gotta leave some money in the pot because you need some teammates to be able to win a Stanley Cup, right?
It comes down to personal choice. Do I take all the money I can and basically maybe get knocked out in the 1st round? Or do I take a little bit less and show the team and show the organization that I want to win a Stanley Cup?
MCR74
Registered User
- Nov 11, 2022
- 4,132
- 5,008
WAYNE GRETZKY INTERVIEW | Leafs Morning Take - July 10th
The Leafs Nation
July 10, 2023
Did you know Wayne Gretzky was almost a Leaf in 1996? Well, now you do.
Nick Alberga & Jay Rosehill had a chance to spend some time with The Great One. Not only did they talk some golf and Michael Jordan but they also dove into the hot-button topics in Leafs Nation right now. Gretzky shared his thoughts on Toronto's offseason as well as the Auston Matthews/William Nylander contract situations.
Wayne Gretzky delivers tough reality to Maple Leafs stars
They may not like The Great One's advice.www.hockeyfeed.com
Well, listen - there's only so much money to go around, right? That's where Brad Treliving has to sit down and figure out with his coaching staff, 'how does everybody fit in here?'. Obviously, you don't want to lose Auston Matthews. He's one of the top 3 or 4 players in the National Hockey League... I don't know what Brad's plan is, but obviously, you want to get one of the elite players ever to play the game re-signed.
In the old days, you just kept everybody, right? And you look at LA, they won two Stanley Cups. They had to rebuild because of the salary cap... Chicago won 3 Cups and basically had to tear down the organization, and now they're rebuilding.
I hope that players make as much money as they can. I hope they earn all the money that they make, but let's be honest; Connor [McDavid] is probably signed to a discount now. Auston [Matthews] is probably going to sign for a little bit of a discount because, at the end of the day, after you've played 7 or 8 years, it's no fun being knocked out in the 1st round or 2nd round.
Unfortunately for guys like Connor [McDavid] and Auston [Matthews] and Nathan MacKinnon - you've gotta leave some money in the pot because you need some teammates to be able to win a Stanley Cup, right?
It comes down to personal choice. Do I take all the money I can and basically maybe get knocked out in the 1st round? Or do I take a little bit less and show the team and show the organization that I want to win a Stanley Cup?
Easy for Wayne to say. He's not making the decisions here.
tuckerintensity
armed with will and determination
- Jul 16, 2022
- 328
- 414
WAYNE GRETZKY INTERVIEW | Leafs Morning Take - July 10th
The Leafs Nation
July 10, 2023
Did you know Wayne Gretzky was almost a Leaf in 1996? Well, now you do.
Nick Alberga & Jay Rosehill had a chance to spend some time with The Great One. Not only did they talk some golf and Michael Jordan but they also dove into the hot-button topics in Leafs Nation right now. Gretzky shared his thoughts on Toronto's offseason as well as the Auston Matthews/William Nylander contract situations.
Wayne Gretzky delivers tough reality to Maple Leafs stars
They may not like The Great One's advice.
Well, listen - there's only so much money to go around, right? That's where Brad Treliving has to sit down and figure out with his coaching staff, 'how does everybody fit in here?'. Obviously, you don't want to lose Auston Matthews. He's one of the top 3 or 4 players in the National Hockey League... I don't know what Brad's plan is, but obviously, you want to get one of the elite players ever to play the game re-signed.
In the old days, you just kept everybody, right? And you look at LA, they won two Stanley Cups. They had to rebuild because of the salary cap... Chicago won 3 Cups and basically had to tear down the organization, and now they're rebuilding.
I hope that players make as much money as they can. I hope they earn all the money that they make, but let's be honest; Connor [McDavid] is probably signed to a discount now. Auston [Matthews] is probably going to sign for a little bit of a discount because, at the end of the day, after you've played 7 or 8 years, it's no fun being knocked out in the 1st round or 2nd round.
Unfortunately for guys like Connor [McDavid] and Auston [Matthews] and Nathan MacKinnon - you've gotta leave some money in the pot because you need some teammates to be able to win a Stanley Cup, right?
It comes down to personal choice. Do I take all the money I can and basically maybe get knocked out in the 1st round? Or do I take a little bit less and show the team and show the organization that I want to win a Stanley Cup?
Neither of those other two guys "left money in the pot", they took their top dollar.
- Jan 22, 2007
- 14,721
- 7,858
No, it's easy for Wayne to say because it's quite obvious and simple. In a hard cap league, star players take less if they want to win, and don't if they can care less about winning. Simple. End of story.
Incorrect.
Arzak
Registered User
- Mar 27, 2019
- 2,225
- 2,013
That much is clear. It should be noted they tried, Babcock was too harsh not hurt Marners feeling ( too late to change his soccer habits now), Lou apparently crossed the line, making them shave and wear suits!
It's these little things, sounds petty but if you can't get them to wear a suit for 30min once a week, how can you change or install any cultures.
Hated Babcock, hated why he left even more.
tuckerintensity
armed with will and determination
- Jul 16, 2022
- 328
- 414
It's not though, but I know that doesn't fit the narrative. MacKinnon makes more than McDavid, there's no world where that in a a vacuum makes sense, but seemingly everyone wants Matthews to take less than either of them because he's not (allegedly) better than either of them.
They didn't sign team friendly contracts, they signed deals that made them the top paid player at the time. Something many people here are chastising Matthews for seeking (without knowledge of what he's actually seeking).
But hey, I don't expect logic, reason, or factual evidence to stop Leafs Nation from their bullkaka.
Mess
Global Moderator
Wayne Gretzky delivers tough reality to Maple Leafs stars
They may not like The Great One's advice."Well, listen - there's only so much money to go around, right? That's where Brad Treliving has to sit down and figure out with his coaching staff, 'how does everybody fit in here?'. Obviously, you don't want to lose Auston Matthews. He's one of the top 3 or 4 players in the National Hockey League... I don't know what Brad's plan is, but obviously, you want to get one of the elite players ever to play the game re-signed.
In the old days, you just kept everybody, right? And you look at LA, they won two Stanley Cups. They had to rebuild because of the salary cap... Chicago won 3 Cups and basically had to tear down the organization, and now they're rebuilding.
I hope that players make as much money as they can. I hope they earn all the money that they make, but let's be honest; Connor [McDavid] is probably signed to a discount now. Auston [Matthews] is probably going to sign for a little bit of a discount because, at the end of the day, after you've played 7 or 8 years, it's no fun being knocked out in the 1st round or 2nd round.
Unfortunately for guys like Connor [McDavid] and Auston [Matthews] and Nathan MacKinnon - you've gotta leave some money in the pot because you need some teammates to be able to win a Stanley Cup, right?
It comes down to personal choice. Do I take all the money I can and basically maybe get knocked out in the 1st round? Or do I take a little bit less and show the team and show the organization that I want to win a Stanley Cup? - Wayne Gretzky on the idea of Auston Matthews and other star players needing to take less to help the team win."
Anything can happen. Wayne Gretzky got traded after 3 cups.If Mathews refuses to sign for more than 3 years we have a major problem. If some team then makes us a crazy offer, we would have to look at it. We never really know Mathews real intentions and he wont make them public in a place like Toronto after what happened to Sundin.
usernamezrhardtodo
Registered User
- Mar 26, 2014
- 2,503
- 3,070
It's not like we are asking a guy making $2.4M to make only $1.7M and it makes a rather big difference. We are asking them to leave at most 10% of their deal for the team. If you have a hard time making due in life because you had to give up 1.3M of your 14M deal...then you will be another Lenny Dykstra...look him up young folk...
ULF_55
Moderator
4:37 mark
Will make him the highest paid player 3-5 year term.
Doesn't think they have to wait long on the signing.
At 6:15 mark
Doesn't think it depends on Nylander.
Sounds like he doesn't think Nylander will sign ... so walks to free agency?
ULF_55
Moderator
The roster didn't amount to anything post season with Matthews making north of $11 million.
And some want to make it $1-3 million worse..
That extra money is going to cut into the depth that's need when no-shows re-appear.
Why not just try trade him for some assets and redistribute some cap-space to positions that actually need it, depth and defence.
People need to accept that 3 players getting paid TOP 10 cap hits hasn't delivered anything in the post season where the Big/Important trophies are won.
And some want to make it $1-3 million worse..
That extra money is going to cut into the depth that's need when no-shows re-appear.
Why not just try trade him for some assets and redistribute some cap-space to positions that actually need it, depth and defence.
People need to accept that 3 players getting paid TOP 10 cap hits hasn't delivered anything in the post season where the Big/Important trophies are won.
Martin Skoula
Registered User
- Oct 18, 2017
- 12,390
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This roster didn’t amount to anything post season with depth like Kerfoot making 3.5 million.
And some want to make it 1-3 million worse..
That extra money is going to cut into our “players that play more than 13 minutes a night budget.
I’d go on but you get it.
Please show me where depth quality is correlated with money spent on that depth. Fixing our depth is more than just trading Matthews for cap space and overpaying grinders that rode a hot shooting % for a series or two.
Everyone praises Vegas’ depth, let’s see how much they actually spent on it:
Forward expenses outside the top 6:
Roy 3
Stephenson 2.75
Howden 1.5
Carrier 1.4
Kolesar 1.4
Amadio 0.76
So just under 11 mil for their bottom 6
How is this different (from a cap perspective) from:
Kerfoot 3.5
Jarnkrok 2.1
Kampf 1.6
Acciari 1.25
Lafferty 1.15
ZAR/Engvall/Simmonds/McMann/Holmberg at a mil or less
We spent more than them, we actually have more cap space for forward depth available than they do if we redistribute it to better players than we have in the past.
Let’s see the defense, outside of their top 2 they spend:
1 of Martinez/Theodore at 5.2
McNabb at 2.85
Whitecloud at 2.75
Hague at 2.3
Hutton at 0.85
Vs
Holl at 2
Liljegren at 1.4
McCabe at 2
Whichever of Schenn/Gio at under a mil
The glaring difference is us missing a Martinez tier 5+ mil D which we had but got broken down. Muzzin’s 5.6 mil LTIR wasn’t able to be used until he got injured in October, otherwise we would have almost the same spend on our D depth with just over a mil in difference.
It’s incredibly obvious the issue with our depth isn’t the amount of money we’re spending on it, we spend more on it than most cup winners and contenders, even the ones that get praised for the quality of their depth.
Trade Matthews if you don’t think he has what it takes to win in general, but trade him for premium star pieces or futures, not so you can give 5x5 to the next Coleman/Goodrow.
ULF_55
Moderator
Thanks, you nailed it.
The problem is getting 1 goal against the Panthers from Tavares, Matthews and marner combined.
Martin Skoula
Registered User
- Oct 18, 2017
- 12,390
- 17,466
Ok so it’s paying the wrong stars 11 mil rather than the fact that we’re paying people 11 mil and the amount of cap available for depth has nothing to do with anything. The solution is trading our stars for ones that perform in the playoffs and trading Matthews so we can pay our depth more is insanity.
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